The Peoples in Revelation 7:9

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all the tribes, races, nations, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

As this verse does not mention the location, any belief as to where it takes place, from just verse 7, is purely an assumption.
However, from the context we see that chapter is telling about earthly events, the first 3 verses set the scene. The whole Book of Revelation is to tell us about God's plans for His people living on earth.
How can we be sure that standing before the Throne does not mean that this vast multitude is in heaven?

1/ The Greek word translated 'before' - enopion; literally means in the sight of and is used several times about humans on earth, who are before or in the sight of the Lord. 1 Tim 2:14, Romans 14:22, Galatians 1:20, Acts 7:56

2/ Ezekiel 1:1, was standing by the river Kebar, when he saw the entire heavenly host in the Throne room of God.

3/ The Israelites in the desert came before the Lord, Exodus 16:9. They did not go to heaven then.

4/ When the Son of man comes in all His glory, He will sit on His glorious Throne, with all the nations gathered before Him..... Matthew 25:31-32 All the nations don't go to heaven!

5/ Revelation 14:1 plainly says that Jesus is on Mt Zion when He selects the 144,000 out of all the faithful Christians gathered in Jerusalem.

6/ Heaven, God's dwelling place, is a Spiritual concept, in another dimension to our physical existence. It is, therefore, anywhere and everywhere to us.

7/ Last but not least, are the many prophesies that tell us how we Christians will be gathered and settled into all of the holy Land. WE are the people referred to in Ezekiel 38:8b That is our destiny and our great privilege, to be the people God always wanted there, but has never had; His witnesses and His Light to the nations. John 15:27, Matthew 5:14-16.

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Our Future is Revealed to us:
It is obvious to anyone who looks at the situation in the Middle East, that there is nothing man can do that will resolve the critical issues there.

God will use people’s actions and His creation to achieve His purposes, as in the past, so according to Bible prophesy: at the point of attack onto Israel, God will intervene with an explosion of the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3, that will affect all the world, but in particular all the area of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:43, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-7

It is clear, from all the prophesied graphic descriptions: that this will be a terrible devastation by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis and the result will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East. Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18
This event is the great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6, Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 1: 14-18 & 3:8, Amos 1 & 2:1-5
Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace. All evildoers will be as stubble.
Isaiah 66:15-16 The Lord coming in fire... many will be slain by Him.
Isaiah 9:18 The land is scorched by the Lord, the people are fuel for the fire.
Ezekiel 29:45-48, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7 It is also the Sixth Seal judgement as described in Revelation 6:12-17, Jeremiah 4:25-29, Isaiah 2:12-22
Many prophecies tell of the final judgement of Judah: Jeremiah 7:20 I will pour out My anger on Judah, man and beast, trees and crops, they will burn unquenched. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14

Psalm 83:1-18 describes very well how the State of Israel’s enemies plot against them, and what will happen to them. Micah 4:11-12 A remnant of Jewish Christians will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 4:3, Isaiah 6:11-12, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27

After that: Ezekiel 36:8 But you, Land of Israel, put forth your branches and yield fruit for My people, Righteous Israelites, for their homecoming is near. Isaiah 35:1-10, Zechariah 8:11-13, Amos 9:13-15, Romans 9:24-26
All of the Lord’s people will be gathered into the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31 The Lord will then judge His people and only the righteous Christian believers will settle in the Promised Land. They will establish the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:7-14

Ezekiel 20:35-38 I shall make you pass under the rod of Judgement…..those who revolt and rebel will not enter the holy Land.
Isaiah 1:25-28.Once again, I shall act against you, to purge away all your impurities. Gods people, [the Christian Israelites of God, Galatians 6:14-16], will settle and become prosperous in a blessed and fertile land. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31

Ezekiel 39:25-29 The Lord says; now I shall restore the fortunes of Jacob. [Who are now spiritual Israel, people qualified by faith, not by ethnicity. Galatians 3:26-29]
They will forget their shame and unfaithfulness when they live once more safely in their inheritance. [Romans 8:14-17] When I gather them from all the lands, they will be an example to the nations of My Holiness. They will acknowledge Me as their God, when they all live in their heritage; the Promised Land. I will no longer hide Myself from them, I who have poured out My Spirit upon them. Isaiah 24:23, 2 Thess 1:10

