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Bradskii

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Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
- Genesis 9:6

He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
- Exodus 21:12
I'm more of a NewTestament guy myself. And I'm sure you are as well when it comes to certain OT passages. The point being is that you can have a particular view on the death penalty (or homosexuality or the position of women in society etc etc) and find justification for it somewhere between Genesis and Revelation.
 
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Tuur

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I'm more of a NewTestament guy myself. And I'm sure you are as well when it comes to certain OT passages. The point being is that you can have a particular view on the death penalty (or homosexuality or the position of women in society etc etc) and find justification for it somewhere between Genesis and Revelation.
Two direct statements from the bible is insufficient? W.C. Fields, when found reading a bible, claimed he was looking for loopholes, but I don't recommend it.
 
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Bradskii

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God's history isn't altered by mortal opinion.
I find that mortal opinion is often justified by reference to whatever biblical passages they feel support said opinion. I'm sure you'll have some to support yours.
 
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Bradskii

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Two direct statements from the bible is insufficient?
Hey, c'mon now. Do you want me to quote some OT passages and see if you support what they say? Let's not go down that path, eh?
 
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Tuur

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Hey, c'mon now. Do you want me to quote some OT passages and see if you support what they say? Let's not go down that path, eh?
The challenge being that no one really believes the bible? I likely can find NT passages that aren't to your liking as well.

Guess what: The bible says what it says. We can either believe it or not. If we chose not to believe parts because it's inconvenient, should we also not believe what it has to say about Jesus Christ? And if we really want to start something, all we have to do is turn to what Jesus had to say about divorce.
 
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SweetBee

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I find that mortal opinion is often justified by reference to whatever biblical passages they feel support said opinion. I'm sure you'll have some to support yours.
Something that I found helped greatly with my walk in the beginning of my faith was to read the Bible as if it were a regular book.

Rather than read and then try to interpret what was being taught.

Then, I read the Bible as was intended . Because the initial encounter with Gods words ,for me,thinking I had to understand and receive the message as God's words for me, was quite frightening as a new believer.

Coming out of the world as an unbeliever and skeptic first takes time when first coming into the light of Christ.

However,I found when I read God's words I understand he knows what he's talking about. And the opinion part comes when believers discuss our respective understanding together.

None of that will resonate with an atheist.
I wrote that for members of the church who may wonder about your POV.
 
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Bradskii

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The challenge being that no one really believes the bible? I likely can find NT passages that aren't to your liking as well.
Likely? It's a certainty.
Guess what: The bible says what it says. We can either believe it or not. If we chose not to believe parts because it's inconvenient, should we also not believe what it has to say about Jesus Christ?
You will believe that for which you find the evidence is acceptable. Or which bolster your already held convictions. But yes, of course you can deny certain passages as being factually accurate. Take them as metaphorical. Accept them as comments on social attitudes at the time. It's not one book written at one time by one person.

So yes, you can believe some of it and not believe other parts but still accept what it says about Jesus. I don't take you for a dyed-in-the-wool fundamentalist so I'm not sure why this is even being discussed.
 
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Bradskii

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None of that will resonate with an atheist.
I don't think it's a good idea to pigeonhole people and then assume what will or will not resonate with them. Especially those you don't know.
I wrote that for members of the church who may wonder about your POV.
I've been here for some time. Most 'members of the church' (are you using that as a catch all for Christians?) who post here will know my POV because everything I post is based on my POV. Whereas I doubt if you've read more than 4 or 5 of my posts on one topic so far. The point being is that you don't know enough about my views to assume that you can educate others on it.

Now, we haven't got off to a good start. But stick around for a while and you'll find that I'm not that difficult to get on with, I treat most people with a certain respect, I can get a little sarcastic (working on that), my politics are to the left and I'm kind to animals (oh, and I used to be an Anglican, aka Church of England - but we won't discuss that right now).
 
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SweetBee

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I don't think it's a good idea to pigeonhole people and then assume what will or will not resonate with them. Especially those you don't know.

I've been here for some time. Most 'members of the church' (are you using that as a catch all for Christians?) who post here will know my POV because everything I post is based on my POV. Whereas I doubt if you've read more than 4 or 5 of my posts on one topic so far. The point being is that you don't know enough about my views to assume that you can educate others on it.

Now, we haven't got off to a good start. But stick around for a while and you'll find that I'm not that difficult to get on with, I treat most people with a certain respect, I can get a little sarcastic (working on that), my politics are to the left and I'm kind to animals (oh, and I used to be an Anglican, aka Church of England - but we won't discuss that right now).
Your profile,by your own doing,identifies you as an atheist.
I suggest that when you chose to seek out and join a religious forum and introduced yourself as one who holds no faith or belief in what our faith cherishes, you pigeonholed yourself.

