Not only that, but God has foreknown absolutely everything from eternity past and has graciously predestined His people according to the council of His own will.
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom
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JulieB67
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So, what Christ is wasting his time with the sermon on the mount? He is literally telling us we have a choice. Or do you conveniently choose to ignore his teachings so you can cling to your doctrine about all of our demons inside who somehow over power the Holy Spirit for the most part so we can't make those choices Christ himself declares we must make
Who are we to believe Christ or you? He tells us to deny ourselves daily and pick up the cross. And it is a daily constant process because we are in the flesh. No one will ever be perfect but we are to make choices concerning his teachings and what we must do.
These are choices -
Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house up a rock."
Matthew 7:26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:"
Both are choices taught by Christ.
What was one of the sayings he's talking about?
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven."
That is a choice on our part to doeth the will of the Father. As Christ states we can do or not do them. So yes, choices can and should be made. And after true repentance the choice becomes much easier, especially as one matures as a Christian.
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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Freewillers always think they have a choice. And as usual your position only plays 1 side of a 2 sided record.
And that is just your spin, unable to discern the other working let alone define and divide yourSELF from IT.
Point being, we, like Paul still have evil present with us whenever and regardless if when we do good or make good decisions.
Your position continually acts like the alternative isn't present or that good decisions outweigh or eliminate the bad and to compund the issue your position seeks to justify the whole package.
That just doesn't happen.
Phony question to start with. I believe every Word of God applies to everyone. YES even the BAD Words. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3
Now who's the unbeliever?
Well simple logic should be telling you by now thete are things to DENY
Your position can blame the flesh but never our adversary. Cat got yer tongue?
Not in this life, no. See how easy that was? Yet you want to justify the entirety of yourself based on imperfect decisions and condemn to hell everyone else who struggke under the same burdens. Bleech on that noise.
You really should go back and read the OTHER parts if thise so called choices and realize THEY APPLY to you as well.
You just read half the Words.
Point always is, evil lawless thoughts defile everyone. You are not an exception or an exclusion from the facts. Mark 7:21-23
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JulieB67
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Wow, you really still love to ignore plain scripture don't you?
So you do believe Christ is wasting his time telling us we have a choice, gotcha.
No, my position is that making the choice Christ stated we can make doesn't make it a "works" gospel. That is where you're wrong and I posted scripture to prove that. He stated there were two choices which you completely ignored.
Apparently not.
Being in the flesh, yes. Which is why with simple logic Christ tells us it's a "daily" thing. But again, that's another choice he tells one to do. Again, you must be thinking Christ and others are wasting their time telling us these things. And you claim to believe every word. I have never once stated anyone will ever be sinless and yet you constantly claim no one can make choices which is the very opposite of what Christ is telling us. So who is one sided and can't see that one has choices?
We can certainly and will make both good and bad choices throughout our lifetimes but you're basically stating if we make this choice-
Matthew 7:24 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house up a rock."
Then we are promoting a works based gospel. Again, who to believe, you or Christ, who tells us we are wise if we following his teachings especially on doing the will of the Father. What is that will? Loving him with all of our heart, soul and mind (something you apparently think that Satan has full reign of and not the Holy Spirit) and loving our neighbor as ourselves which we know we can hang the whole law on.
You accuse others of seeing only one side but can't or won't see that is basically what you are doing when you ignore so much of the Word telling us the make choices.
Another teaching from Paul that you must overlook and ignore to cling to your doctrine- Yes, he tells us that the spirit and the flesh are at war with each other that's why he gives us a choice-
Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
That's a choice because yes, he tells us right afterwards why we should "Walk" in that Spirit-
Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."
Your side believes only 17 applies and therefore we can omit verse 16. Because we can't make that choice because if we choose to "Walk in the Spirit" that's a work based gospel/salvation. But Paul specifically tells us to do that because if you are led by the Spirit you won't fulfil the lust of the flesh. You think that's impossible and yes, without the Holy Spirit it would be. That's why it's a constant daily battle. One you apparently you believe is not worth taking on. Even with Christ and Paul and others telling us to do so.