After a few years, God will motivate the leader of a Northern alliance to prepare for war and attack Israel. God will destroy the entire army with fire, earthquakes and causing them to fight each other:- Ezekiel 38 & 39: the Gog/Magog attack.
Joel 2:20 I shall remove the Northern peril far from you and banish them into the desert. Half of the army: by the Mediterranean and the other half by the Dead Sea. The stench and foul smell from them will rise up. He has done great things!
This He will do in order to; Ezekiel 39:21-22 ... display My glory to the nations... From that day forward, the Israelites will know that I am the Lord their God

Note; that the Lord will make Himself known by His actions to His righteous people, and to the world, but not by His presence until His Return in glory at the commencement of His Millennial reign. After the armies of this Northern alliance are destroyed, the people of Beulah [Isaiah 62:1-5] will send out teams to collect the dead. They will be buried in the valley of Wadi al Mawjib, East of the Dead Sea. This will take seven months, then seven years is needed to finally clear up all the debris of the army. This tremendous defeat of a very large and well equipped army, will have dramatic repercussions. On top of the already huge disruptions caused by the previous worldwide devastation – food and oil shortages, economic crisis, refugee problems, etc. The world’s leaders will meet and the most logical way to address all the issues, is to form a One World government. Daniel 7:23-24, Rev 17:12-13. Initially ten rulers will share the authority, but after a short while, they will confer their power onto one man. The President of this World Alliance will be a charismatic and strong leader, he will quickly take dictatorial powers over it. Daniel 11:21

Meanwhile, in Jerusalem, construction of the Third Temple will be completed, Zechariah 6:15, Revelation 11:1, and the Shekinah glory of God will enter it. Ezekiel 43:1-5

12,000 missionaries will be selected from each of the 12 divisions of Beulah, settled roughly in accordance with the ancient boundaries and they will go out in pairs to every people group in the world to preach the gospel of the Kingdom to come. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 7:3-8 As was done previously: Luke 10:1-10
Beulah will not join the One World government, but in order to maintain peaceful relations, Beulah will sign a seven year peace treaty with them. Daniel 9:27

Sometime before this, the President of the OWG will be assassinated, but his body will be taken over by Satan. Revelation 13:3-4 At the mid point of the seven years, he will come in force to Beulah, Zechariah 14:1-2, and establish worship of himself in the Temple. Matthew 24:15 So, when you see the ‘abomination of desolation’ standing in the Holy place as prophesied by Daniel 7:25…
He will defy the Most High and will persecute the holy people of God. They will be in his power for 3½ years. Rev 13:9-10 & 12:17.

In Revelation 12:14, it says that there will be a place of safety for some of Gods people, those who stood firm in their faith. Daniel 11:32b, Matthew 24:15-21.
During this last 3½ year period, the Great Tribulation of the Seven Trumpets and the Seven Bowls of God’s wrath poured upon the earth will cause terrible destruction and deaths to the ungodly peoples. Matthew 24:21-22, Revelation 16:11

It all culminates in the Battle of Armageddon – Revelation 16:16. That is when the Lord Jesus will return to the earth in His glory and destroys those armies in His mighty power. Rev. 19:15 & Zechariah 14:3-5. Lucifer (Satan) will be chained and imprisoned and Jesus will rule the world for 1000 years. Then, Satan will be released for a short time. He will seduce the nations and will muster them for war, a vast army from all around the world. They will lay siege to Gods City. Fire comes down from heaven and cremates them all. Satan is destroyed forever; Revelation 20:7-9.

After that is the Great White Throne judgement of all people and the angels. Revelation 20:11-14, Daniel 7:9-10
THEN comes Eternity, a Spiritual realm where all who enter it will be immortal and will live with God forever.

