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The Fifth Seal has been opened...

Spiritual Jew

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Shown to be wrong by the moon shining bright red on the terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath. Rev 6:12b
On the glorious Day Jesus Returns, the moon does not give any light.
Revelation 6:12 does not describe the moon as shining bright red. You are twisting the scripture to fit your doctrine, as you so often do.

Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.

For one thing, it's highly questionable as to whether Revelation 6:12-17 should be taken literally since it talks about stars falling to earth and such. But even if it was meant to be taken literally, do you understand that the only reason the moon gives light is because of the light of the sun reflecting off of it? Notice what this verse says. It says "the sun became black as sackcloth of hair". How can the moon shine without the sun shining on it? It can't. You are failing to look at the context of the verse. The moon appearing red does not mean that it's shining and giving off light. If it was meant to be taken literally, it would appear red if the sun is being blocked like during a solar eclipse or if there is something blocking the sun's light from fully reaching the moon such as a lot of smoke or ash.

So, the following two passage are about the same event.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
 
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keras

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So, the following two passage are about the same event.
It is so obviously, glaringly wrong to conflate Matthew 24:29 with Revelation 6:12, that I have no need to rebut it.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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It is so obviously, glaringly wrong to conflate Matthew 24:29 with Revelation 6:12, that I have no need to rebut it.
You are completely incapable of rebutting anything, as you have proven over and over again. That's why you don't even attempt to do it. Pathetic.
 
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keras

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It is so obviously, glaringly wrong to conflate Matthew 24:29 with Revelation 6:12, that I have no need to rebut it.
The sequence of Revelation proves @Spiritual Jew wrong, The Day of the Lords fiery wrath is in Rev 6. Not until Rev 19:11 does Jesus Return. Much must happen between them.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The sequence of Revelation proves @Spiritual Jew wrong, The Day of the Lords fiery wrath is in Rev 6. Not until Rev 19:11 does Jesus Return. Much must happen between them.
Are you really this naive to think that the book of Revelation is chronological from beginning to end? Look at Revelation 11 and 12, for example. The end of Revelation 11 refers to the sounding of the seventh trumpet. Revelation 12 refers to Christ's birth and ascension. Clearly, the events described in those two chapters are not chronological. Without understanding that there are several recapitulations or parallel passages in the book of Revelation, you can't hope to interpret it accurately.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Are you really this naive to think that the book of Revelation is chronological from beginning to end? Look at Revelation 11 and 12, for example. The end of Revelation 11 refers to the sounding of the seventh trumpet. Revelation 12 refers to Christ's birth and ascension. Clearly, the events described in those two chapters are not chronological. Without understanding that there are several recapitulations or parallel passages in the book of Revelation, you can't hope to interpret it accurately.
@keras I see that you agreed with my post that I quoted here. So, why do you act as if there has to be a bunch of things happening between Revelation 6:12-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 when you agree that the book is not all chronological? Why do you not think that those can be parallel passages related to the return of Christ? You agree that there are recapitulations and parallel passages in the book, so there's no reason why those two passages can't be about the same event.
 
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Douggg

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@keras I see that you agreed with my post that I quoted here. So, why do you act as if there has to be a bunch of things happening between Revelation 6:12-17 and Revelation 19:11-21 when you agree that the book is not all chronological? Why do you not think that those can be parallel passages related to the return of Christ? You agree that there are recapitulations and parallel passages in the book, so there's no reason why those two passages can't be about the same event.

What both you and keras need to do is go to Amazon and get a copy of Corel Paintshop Pro Ultimate 2023 and start learning how to make timeline charts of events.

Learning how to use the program is fun to do. The timeline charts are just pictures. Other graphic programs that are part of Windows are not user friendly, and I have tried and they are a flop - so I definitely don't recommend that approach.

If you get the Corel program, let me known, and I will help you. It is not what you might think. It is a fun to use program.

Making timeline charts of events is "ORGANIZING" your thoughts of how things are going to take place. And presenting them to others so that they will understand.
 
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Douggg

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So, the following two passage are about the same event.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
That's what I have been telling you for years.
 
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Douggg

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It is so obviously, glaringly wrong to conflate Matthew 24:29 with Revelation 6:12, that I have no need to rebut it.
No, @Spiritual Jew is right. Matthew 24:29-30a (in blue) corresponds to things that happen in the sixth seal event.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



rapture window.jpg
 
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keras

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No, @Spiritual Jew is right. Matthew 24:29-30a (in blue) corresponds to things that happen in the sixth seal event.
But they simply and categorically DON'T.
The moon shining red at the Sixth Seal, as Joel 3:21 and Acts 2:20 do not relate to the glorious Return. Peter states very clearly; before the Lord comes.
Shifting the Sixth Seal to the Day of Jesus' Return, is a blatant case of messing around with Revelation. Not advisable!
 