Paul giving us another choice-
Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: -Choice
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
Why quote Paul when he himself gives us choices to make? We can choose to both Walk in the Spirit and two be not conformed to the world.
Try looking in the mirror for change. I accept every word of God and have never stated anyone would be perfect or sinless in the flesh. That has never been my position or others which you continually accuse of having that position. My point is Christ tells us to make choices as does Paul who you quoted and the rest who've laid the very same foundation.
You posted that making choices is works gospel and that's why I posted in the first place. We can make choices, we also were created in Christ unto good works for which God himself preordained that we should walk in them. That's why Paul urges us to Walk in the Spirit.
You apparently believe it's pointless to do so and that really baffles me. It's as if you've given up that walk or have never really started it.
But I'm sure your answer will be once again "you have ignored the other side", you are a "one sided record" and so on. And once again I will tell you that I've never stated anyone would be perfect or sinless in the flesh but the way to overcome the flesh is to deny ourselves, Walk in the Spirit, etc. which is a "daily" thing. One you apparently don't want to undertake for whatever reason.
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Jeff Saunders
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So God for new those he did not predestined for heaven but he predestined them for hell, he knew they would go there before he created them and still did it any way?
Most of humanity now God has to keep alive supernaturally and keep them in a place of torcher forever, God has to listen to the screams of those he is torturing for all eternity and thats love?
What kind of God would be like that?
The " elect" think they are ok because Jesus gets between them and God and then God doesn't see them only Jesus, and you want to worship a God like that?
Not for me I worship the God who will leave the 99 and search for the 1 until he finds it, he does not give up, He is a loving Father.
This is what the early church taught- Athanasius of Alexandria- ON THE INCARNATION-section 6- " There was something deeply unworthy of God's goodness in the idea that creatures He made should be brought to nothing through the devil's deception of man; and it was even more unfitting that God's work in humanity should simply vanish, whether through human negligence or the scheming of evil spirits. So then, when the rational creatures He made in the likeness of the Word were perishing, when such noble works were on the road to ruin, what was God, being good, supposed to do? Was He simply to stand aside and let corruption and death have their way? If so, what was the point of creating them in the first place? It would surely have been better never to have existed at all than to be created, abandoned, and left to perish. Beyond that, such indifference toward the destruction of His own handiwork, happening right before His eyes, would reflect not goodness in God but a kind of poverty, and far more so than if He had never made humanity at all. It was therefore impossible for God to leave man to be carried off by corruption, because to do so would be unworthy of who He is." This is the God that I see in Scripture, not the monster god that religion has created.
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David1701
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God knows the end from the beginning; he is omniscient; so, of course he knew that the reprobates would be sent to hell, before he created them.
The alternative would be that God is not omniscient, which would mean that he is not God and that the Bible is untrue. Are you really willing to go there?
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That is absolutely true. There is absolutely nothing that God couldn't do. What He chooses to do is His business only and not for me to dictate.
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Jeff Saunders
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There is another alternative, That when God said, 1 Tim 2:3-6 its his will/ desire that all be saved he was being truthful.
1 Tim 4:9-11 Because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men, especially those who believe.
2 Cor 5:19 In Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, not counting men's sins against them.
Phil 2:10-11 Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.
1 cor 15:21 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.
Maybe just maybe the Trinity knew what they were doing and had a plan to have a humanity that would be in perfect harmony and unity with them in the end, as 1Cor 15:28 says that God will be all in all, maybe the last 6000 years is Gods plan to get his whole creation to follow him out of free will. Maybe God doesn't give up on his creation and would sacrifice Himself to save his creation from destruction, not just give us a book to figure out. Maybe God truly is love and all he does is out of love.