The original plan of God was to have a people who would be His witnesses and be His Light to the nations. Ancient Israel failed in this mission, they were sent into exile, but only for a decreed time of punishment. Ezekiel 4:4-5

There are two Israelite groups: Israel and Judah. Judah have returned to a portion of the holy Land, but in unbelief and Israel remains scattered among the nations. Also many gentile people have been grafted into Israel through the New Covenant of Jesus.
Now the exile of Israel is over, but they; now every true righteous Christian person, Galatians 3:26-29, cannot go to their heritage, as all the holy Land is inhabited by atheists, Muslims and people with all kinds of ungodly beliefs and false religions.

What is God to do?
The same as He did in Noah's day: wipe them out, only this time by fire from the sun. Isaiah 66:5-17, Isaiah 30:26-39, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17 The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, as prophesied in over 100 Bible passages: the means, the effects and the results.

This Day will be triggered by the commencement of an attack on Israel, from all directions by a confederation of nations and entities. Psalms 83:1-18 Iran will prepare their nuke missiles, Isaiah 22:6, but at the moment of firing, the Lord will destroy them by the powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from an explosion of the sun. Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 7:12-16, Jeremiah 49:35, Ezekiel 32:24-25, Deuteronomy 32:22
24 hours later the main mass of this Coronal Mass Ejection will arrive on earth. It will mainly affect the Middle East region killing all life except a remnant of the Jews in Jerusalem. Zephaniah 1:18, Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3
The rest of the world will see it coming and will hide among the rocks and in caves, Isaiah 2:21, Luke 23:30, Revelation 6:16, so most will survive.
Luke 21:25-26 ...signs will appear in the sun....people will stand helpless, not knowing which way to turn....They will faint with terror as they see what is coming. Luke 21:28 When you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near.

The Return of Jesus, mentioned in verse 27 happens later, as we know from the sequence in Revelation. Jesus does not Return in fire.

Bob Crowley said:

The Bible says absolutely nothing about rockets to the moon, computers, robots, AI, heavier than air flight, quantum telecommunication and computers, and a whole host of other things.

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That's because it's all irrelevant to our future.

Bob Crowley said:

To go looking at some ancient texts and think they're going to supply a detailed view of precisely what God intends gives a very limited outlook.

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Limited to the truth!
Ideas, theories and speculations are just a waste of time and lead people down endless rabbit trails.

Bob Crowley said:

I don't know what percentage of all the people who will ever live will make it to heaven, but even a small persentage would be a lot. They're not all going to fit on a flat earthly plane. As far as I'm concerned it's a heavenly vision, not an eath bound one.

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Not one person goes to live in heaven. After the Millennium reign of King Jesus, God will come to dwell with mankind on the new earth. Rev 21
Flat earth? Interestingly, the new Spiritual earth may well be flat.

Bob Crowley said:

If God does drive us out into the universe, and the population expands even furthter (after an extremely difficult initial establishment), the final number will be stupendous, hence "no one could count all the people".

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Living anywhere other than planet earth is a virtual impossibility.
The Biblical use of; 'no one could count the people', is just a metaphor for a very large group.

Thanks for your reply.
All of the 117 billion people, plus those born during the Millennium, will stand before God on His Great White Throne. Obviously, a large number of people will experience the New Earth; Revelation 22:1-5

Jeff Saunders said:

If not one person goes to live in heaven, why does Phil 3:20 say our citizenship is in heaven? Are we citizens of a place we can not live?

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In a word: Yes.
Our names are Written in the Book of Life, which is enough to assure us a place in the new earth to come after the final Judgment. Before then, we are still mortal, earth creatures.
What people seem unable to understand is that heaven; Gods place, is a Spiritual entity, where flesh cannot be. We will still be mortal humans during the Millennium, Isaiah 65:20, only after the final Judgment, will anyone - including Moses and David, be given immortality. Isn't that logical and sensible?

Jeff Saunders said:

Matt 18:4 Whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
These sure do sound like Christians will be in heaven.