That is all I have to tell you.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Guess what: The bible says what it says. We can either believe it or not. If we chose not to believe parts because it's inconvenient, should we also not believe what it has to say about Jesus Christ? And if we really want to start something, all we have to do is turn to what Jesus had to say about divorce.
That's my plan. Though it is more about "clearly wrong in one place" than "inconvenient".
 
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Bradskii

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Your profile,by your own doing,identifies you as an atheist.
Indeed it does.
I suggest that when you chose to seek out and join a religious forum and introduced yourself as one who holds no faith or belief in what our faith cherishes, you pigeonholed yourself.
I'm not sure that you understand what the term means. Unless you think that you pigeonhole yourself as a Christian?

That seems very odd. So I'll go Option A.
 
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RDKirk

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I'm more of a NewTestament guy myself. And I'm sure you are as well when it comes to certain OT passages. The point being is that you can have a particular view on the death penalty (or homosexuality or the position of women in society etc etc) and find justification for it somewhere between Genesis and Revelation.
Here is a thing to consider:

The Old Testament was to a people who were confined to an earthly nation that they had to operate and protect among other nations. It has "nation-sustaining" information and instructions suitable for an earthly nation of that day. The Old Testament is instruction for an earthly government.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." None of the New Testament writers wrote anything about Christians controlling an earthly nation. None of them expected or intended that to happen. Nothing Jesus said would lead them to think it would happen. Their outlook was that the Church operated as an embassy of a nation that was not on this earth.

That's why people who want to entangle the Church with earthly governments have to reach back to the Old Testament for justification,.
 
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Nithavela

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Hear me out:

headrip.jpg
 
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Tuur

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Something that I found helped greatly with my walk in the beginning of my faith was to read the Bible as if it were a regular book.

Rather than read and then try to interpret what was being taught.

Then, I read the Bible as was intended . Because the initial encounter with Gods words ,for me,thinking I had to understand and receive the message as God's words for me, was quite frightening as a new believer.

Coming out of the world as an unbeliever and skeptic first takes time when first coming into the light of Christ.

However,I found when I read God's words I understand he knows what he's talking about. And the opinion part comes when believers discuss our respective understanding together.

None of that will resonate with an atheist.
I wrote that for members of the church who may wonder about your POV.
When I start looking through commentaries about some verse of scripture, I have the uncomfortable feeling that I’m doing what W.C. Fields claimed to be doing when he was found reading the bible. To be frank, there are verses that challenge everyone and we shouldn’t dismiss them because they make us uneasy. And yes, when I say everyone, that includes me.
 
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SweetBee

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When I start looking through commentaries about some verse of scripture, I have the uncomfortable feeling that I’m doing what W.C. Fields claimed to be doing when he was found reading the bible. To be frank, there are verses that challenge everyone and we shouldn’t dismiss them because they make us uneasy. And yes, when I say everyone, that includes me.
Loopholes.
WC was a kidder.

I agree. There are many challenging verses. I'm grateful I was led to become better aware in my studies in the manner I formerly described. However,those challenging passages remain.

God Bless
 
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Bradskii

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When I start looking through commentaries about some verse of scripture, I have the uncomfortable feeling that I’m doing what W.C. Fields claimed to be doing when he was found reading the bible. To be frank, there are verses that challenge everyone and we shouldn’t dismiss them because they make us uneasy. And yes, when I say everyone, that includes me.
I think @RDKirk put it very well a couple of posts upstream. I think that yes, there are verses in the OT that you must dismiss.
 
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keith99

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When I start looking through commentaries about some verse of scripture, I have the uncomfortable feeling that I’m doing what W.C. Fields claimed to be doing when he was found reading the bible. To be frank, there are verses that challenge everyone and we shouldn’t dismiss them because they make us uneasy. And yes, when I say everyone, that includes me.
But being a bear, you have at least one less troubling verse!
 
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Tuur

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I think @RDKirk put it very well a couple of posts upstream. I think that yes, there are verses in the OT that you must dismiss.
You can't, not unless you dismiss the whole bible. There are some atheists who like to play the "neater, neater" game by taking verses out of context, apparently assuming no Christian in the last two thousand years has read it and that, in the OT, no practitioner since Moses ever paid attention to it. You can study it and ask if it's applicable and see if there is a further meaning by context, but there will come to some that must stand on their own.

That's going to lead to uncomfortable places, particularly where it conflicts with modern Western views, but there they are,
 
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Bradskii

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You can't, not unless you dismiss the whole bible.
I see no logical, or theological reason why you can't reject parts of the bible that I'm sure you would consider completely unacceptable today whilst accepting those that are still valid today.

Who on earth is going to accept that stoning women would be acceptable? Jesus didn't.
 
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