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Florida Transgender Teen, Friend Charged in Alleged Plot to Kill Classmate to ‘Resurrect’ Sandy Hook Shooter

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Valletta

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People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes. I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.
 

Nithavela

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iluvatar5150

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People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes.

I don't suppose you have actual data to support that claim?

I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.

Judging by the pictures, the individual in this case hadn't transitioned.
 
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Say it aint so

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What's with this fixation on transgender people?
First is was just homosexuals in general.
Then it was pearl clutching drag queen book reading.
Now it's transgenders.
Why?
 
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MarcusGregor

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People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes. I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.
So... doesn't the fact that only one of the two teens charged is described as "transgender", like, cancel out the transphobic alarm of this article? Seems like this is just "teens" we should be concerned about at this point.
 
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iluvatar5150

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So... doesn't the fact that only one of the two teens charged is described as "transgender", like, cancel out the transphobic alarm of this article? Seems like this is just "teens" we should be concerned about at this point.
sounds like the cis girl is more of an accomplice.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes. I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.
I'm sure there's a bigger number of straight people, do more crime . I do believe parents should be more understanding, when their kids is transgender. Also, I believe bottom and top surgery shouldn't happen until, they are 18 plus years old. I don't believe schools are forcing kids and teenagers to be be transgender. Bottom surgery and top surgery is very costly. School's can't afford this. And it's usually a insurance issue.
 
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Desk trauma

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People need to acknowledge a disproportionate number of transgenders are involved in violent crimes. I don't think children should be transitioned at all or encouraged by public schools to be transitioned. It should be a choice only for an adult.
Ah, the latest trial balloon for involuntary commitment and disarming of trans people.
 
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Nithavela

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What's with this fixation on transgender people?
First is was just homosexuals in general.
Then it was pearl clutching drag queen book reading.
Now it's transgenders.
Why?

disney-pocahontas.gif
 
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Valletta

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I'm sure there's a bigger number of straight people, do more crime . I do believe parents should be more understanding, when their kids is transgender. Also, I believe bottom and top surgery shouldn't happen until, they are 18 plus years old. I don't believe schools are forcing kids and teenagers to be be transgender. Bottom surgery and top surgery is very costly. School's can't afford this. And it's usually a insurance issue.
The Supreme Court recently moved to put a stop to schools from concealing such information from parents in a California case:
 
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ThatRobGuy

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This is where being extremely clear on terms matters.

The data itself can be framed two different ways (depending on which narrative one wants to promote)

Obviously, there's the "overall" framing
Which looks at the total number of shootings, and determines what percentage involved someone who was Trans.
1773358206220.png




Then there's the "number of shootings committed by a group, relative to their share of the population size" (and omitting gang violence and armed robbery situations)
1773358243597.png



And the statistics can be watered down even further with the inclusion of things like Gang battles and robbery-type events.

For example, the Gun Violence Archive and Everytown for Gun Safety compile “mass shootings” lists that involve gang disputes and, to a lesser extent, other crimes such as robberies. While those incidents are important to study, they differ fundamentally from shootings in which an individual enters a location with the sole goal of murdering and injuring as many soft targets as possible to "make a statement"

Or, in more plain terms, a gang member fighting in a turf war, or a convenience store robbery where people end up getting shot is very different (from a psychological standpoint), than a person who writes an ideological manifesto, and then heads off to a church, mall, or school with a semi-automatic weapon to massacre as many random people as they can.


And in the field of psychiatry, there's a well-established link between suicidal ideation and homicidal ideation. Especially in people aged 12-24.


The strongest psychiatric predictors of homicidal ideation were suicidal ideation, personality disorders, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder - with depression and anxiety as weaker but still minor predictors.


...and what do we know about the prevalence of those conditions in the Trans population compared to the general population?


So the concerns in this regard can't be purely dismissed as "religious objection about sex stuff", and trying to draw a comparison to the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community (as to suggest that concerns about this are just a more recent iteration of conservative oppression) don't hold up either, as those groups don't experience a 12-fold increase in things like severe personality disorder or schizophrenia.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Florida teens charged in alleged murder plot seen laughing in patrol vehicle following arrest

"Dude, I was going to do my makeup this morning, for the mug shot, but I couldn't find anything," Valdez says.

Has anyone seen the 'court documents' that allegedly state that Valdez is transgender? I went around in circles earlier today following news article to news article, but none provided the original source.

Here's my most recent game of tag.

OP article references The Blaze, which is not a good start.

Blaze
Court documents indicated that Valdez identifies as transgender and goes by the name "Jimmy." [no source given]

WESH
Authorities reported that the teenagers are being charged as adults with attempted premeditated murder.