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Spiritual Jew

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What both you and keras need to do is go to Amazon and get a copy of Corel Paintshop Pro Ultimate 2023 and start learning how to make timeline charts of events.
goodfellas-laugh-liotta.gif


I love how you think you have any authority to tell us what we need to do. Hilarious!

Learning how to use the program is fun to do.
Well, good for you. I'm not interested. The Bible is written with words and no charts.

The timeline charts are just pictures.
I'm not a little child who needs pictures in order to understand scripture.

Other graphic programs that are part of Windows are not user friendly, and I have tried and they are a flop - so I definitely don't recommend that approach.
I don't care what you recommend.

If you get the Corel program, let me known, and I will help you. It is not what you might think. It is a fun to use program.
Again, good for you. I am not interested in that even a tiny bit.

Making timeline charts of events is "ORGANIZING" your thoughts of how things are going to take place. And presenting them to others so that they will understand.
I can present my thoughts to others using words just like what we see in the Bible. No charts are necessary.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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That's what I have been telling you for years.
What are you talking about? You must have me confused with someone else. I've never said that Revelation 6:12-17 and Matthew 24:29-31 are not about the same event, so why would you need to tell me something I already know? Douggg, there seems to be something wrong with your memory. You are acting as if I ever said that Revelation 6:12-17 and Matthew 24:29-31 are not the same event and you're acting like you tried to tell me otherwise for years. That is absolutely not the case.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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No, @Spiritual Jew is right. Matthew 24:29-30a (in blue) corresponds to things that happen in the sixth seal event.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



View attachment 378151
To be clear to anyone reading your post, I don't also agree with the mess you have on your chart. We just agree that Revelation 6:12-17 and Matthew 24:29-30 refer to the same thing.
 
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Douggg

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But they simply and categorically DON'T.
The moon shining red at the Sixth Seal, as Joel 3:21 and Acts 2:20 do not relate to the glorious Return. Peter states very clearly; before the Lord comes.
The sixth seal event takes place 45 days before the day that Jesus descend don't to earth. So everything matches.


1775257252497.png
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The sixth seal event takes place 45 days before the day that Jesus descend don't to earth. So everything matches.
Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

So, you think they will say at the sixth seal that the great day of the wrath of the Lamb has come, but He doesn't actually come to bring down His wrath on them until 45 days later? Explain how that makes any sense. Passages like 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 indicate that the day of Christ's wrath is the day of His second coming when He will be revealed from heaven.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

If this passage above doesn't describe the day of the wrath of the Lamb (Christ), then I don't know what does. And it indicates that it comes down on the day He returns, not 45 days before He returns.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Bible Eschatology fans

I have been fascinated with the seven seals of Revelation for a long time. I believe it is possible now to understand them, and see their fulfillment in progress, by linking them to Zechariah 6.

In summary: the four horseman of the first four seals have the same colours as the horses in Zechariah 6, which came out between two mountains of bronze.
Hi BD,

I also believe that the 4 chariots of Zechariah and the 4 horsemen are the same. Zechariah shows that God is bringing judgment upon the great Federations of the world. The `mountains of brass` speaks of judgment. (Remember the Lord`s feet are symbolized of burnish brass. Rev. 1: 15) And we see that the northern great federation is the first to be judged. Obviously the Russian Federation.

The 4 Horsemen in Rev. reveal these 4 great federations as they arise one at a time. Dan. 7 describes them more.

1. Lion with eagle`s wings taken off. Great Britain and USA. - White horse with man crowned. Sovereign/king or queen.

2. Bear. Soviet Union - Russian Federation. - Red horse. Russia, much killing.

3. Leopard. Europe. - Black horse (famine/inflation) Europe`s `free trade policy` has caused much economic hardship.

4. Terrifying. Islam - Pale, death horse. terrorists.
 
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Douggg

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I can present my thoughts to others using words just like what we see in the Bible. No charts are necessary.
time-line charts are necessary to organize and present events in the bible in an understandable way.

A person can make a time-line chart with pencil and paper.

Take a cell phone camera shot of the chart and place the shot in their picture files on their computer. And then insert it into their post.
 
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keras

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The sixth seal event takes place 45 days before the day that Jesus descend don't to earth.
This belief invokes the curse of Revelation 22:18-19.
Please change your charts and your wrong beliefs, as no Christian should be under Gods curse.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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time-line charts are necessary to organize and present events in the bible in an understandable way.
No, they are not. Otherwise, the Bible itself would contain time-line charts. Do you think God inspired the Bible to be written in a way that can't be understood since it doesn't contain time-line charts?

A person can make a time-line chart with pencil and paper.
So what. It's not needed.

Take a cell phone camera shot of the chart and place the shot in their picture files on their computer. And then insert it into their post.
Stop trying to tell me what to do, Douggg. What in the world makes you think you can tell anyone what to do? You have no authority here.
 
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Douggg

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This belief invokes the curse of Revelation 22:18-19.
Please change your charts and your wrong beliefs, as no Christian should be under Gods curse.
I am not adding to nor taking away from the text.
 
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