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Resurrection

timothyu

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Grace gave us the Kingdom and escape. Resurrection of a King who showed the powers and principalities that He could not be overcome. Why is more emphasis by Christians seemingly put on the Cross than the Resurrection? Also, our bodies are moot. According to the Jews, the spirit goes to Sheol and we are later told new bodies await us in the Kingdom. So does resurrection apply directly to us, to flesh if it is no longer needed?
 
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Lukaris

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I believe we need to see the whole picture in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior. His deity, birth, life of preaching the Gospel, His baptism, His Cross, resurrection, ascension etc. We have to deal with the issue of our flesh to put on the Lord Jesus Christ ( Romans 13:14). I believe Colossians 1, Romans 13, & 1 Corinthians 15 can help us focus on much of this.
 
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timothyu

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Yes, most focus on His death as it takes away our sins, and then-Easter Sunday- on the resurrection which is the inseparable result: eternal life: triumph over sin and death now realized.
What would have happened had they accepted Him?
 
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fhansen

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What would have happened had they accepted Him?
Then God woud've had to rewrite His plans as they messed up the whole production :grin:.

Seriously, tho, the question would mean that the whole of Israel in the majority, or the leaders in any case, would've accepted Christ as the messiah and Christianity as Judaism fullfilled. And, in relation to God, whether God as Spirit or God Incarnate, I don't think that's how it could've worked-man's heart must be changed one at a time. Just some thoughts.
 
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timothyu

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would've accepted Christ as the messiah and Christianity as Judaism fullfilled.
Would Jesus then dying of old age and rising have defeated death? Or would that concept have disappeared from theology? Would it have been enough for mankind to put the Will of God ahead of their own and simply love all as self? That was the original Christianity.
 
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fhansen

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Would Jesus then dying of old age and rising have defeated death? Or would that concept have disappeared from theology? Would it have been enough for mankind to put the Will of God ahead of their own and simply love all as self? That was the original Christianity.
To put God's will and love above all else means that I've been reconciled with Him, now existing in a state of direct albeit not yet full union with Him that didn't exist before, a state that all men are made for and which will be fully relaized only in the next life when we meet "face to face" (1 Cor 13). I don't know if there could've been an alternative plan to the way it was done, with man demonstrating his love for darkness and hatred for God via Christ's sacrificial death at their hands, Him dying for us while we're yet sinners.
 
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timothyu

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To put God's will and love above all else means that I've been reconciled with Him, now existing in a state of direct albeit not yet full union with Him that didn't exist before
Also to live now according to that Will rather than the ways of mankind. Repent of our selfish me me me nature.

I don't know if there could've been an alternative plan to the way it was done
Yes, sooner or later somebody would have tried to take down the Leader or the system that was a counter-culture to the entire world. Our ways are not built upon sharing with all. The Kingdom would be seen as traitorous to the world of man that we have made in our own image. Actually, even ther religion set the Kingdom aside to harlot itself to the Roman Empire. Two opposing systems becoming one, and the Empire did not change its self-serving ways.. The Kingdom is foolproof. The religion is not. Jesus told the Sanhedrin that also.
 
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fhansen

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Also to live now according to that Will rather than the ways of mankind. Repent of our selfish me me me nature.
Yes, I think the two, unity with God and obedience of God go hand in hand- and yet we can fail to obey, and that can mean we've failed to remain in Him. Either way we have a part to play, our wills remain involved-in picking up our crosses and following Him daily to the best of our grace-aided abilities.
 
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timothyu

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and that can mean we've failed to remain in Him.
We being hybrids may occasionally fall back to our feral instinctive self-serving ways like the family cat or dog, yet He seems more concerned about allegiance to Him rather than to ourselves or our elohim overlords.
 
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fhansen

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We being hybrids may occasionally fall back to our feral instinctive self-serving ways like the family cat or dog, yet He seems more concerned about allegiance to Him rather than to ourselves or our elohim overlords.
Yes, and either way allegiance to Him means obedience of Him- or else it's just talk.
 