Isabelle Valdez, 15, who the report states is transgender and goes by Jimmy, is accused of planning the attack, stalking the student victim and writing a letter to her parents about the ordeal. [no source given]

NY POST
Valdez, who inexplicably went by the name “Jimmy,” tells her best friend she had wanted to “wear make up” to look attractive in her mugshot but couldn’t find any that morning, according to clickorlando.com [not a direct link to story][no source given]

Click orlando
“The anonymous tip advised that there is a student who [no inexplicably] goes by the name Jimmy, who is planning to kill another student named [REDACTED],” the report reads. [no source given]
 
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iluvatar5150

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file:///C:/Users/ylad/Downloads/2026CF000265B_2.pdf

file:///C:/Users/ylad/Downloads/2026CF000265B_2.pdf
that's not quite how file uploads work
 
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FireDragon76

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Another unicorn. In other news, a non-transgender person shot another person today and nobody posted to Christian forums in response.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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This is where being extremely clear on terms matters.

The data itself can be framed two different ways (depending on which narrative one wants to promote)

Obviously, there's the "overall" framing
Which looks at the total number of shootings, and determines what percentage involved someone who was Trans.
View attachment 377519



Then there's the "number of shootings committed by a group, relative to their share of the population size" (and omitting gang violence and armed robbery situations)
View attachment 377520


And the statistics can be watered down even further with the inclusion of things like Gang battles and robbery-type events.

For example, the Gun Violence Archive and Everytown for Gun Safety compile “mass shootings” lists that involve gang disputes and, to a lesser extent, other crimes such as robberies. While those incidents are important to study, they differ fundamentally from shootings in which an individual enters a location with the sole goal of murdering and injuring as many soft targets as possible to "make a statement"

Or, in more plain terms, a gang member fighting in a turf war, or a convenience store robbery where people end up getting shot is very different (from a psychological standpoint), than a person who writes an ideological manifesto, and then heads off to a church, mall, or school with a semi-automatic weapon to massacre as many random people as they can.


And in the field of psychiatry, there's a well-established link between suicidal ideation and homicidal ideation. Especially in people aged 12-24.


The strongest psychiatric predictors of homicidal ideation were suicidal ideation, personality disorders, schizophrenia, and bipolar disorder - with depression and anxiety as weaker but still minor predictors.


...and what do we know about the prevalence of those conditions in the Trans population compared to the general population?


So the concerns in this regard can't be purely dismissed as "religious objection about sex stuff", and trying to draw a comparison to the Gay/Lesbian/Bi community (as to suggest that concerns about this are just a more recent iteration of conservative oppression) don't hold up either, as those groups don't experience a 12-fold increase in things like severe personality disorder or schizophrenia.
I wouldn't use John Lott's data to draw any conclusions in this case.

Here is the article (self-published) Transgender Shooters Commit Disproportionate Shares of Mass Public and Active Shooting Attacks—In 2024, for active shooters, at Least 12 Times Their Share of the Population - Crime Prevention Research Center

He is very fond of giving relative numbers and percentages, but the absolute numbers are very low. This is mostly driven by him using FBI's active shooter definition. The number of actual episodes of shooting of firearms is very much higher than 453 over the 7 years in the US.

This is how his data breaks down, by year:
No. of active shooters2018201920202021202220232024
Non-trans, FBI data29294061494722
Non-trans, CPRC data7112151302722
Trans, FBI data1100113*
Trans, CPRC data0000000
Non-trans, FBI+CPRC data364061112797444
Trans, FBI+CPRC data1100113*


*There is also the complication that two of the three presumed trans shooters in 2024 seem to be non-trans. I might well be wrong, but the 2024 Lakewood Church shooting doesn't seem to have been done by a trans person. Not the 2024 Perry High school shooting either (not even John Lott says that this shooter was trans, but still put it in the trans shooter category?). Interestingly, the one trans shooting left wasn't classified as a active shooter incident by FBI, but Lott argues that it should be counted anyway.

If this is the case that it was one not three active trans shooter in 2024, then the whole argument becomes very flimsy.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I wouldn't use John Lott's data to draw any conclusions in this case.

Here is the article (self-published) Transgender Shooters Commit Disproportionate Shares of Mass Public and Active Shooting Attacks—In 2024, for active shooters, at Least 12 Times Their Share of the Population - Crime Prevention Research Center

He is very fond of giving relative numbers and percentages, but the absolute numbers are very low. This is mostly driven by him using FBI's active shooter definition. The number of actual episodes of shooting of firearms is very much higher than 453 over the 7 years in the US.