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That is certainly one alternative, but hardly the only one. One can find biblical verses which support a surprisingly wide range of alternatives, but the complete tenor of scripture points to particular salvation rather than universal salvation.
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David1701
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1 Tim. 2:1-6 (KJV)
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The "all men", in verse one, refers to categories, not individuals, as we can see in verse 2. In other words, it is all without distinction; rather than all without exception. The Bible is very clear that many end up in hell, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
1 Tim. 4:9,10 (V.W.)
9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance.
10 For to this end we both labor and are reproached, because we trust in the living God, who is the preserver of all men, especially of those who believe.
The word "especially", in verse 10, denotes degree. In other words, there is sense in which God preserves, delivers or saves everyone, but the greatest salvation (from sin and hell) is reserved for those who believe in Jesus Christ.
2 Cor. 5:19 (V.W.) that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the Word of reconciliation.
Here, as in many places in the N.T., "the world" refers to Jews and Gentiles (i.e. not only Jews), without specifying how many.
Phil. 2:10,11 (V.W.)
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in Heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And this is exactly what will happen: those who believe in Jesus Christ will do so willingly; those who do not will do it grudgingly, before being sent to hell.
1 Cor. 15: 21-23 (V.W.)
21 For since through man came death, through Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam everyone dies, even so in Christ everyone shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
Everyone in Adam dies (unbelievers); but, everyone in Christ will be made alive (believers).
Sinful man's will is in bondage to sin; he will not come to the light; he is hostile towards God; and he does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, because they are folly to him. This is why people MUST be born again, by the Holy Spirit, in order to repent, believe in Jesus Christ and be saved.
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Jeff Saunders
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You have learned the calvinist explanation well, but that is all it is, a distortion of what the original text says by adding definitions that are not in line with the original text.
1Tim 2 " all men" is the Greek word pas, the definition is- all, every, whole, entire. No place is the Greek word pas used to mean " all without distinction, that is a made up definition, that the Calvinists made up because their tradition can't stand up to the plain reading of the text.
1 Tim 4:9-10 The Greek word for especially is malistra, it means- Especially, chiefly, most of all. It says nothing about degree. That is a distortion to make it fit a certain tradition, that can't stand on the plain reading of the text.
2 Cor 5:19 the Greek world translated world is cosmos, which is the whole of this creation, it no places means " Jews and Gentiles without specifying how many, again a made up definition because the plain reading does not fit the tradition
Phil 2:10-11 the Greek word translated confess is exomologeo- the definition is- to acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations. Its not a forced, boot on the neck confession, but a change of the heart and true repentance, no different from what every christian must do. Besides God does not accept a false or forced confession, that goes against his nature and character. So again not taking Scripture for its plain reading because it goes against a certain tradition.
1 Cor 15:21-23 Every Greek scholar that I have read says that the structure of the language is that the same group in Adam is the same Group in Christ, that is the Greek structure of the way it was originally written. Also those in Adam are not just unbelievers but all men, also the same group that are in Christ are not believer only but, that pesky Greek word pas again, the meaning is all, no qualifications just all as in all.
So the question is who is correct the plain reading of the original Greek text or the tradition that has to redefine words in order to try to make their tradition fit into the Scripture?
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David1701
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Look, if you're going to claim that Greek words have a particular meaning, you need to have at least some clue about it.
In the Bible, words like, "all", "world", etc., hardly ever (unless specifically stated) refer to every single person in the world.
Even in English, the word "especially" is a word that denotes degree (as do "chiefly" and "most of all"). Perhaps you don't understand what "degree" means?
The Greek word "kosmos" has a range of meanings (called a "semantic range"), as do many other words, depending upon the context. I assumed that you would know that, since you are engaging in this type of discussion.
The Greek word "exomologeo" can mean what you posted; however, it can also mean a confession of one's sins (e.g. an unbeliever realising that his unbelief was wrong; but, in this case, when it's too late).