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Sheer wishful thinking and a doctrine of failure to really understand the scriptures you quote.
What God actually does plan for His peoples on earth, is far better and more rewarding than going to heaven; to do what?
The other unanswerable point of a 'rapture to heaven', is that it necessitates for God to change His mind. Malachi 3:6....He doesn't.
People have been martyred for their faith ever since Stephen was killed. Expect the same when the future Anti-Christ rules the world. Revelation 13

Jeff Saunders said:

We get spiritual bodies just like Jesus.

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Paul, or any of the Apostles, never say when that will happen. But Jesus does in His Revelation; AFTER the Millennium and the GWT Judgment; Rev 20:11-15

Jeff Saunders said:

We get our glorified body at the time of the resurrection and that is pre-millennial, we rule and reign with Jesus during the millennium.

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This fanciful idea is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20:4-6.
ONLY the martyrs killed during the 3 1/2 year of Satanic world control, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns and they will rule and reign with Him.

The conditions to join your 'club', are - Get your head chopped off, for keeping strong in your faith, during very tough times. Rev 13:15

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Thes 4 13-18 When Jesus returns we get our new glorified body, this is not after the millennium, but pre. Most of the early church agree with that.

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But that is not what the Bible teaches. Isaiah 65:20 and other Prophesies, prove that the People in the Millennium are mortal humans.

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Cor 15:52 In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye,... the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead... be raised imperishable and we will be changed. This is not at the end of the millennium but before.
This is historic early church teaching. Your idea is not what the early church taught.

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The Early Church Fathers were not infallible. They had many different ideas, as we still do today.
Pauls Prophecy in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is about what will happen after the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
Proved by 1 Cor 15:54b-55, being parallel to Revelation 21:4: - Death will be no more and immortality conferred ONLY AFTER the Millennium.

What you like to call 'my idea', is just a correct rendition of scriptural truths. That many have been taught and believe other theories and doctrines, is their fault for failing to search the scriptures properly.

Jeff Saunders said:

The pre-trib view of the end times explains this the best I have seen, here is the readers digest view-
Jesus comes and takes his church ( all those who have followed him by whatever standard he has) , the Jews have a veil covering their eyes until the fulness of the Gentiles is complete,( the rapture )

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You simply miss out all the Prophesies which plainly say how Judah will be Judged and punished and only a remnant will survive. Zephaniah 1:1-18, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27, and in Isaiah 29:1-4, we see how a few will survive in Jerusalem.
A 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is a shockingly bad fable, that is never stated in the Bible. Believe it at your risk of being found deceived.

1 Corinthians 15:50-56, must be for after the GWT Judgment, as it is only then that Death is no more and Eternity for those whose names are found in the Book of Life.

Jeff Saunders said:

I wonder if it is not you that is failing to search the scriptures from the perspective of those who understood the language and culture and eastern thought process, that we do not understand reading a English translation with 20th century minds and thinking we understood what was originally written, this is why studies of the writings of the early church fathers is important, yes they are not infallible, but neither were those men who translated the Scriptures into English infallible, they may have had an agenda.

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I have read many ECF writings and do not find their thoughts and guesswork to be of much help in Prophecy matters. They, and modern scholars cannot have known the truths of Gods Plans; Matthew 11:25-26

I repeat: the vast multitude in Rev 7:9; are the Christian peoples, all assigned to one of twelve groups, named after Jacobs sons. 12k are selected out from each group to go out to the world and proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:18b-21

2 Timothy 3:1-17 Remember, the final age of this world is to be a time of turmoil! People will love nothing but self and money, they will be boastful, arrogant and abusive. Disobedient to parents, devoid of gratitude, piety and natural affection. They will be uncontrolled in their violence, hating all goodness, perfidious, foolhardy and self important. They will love their pleasures more than their God. While preserving the outward form of religion, actually, they deny its power. Have nothing to do with them.

Persecution will indeed come to everyone who wants to lead a godly life as a follower of Christ Jesus, while evil doers and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But for your part, stand by the truths you have learned and are assured of, because you are familiar with the Holy scriptures which have the power to make you wise and lead you into salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All inspired scripture has its use for teaching the truth, refuting error and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be capable and equipped for good works of every kind.