This is how his data breaks down, by year:
No. of active shooters2018201920202021202220232024
Non-trans, FBI data29294061494722
Non-trans, CPRC data7112151302722
Trans, FBI data1100113*
Trans, CPRC data0000000
Non-trans, FBI+CPRC data364061112797444
Trans, FBI+CPRC data1100113*


*There is also the complication that two of the three presumed trans shooters in 2024 seem to be non-trans. I might well be wrong, but the 2024 Lakewood Church shooting doesn't seem to have been done by a trans person. Not the 2024 Perry High school shooting either (not even John Lott says that this shooter was trans, but still put it in the trans shooter category?). Interestingly, the one trans shooting left wasn't classified as a active shooter incident by FBI, but Lott argues that it should be counted anyway.

If this is the case that it was one not three active trans shooter in 2024, then the whole argument becomes very flimsy.

That's why I noted that data can be framed different ways based on narrative.

Which is why I followed up by posting links discussing a risk assessment profile of sorts.

If we know that certain psychiatric conditions associated with increased homicidal ideation, then it's only reasonable to have concerns pertaining to a group that have rates of those conditions that far exceeds that of the general population.

We're not talking about a trivial difference here

1773408068587.png


If it were any other group or cohort (that wasn't considered to be aligned and protected class)
And we were talking about 12x the rate of schizophrenia, 10x the rate of dissociative disorder, 5x the rate of anxiety disorder, and 15x the rate of personality disorder

...And numerous high-profile recent incidents have involved people from that group

...And social trends and polling are indicating that there's a huge uptick in young people identifying with that group

Would anyone have any objections to the concerns?

This can't be purely dismissed as "this is just conservative pearl clutching just like they did about gay people 10 years ago".

To your other part
In the case of the 2024 Lakewood Church shooting, the shooter (Genesee Moreno, female) had gone by the name Jeffrey at various points in the past, which is what fuels the speculation that there was perhaps some gender issues going on. In the case of the Perry HS shooting, the speculation on that was fueled by the fact that the social media accounts for the person used symbols, hashtags, and posted pictures that seemed to align with "genderfluid".

That's another area where the over-granularity of how many designations and labels there are now can be used to artificially deflate certain numbers as well. Really what they need to do is just break it out between Cis vs. non-Cis.

Otherwise it'll just keep being this shell game of "The shooter wasn't trans, they were a divergent demigender two-spirit, so it doesn't count toward the stats"
 
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iluvatar5150

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Just put the address in your browser if you want the information.
yeah? How's that supposed to work? You linked to a file on your C: drive.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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That's why I noted that data can be framed different ways based on narrative.

Which is why I followed up by posting links discussing a risk assessment profile of sorts.

If we know that certain psychiatric conditions associated with increased homicidal ideation, then it's only reasonable to have concerns pertaining to a group that have rates of those conditions that far exceeds that of the general population.

We're not talking about a trivial difference here

View attachment 377527

If it were any other group or cohort (that wasn't considered to be aligned and protected class)
And we were talking about 12x the rate of schizophrenia, 10x the rate of dissociative disorder, 5x the rate of anxiety disorder, and 15x the rate of personality disorder

...And numerous high-profile recent incidents have involved people from that group

...And social trends and polling are indicating that there's a huge uptick in young people identifying with that group

Would anyone have any objections to the concerns?
About what? That trans people are at higher risk of suffering from psychiatric conditions? That is good to know for their doctors.
This can't be purely dismissed as "this is just conservative pearl clutching just like they did about gay people 10 years ago".

To your other part
In the case of the 2024 Lakewood Church shooting, the shooter (Genesee Moreno, female) had gone by the name Jeffrey at various points in the past, which is what fuels the speculation that there was perhaps some gender issues going on. In the case of the Perry HS shooting, the speculation on that was fueled by the fact that the social media accounts for the person used symbols, hashtags, and posted pictures that seemed to align with "genderfluid".
Where they trans (or non-cis?) or not? If he can't tell he can exclude them from the analysis. What does align with genderfluid mean, did they call themselves genderfluid or trans or anything else or not?
That's another area where the over-granularity of how many designations and labels there are now can be used to artificially deflate certain numbers as well. Really what they need to do is just break it out between Cis vs. non-Cis.
That is how he broke it down.
Otherwise it'll just keep being this shell game of "The shooter wasn't trans, they were a divergent demigender two-spirit, so it doesn't count toward the stats"
That is not applicable to John Lott's calculations, he didn't divide further then trans or non-trans. I haven't put up any argument of the sort you are proposing, please try to not mischaracterize what I write.
 
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