We all were in Adam, but only believers are in Christ. Christ is the last Adam, the head of the new race, comprising all those who believe in him; and they are the ones who are made alive.
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Benaiah468
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Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. Isa 54:16
The warlords, the Babylonians, who punished Israel, did not do so outside of G-d’s control. He used them as instruments of discipline. The Destroyer has the task of destroying the transitory, the sinful, and the proud. When this work is done, the function of destruction is over. But that does not necessarily mean that the being who held this function will be destroyed forever. G-d abolishes the role of the Destroyer in order to ultimately incorporate the being behind it into His cosmos of love.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:10-15
In the imagery of the goldsmith, fire is a purifying element. Fire separates the lie, slag, from the truth, gold.
In the end, death and Hades are also cast into the fiery lake. Since death and Hades are not persons, they cannot be tormented in the literal sense. Their casting into the fire signifies their final cessation. But if death is destroyed, logically there can no longer be any being that remains in a state of eternal spiritual death.
The destruction of an enemy is the method of human rulers. G-d’s triumph is far greater: He does not destroy the enemy, but He destroys the enmity by transforming the enemy into a worshiper. This is the deeper meaning of Philippians
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:10-11
In the end, every knee, even that of the fallen angels, bows of its own accord and worships.
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man… Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Hebr 2:5-9 .14-16
G-d first set Israel aside in order to have mercy on the Gentiles. Did Israel’s temporary exclusion mean their eternal damnation? No, for Paul writes:
And so all Israel shall be saved: Rom 11:26a
Exactly the same logic applies to the Epistle to the Hebrews. The fact that Christ, in His incarnation, primarily reaches out to humanity, the descendants of Abraham, does not mean that the angels will ultimately come away empty-handed. To interpret Him this way contradicts the statement in Colossians that Christ will ultimately reconcile ALL things in heaven and on earth to Himself
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:20
It is now their turn in another phase of the divine plan of restoration.
If you accuse me of desperately longing for a satanic salvation, then you are misunderstanding the deeper meaning of Christian theology. Gregory of Nyssa and Origen taught exactly that. G-d destroys evil by rooting out rebellion. He does not save the principle of Satan, but heals the fallen spiritual being. If G-d is ultimately all in all, there can be no eternal wasteland in the cosmos where evil burns on forever or where beings exist in whom He is not all.
You claim that universal atonement is unbiblical. The fate of Origen is one of the most tragic chapters in church history. He suffered a martyr’s death at an advanced age under Roman torture, and centuries after his death, he was officially condemned and cursed as a heretic precisely because of his doctrine of universal reconciliation and the teachings associated with it.
Origen however was not condemned because his biblical studies were superficial, but because his theological radicalism, the belief that G-d’s love conquers all, stood in the way of the emperor’s power politics and the Church’s pedagogical scare tactics.
Gregory of Nyssa taught precisely the universal atonement, including the fallen angels, and was never condemned as a heretic by the Church. On the contrary he is celebrated as a pillar of Orthodoxy. This shows that the problem does not lie in the biblical texts, but in a later, dogmatic narrowing of interpretation that simply refuses to acknowledge the boundless victorious power of Christ’s love on the cross.
For me, G-d is a G-d of absolute, transforming love and omnipotence. A G-d who accepts no defeat. Every single creature that ever came forth from His hand, whether human, angel, or fallen spirit, must ultimately return to Him voluntarily and healed. If G-d had to destroy a being in order to have peace, that would mean that the creature's sin or free will was more powerful than G-d's transforming love. He triumphs by turning evil into good.
We both believe in a G-d who will ultimately redeem all of humanity. We both reject the horrific image of an eternal, sadistic hell for humans. We both know that G-d’s fire is not an instrument of torture, but consumes rebellion so that He may ultimately reign without restriction. We share the gospel of G-d’s love for His creation.
We draw the line regarding the extent of this love at different points. You see the ultimate triumph in the radical eradication of incurable evil, while I see it in its complete transformation.