2 Timothy 4:1-5 Before God and before Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, I charge you solemnly by His coming appearing and Kingdom reign – to proclaim the gospel, press it home, in season and out of season, use argument, reproof and encouragement with all the patience that teaching requires.

For the time will come when people will not stand sound teaching, but each will follow his own ideas and will gather crowds to hear whatever they fancy. They will stop their ears to the truth and turn aside to myths.
But, you must keep your head whatever happens; put up with hardship, work to spread the gospel and discharge all the duties of your calling.

1 Timothy 1:3-11 I asked you, Timothy, to instruct certain people to refrain from teaching erroneous doctrines and devoting themselves to interminable myths and fruitless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculations that do nothing to further God’s plan for humans, that works through faith in Him. The goal of this Command is love, which comes from a pure heart, a good conscience and a genuine faith. Through a lack of these attributes, some have gone astray into a plethora of theories and false notions. They set out to be teachers of the Law, but they do not know what they are talking about or the true meaning of the Word.
We all know the Law is a good thing, if it is used properly, it’s there not just for the righteous, but is necessary for the lawless and sinful, the godless and worldly, the murderers and fornicators, perverts, liars, perjurers, in fact all whose behaviour flouts the glorious Gospel of God.

The end of this era, will be a time of turmoil, Paul may be referring to the Tribulation period, but we have for the last 100 years experienced many wars and disasters. Matt. 24:6-8

Persecution will come to everyone who follows Jesus, Hebrews 12:8 This totally refutes any ‘pre-trib/wrath rapture to heaven’. 1 Peter 4:12 However, the faithful Christians will be taken to a place of safety during the Great Tribulation. Revelation 12:14

While preserving the outward form of religion, they deny its power. Many, so called Christian Churches have deviated so far from the true Gospel, they are no longer a Church of God. Isaiah 58, Jude 1-25, Revelation 3:14-22

The time has come when people refuse sound teaching, they believe false theories, ignore, allegorise or place Bible prophecy into past history, so have no proper understanding of what will happen soon. Isaiah:29:13-14, Isaiah 30:8-11

False teachers are more prevalent than ever, promoting their erroneous doctrines. Ministries, TV shows, books, etc, on the end times are a big business. Their judgement comes, false teachers will all meet their end on the Day of wrath. Jer.14:13-16, Isaiah 56:9-12
Ref: logostelos.info

Jeff Saunders said:

I don't remember your answer for this- You said " God's place is a Spiritual entity, where flesh cannot be." how is Jesus going to sit on his throne at the Fathers right hand, if flesh can't enter into heaven.? Do you believe Jesus was only flesh till he went back into heaven?

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Jesus was a Spiritual being with the Father, Proverbs 8:22-31 before He became flesh, John 1:1-5
He returned to the Spiritual at His Ascension.
After Jesus Returns, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords; it seems He will remain Spiritual, but visible, as He can be now and will be before the glorious Return, - 2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1

Jeff Saunders said:

When Jesus became flesh it was a permanent transition it was not temporary.

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We cannot make such definitive assertions.
John 20:17a, - was Jesus flesh then?

The subject of this thread is: who are the vast multitude in Revelation 7:9.
I say they are the living Christian peoples, gathered into the Holy Land soon after the worldwide disaster of the Sixth Seal. Which will clear and cleanse all of the Holy Land area. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, +
Proved by how it is that later, the Anti-Christ leader of the rest of the world, will conquer us. Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:5-7

This truth totally refutes any fanciful ideas of a 'rapture to heaven', or 'escape' from any trials and testing.
But what most fail to see, is how the Lord Promises to protect His own peoples, as they [we faithful Christians] live in peace and prosperity in their heritage. Confirmed by Hosea 1:10-11 and Romans 9:24-26......in the very same place as ancient Israel was exiled from.
John sees us there, as Jesus is revealed to us and selects the 144K out from the 12 divisions of the new nation of Beulah. Rev 14:1-5