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mindlight

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Grace gave us the Kingdom and escape. Resurrection of a King who showed the powers and principalities that He could not be overcome. Why is more emphasis by Christians seemingly put on the Cross than the Resurrection? Also, our bodies are moot. According to the Jews, the spirit goes to Sheol and we are later told new bodies await us in the Kingdom. So does resurrection apply directly to us, to flesh if it is no longer needed?

We were created with physical bodies and will receive glorified bodies at the resurrection is what the Bible says (1 Cor 15: 42-44) Our immaterial form is linked with this past and future physical form. Christ's resurrection was similarly not just his ghost leaving a tomb but an actual physical resurrection (Luke 24:39; John 20:27). There is a continuity between the bodies we inhabit now and our future glorious state (Rom 8:11). At the second coming the bodies that believers inhabit will be directly glorified into the glorious state showing the absolute the link between the past and future forms.(1 Corinthians 15:51–52)

The cross makes it possible for wickedness to be washed away and for us to stand in Gods presence (Rom 5:9). This is an essential prerequisite for a resurrected and glorified life with God for all eternity. It is not an escape as you imply which sounds almost gnostic separating body and spirit and glorifying spirit at the expense of the bodies God created for us. (Rom 8:21)

I believe body and soul are linked. This could mean that when we die we are in a sort of soul sleep until the resurrection or we continue in an incomplete and merely immaterial state until the completion that comes with the resurrection. Either way the body and soul go together (2 Cor 5:4-8)
 
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mindlight

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Would Jesus then dying of old age and rising have defeated death? Or would that concept have disappeared from theology? Would it have been enough for mankind to put the Will of God ahead of their own and simply love all as self? That was the original Christianity.

That does not fit penal substitution. Imperfect men could not reverse the choice of Adam by the perfection of an obedient life without sin. We were born in sin and it taints our every effort. Only the action of a perfect high priest who was without sin was a worthy sacrifice and someone who could by perfect obedience reverse the curse of Adam
 
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mindlight

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What would have happened had they accepted Him?
God planned all this and knew his audience. He knew what thy would do and what it would cost Him. The foreknowledge and discernment of God and His Sovereign will being primary factors.
 
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timothyu

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That does not fit penal substitution. Imperfect men could not reverse the choice of Adam by the perfection of an obedient life without sin. We were born in sin and it taints our every effort. Only the action of a perfect high priest who was without sin was a worthy sacrifice and someone who could by perfect obedience reverse the curse of Adam
I agree only Jesus could make the change, but is not our part only to repent/change our self-serving ways, act in servitude to God and each other, and spread the Gospel of the Kingdom. And again, if Jesus had died of old age and rose on the thrid day, would we still have the same result? Death would still be defeated.
 
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timothyu

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God planned all this and knew his audience. He knew what thy would do and what it would cost Him. The foreknowledge and discernment of God and His Sovereign will being primary factors.
Yes we like to kill that which rebels against our adversarial notion of self. But had Jesus been accepted as Messiah, would death have been defeated? Did God want Jesus accepted as Messiah at the time or was that never the plan?
 
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Hawkins

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It's a necessity for all humans to be resurrected to face the Final Judgment. Angels can witness souls but normal humans can only witness a body as the image. We don't have the ability to reckon each other by our souls. For example, if you murdered someone and eyewitnesses are called during the Judgment we need a body to reckon each other and to stand that witness. This is about a fair and just open Judgment.
 
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Bro.T

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Grace gave us the Kingdom and escape. Resurrection of a King who showed the powers and principalities that He could not be overcome. Why is more emphasis by Christians seemingly put on the Cross than the Resurrection? Also, our bodies are moot. According to the Jews, the spirit goes to Sheol and we are later told new bodies await us in the Kingdom. So does resurrection apply directly to us, to flesh if it is no longer needed?
Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither thou goest.

If there is no work, no device, no knowledge, no wisdom, in the grave, why does the status quo say there are spirits that walk the earth? They have no knowledge of the Word of God. There are spirits that walk the earth, but they are not dead people. They are fallen angels. We will see an example of one later. In short, the dead don't know anything.

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11
As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised

Now....if you didn't die righteously in the Lord, this is the next exit. Let's go into Revelation 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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