Believing in the absolute, unlimited power of Christ’s love on the cross to bring victory does not harm my witness. It is the core of my hope. I fully accept that you draw the line of salvation differently than I do. Let’s end this back-and-forth. It is a great privilege that we both believe in the same G-d of absolute love, who will ultimately redeem all of humanity.
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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We don't have to repeat the drill. Every Word of God applies to everyone.
And....you might sometime, someday see that Jesus said evil comes from within and defiles us. Mark 7:21:23
Choices never eliminates that fact.
Do you think you can possibly muster an agreement with Jesus on that fact? Seems unlikely.
Of course it does. You ignore the fact that evil comes via evil lawless thought that defile us, to chose from.
Your position can stand on choice all day and evil still comes from within and defiles us. You get a one handed clap for half a story
Oh. Yes. And the fact is still staring you in the face and you still can't see it. You should realize at some point the reaction is me torturing that evil for verification of Jesus' principals.
Uh, the point was never self justifications by choice. But Grace and totally unmerited Mercy of God in Christ because....
evil still comes from within and defiles us.
You have this big steaming pile of evil thoughts that you supposedly chose from, that defiles you, that you completely ignore in favor of self justifications.
Maybe sweep under the rug harder and Jesus won't see the Words that came from His Own Mouth
Well you do keep creeping up on the fact that we're still sinners who make bad choices. Theoretically from that steaming pile of evil to choose from, so there's that.
You do realize that IF every Word of God applies to everyone that big steaming pile of evil that defiles us is sitting / built on a pile of sand that will be blown away at some point, either at your end or His final return?
Every Word...
I won't be buying your half a loaf story anytime. I know evil comes from within and defiles me and I'm not all that interested in lying to Jesus about it. How bout you?
I might suggest God's Will is for you to hear the whole account and not just the side you think you choose.
Are you really wanting to stand before your Maker, bragging that you heard HALF His Words and applied HALF of them?
I'm actually looking forward to bringing my enemy before Him for execution. How bout you?
I don't blame any person for not hearing because it's not them that's the problem.
Oh look! You saw the WAR. It really is fun to watch. Do you know that Paul said temptation was in his flesh and that he had a messenger of Satan in his flesh?
Would you care to follow Paul in that conclusion?
Oh but let's just pretend we never see the war or the results or the adversary. Got it there half a story.
Oh look, we literally bear contrariness in us.
That may be what you hear but I've never said it. Every Word...applies...
The walk is made with evil present in us that defiles us, Romans 7:21
Ask Jesus to tell you the truth and He will. The Spirit of Truth is actually calling you to be truthful. So be truthful. You'll find it quite refreshing.
Where oh where did that lust of the flesh go? Oh yeah...still there...
I really am not looking to let my evil present off the hook or try to tell Jesus that it's not there or is not the case. You?
I actually refuse to justify the evil present within me, that Jesus said is there and I know it's there. I know I need His Mercy because of that, and probably always will, because His Mercy Endures Forever. I'm not God. And I do lose my evil life, daily, because it's there.
As if the other fact disappeared.
No choice will eliminate the evil present steaming pile. Your gospel smells
And I'll leave it at that.
I think you're getting warmer. Let me know when you stop trying to justify your evil present based on choice.
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JulieB67
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Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
At least you admit you believe this verse to be true and applies to everyone in Christ.
I'll leave it at that...
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BelieveItOarKnot
Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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We perhaps have a very simple theological divide to make here: I believe God allowed and even empowered the devils in those conquerors of Israel to come against the devils in the people of Israel. The destroyer(s) aren't what we see on the surface.
Well, first the enemy comes, then conquers, then captures and enslaves. A spiritual message there as well.
It wasn't just and only the people. There's more going on that we don't see when we only see physical historical accounts
The devil and his messengers were in the mix every step of the way.
Death is not going to be refashioned or reassigned to anything but the second death
Well then. You are already segmenting your own systemic analysis. You don't want death and hell refashioned but you want the devil and his messengers refashioned. The case is they are not sentient freewill agents.
Unfortunately for the early church fathers, they leaned heavily on freewill agency and choices. The reformed views on these subjects are an upgrade.
The devils don't have a choice to do better. They were made by God only to resist God, and to steal, kill, destroy, blind and take captive. There is no choice on the table for them to do otherwise. And they were never holy. All of the nonsense holy angels gone sour are concoctions that are not presented in scripture, largely stemming from the error of freewill free agency.
Bingo. We can leave everything going into the LoF right there. I'm fine with permanent termination. Maybe the dust will sizzle for eternity.
Other than the specific exemptions, yes.
The blanket doesn't eliminate the exemption statements. Gotta read the whole contract.
The angels (messengers) were always wicked evil messengers. They never fell from a holy state and that is never stated to be the case.
I think we've already agreed that all people and all of creation is saved in the end, particulars notwithstanding and in my reading, with specified exemptions.
I think part of the issue here is that certain UR preachers still threaten people with the LoF, and say it's only temporary torture. It's just modified extortion.
I don't buy that story
Christ also specified exemptions. Let's not ignore the facts. You know full well these adverse agents are heading for the flames. You think they're heading for redemption. I don't.
Christ's blood was not shed for devils
Well of course that's exactly what you're promoting.
Uh, no. Origen didn't. That leaves you with 1 errant based freewiller that thought Satan was a freewill agent with choice. I think Satan is nothing more than an antispirit that will have the switch turned off
Look, there is nothing in scripture that even remotely applies any forms of change or redemption to Satan or devils, specifically and lots of the opposite.
I have no problem with it with correct exemptions applied. I read the whole contract hundreds of times. What you think is in the fine print ignores the exemption statements. Satan and devils are not and never will be children of God and Satan isn't Jesus' brother
Largely because the church accused him of teaching Satanic salvation, which he denied.
Not quite. He said it was theoretically possible IF Satan was a freewill agent but that it likely would not happen. Freewill got in his way.
Uh, no, it's not. The EO do not promote Satanic salvation or even people salvation other than their members. All other people may be only iffy in their eyes.
If there were a single line of text that applied eventual salvation to Satan or his totally presumed on your part, derivative, you'd have a point. I've looked. Nothing there. It's a nothing burger
God doesn't feed us nothing burgers. You should give up the practice and stick to God's children.
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Benaiah468
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You say I need to read the fine print and that there are excemptions in the contract. In the Epistle to the Colossians, there is not a single grammatical exception. Paul writes unequivocally that Christ, through His blood on the cross, has reconciled all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
The heavenly powers are mentioned in the same sentence as earthly people. If one reads exceptions into that passage, one is engaging in eisegesis rather than exegesis.
In his writings, Gregory of Nyssa unequivocally taught universal restoration, which included the healing of the entire cosmos, all human beings, and explicitly also the author of evil (Satan). Your statement confuses the official dogmatic stance of today’s Orthodox Church with the teachings of its historical Church Fathers. The claim that that is not true regarding Gregory’s teaching ignores the historical fact that his texts exist and contain precisely this universal atonement. The Church has simply accepted his writings despite these controversial passages because of his immense contributions to the doctrine of the Trinity.
Your G-d triumphs in the end by rectifying His errors in the system through erasure and annihilation. He merely annihilates beings without free will whom He Himself programmed for evil. This is exactly the opposite of what Origen and Gregory of Nyssa taught.
In the end, my G-d triumphs with far greater power: He does not destroy the creature, but He destroys the enmity by allowing His infinite love to work until rebellion collapses in every consciousness and every knee bows in voluntary worship.
We read the same contract, but you see clauses of exemptions in it, while I see in it the absolute, boundless surrender of evil to the Father’s love.
I'm totally fine with the fact that we see things differently. It's nice that we at least agree on saving people.
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