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2PhiloVoid

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Many of us have read the 18th verse of the 13th chapter of Revelation and thought about the possible meaning or identification of the Number of the Beast, 666.

To be honest, I'm not one of those persons who will come out and say that I know with any certainty what or who this now infamous number specifically refers to, but I'm inclined to agree with John Higgins in the following video below where he shares that he thinks it refers to King Solomon.

Higgins states that some of the way in which he approaches his interpretation of this verse of Revelation has been influenced by bible scholar, G.K. Beale, such as in the article from the Gospel Coalition linked below. Beale's work has also informed some of my interpretive approach to the Bible as well, but Higgins adds that he thinks there's something that G.K. Beale doesn't dig into deeply enough which might be needed here for further consideration.


666 - The Number of the Beast - The Number of Solomon? - The Bible As Art


So I'm wondering. How many of you out there think Higgins' understanding is correct? Or do you think he's off base in his interpretation?

The meaning of this one verse in the Bible [Revelation 13:18] has always intrigued me and if what John Higgins says is correct, it makes me pause for much deeper reflection over the possible connotations it might have for us as we attempt to live our daily lives, especially if we're trying to be more mindful of the Lord's will. It even gives me additional pause to think about ways that I might still be deficient in responding to God's Will in my own life or that countless other people out there in the world may still be deficient as well.

Is there more we need to be thinking of here?
 
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Douggg

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s there more we need to be thinking of here?
I watched the video. Although I don't know for certain the name of the beast, I don't think Solomon is correct.

I lean more toward Adonikam - who's children (descendants) coming out of Babylonian captivity numbered 666. Adonikam means - "my risen lord". Adonikam is Ezra 2:13 666 children. In Nehemiah, 667, (probably includes Adonikam himself in that number).

So in consideration that the beast will be a person who is killed and comes back to life as the world looks on, taking on the name "Adonikam" as a title of sorts meaning "my risen lord", may be the basis for demanding his followers to take the number 666 - just as the number of Adonikam's children (descendants) totaled 666..

So by receiving the number of the beast's name, 666, they metaphorically become children of the beast.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that Adonikam will be the actual name of the person - but an adopted title.
 
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RandyPNW

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This is my regular opinion...
[quoted]
There are many speculations, almost as old as the Bible text itself, regarding the meaning of 666 or to whom it is referencing. The Catholic Church states that Irenaeus (130 - 202 A.D.), an early church "father," wrote about whom this number might reference. He stated that the Greek word "Lateinos," when given their corresponding Greek values and added up (30 + 1 + 330 + 5 + 10 + 50 + 70 + 200), equals 666. The word itself means "Latin man."
https://www.[bless and do not curse...o not curse]/prophecy/what-does-666-mean.html

Lateinos is perhaps the equivalent of Latino. That is, the Antichrist will be Latin, or Roman.

King Lateinos was the founder of Rome and the Roman Empire. In the Greek, every letter has a numerical value. The numerical value for “Lateinos” is 666. Therefore, the beast is clearly identified as the Roman Empire, as the number 666 identifies the founder of the Roman Empire–Lateinos.

I don't believe any of the Church Fathers believed Nero was 666 or the Antichrist.
 
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Matt5

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Revelation 13:18
This calls for wisdom.
Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast,
for it is the number of a man.
That number is 666.

It doesn't say anything about his name but that is implied.

It calls for wisdom and insight. Mere gematria is not going to hack it.

You have to make the connection between Arabic and Greek. Then it's clear.
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 13:18
This calls for wisdom.
Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast,
for it is the number of a man.
That number is 666.

It doesn't say anything about his name but that is implied.
Actually, in Revelation 13:17, it indicates that the 666 will be the number of the beast's name

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

When we talk about Jesus, we often say "Jesus Christ". Is "Christ" part of Jesus's name or is "Christ" a title of Jesus ? I think title.

If the beast, upon coming back to life, adopts the name of "Adonikam" as a title, and not his literal name, would that not make sense ?

The uniqueness about "Adonikam" is it means "my risen lord". A name that the beast may want to go by, and everyone who follows him, as one of his children, take the same number of Adonikam's children in Ezra 2:13 - 666..


You have to make the connection between Arabic and Greek. Then it's clear.
I am not sure what you mean. But I don't think the person's literal name before he becomes the beast, the numerical values of the letters of his name will add to 666. (I could be wrong, remains to be seen).

I do go to the Gematrix online gematria calculator and see if any potential, suspected, person's name total 666. But so far - nothing.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I watched the video. Although I don't know for certain the name of the beast, I don't think Solomon is correct.

I lean more toward Adonikam - who's children (descendants) coming out of Babylonian captivity numbered 666. Adonikam means - "my risen lord". Adonikam is Ezra 2:13 666 children. In Nehemiah, 667, (probably includes Adonikam himself in that number).

So in consideration that the beast will be a person who is killed and comes back to life as the world looks on, taking on the name "Adonikam" as a title of sorts meaning "my risen lord", may be the basis for demanding his followers to take the number 666 - just as the number of Adonikam's children (descendants) totaled 666..

So by receiving the number of the beast's name, 666, they metaphorically become children of the beast.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that Adonikam will be the actual name of the person - but an adopted title.

Ok. I can understand that you'd hold this position regarding Ezra 2:13 since it has been noted as an 'option' among the contending interpretive positions for a while now. At the same time, I find it a little surprising because I think you're the first fellow Christian I've ever spoken to who actually affirms this position.

While I can grasp how it might be interpreted in the way that you say it can be, I have to say that it doesn't seem to have as many allusions of meaning buried within it as do the positions of associating 666 with either 1) King Solomon or with 2) Emperor Nero and the Latin tradition of Rome.

I won't say it's impossible that your position is correct. It might be right, but it seems reminiscent of the theology of the 18th century pastor, Jon Gill, whom I can't fall in line with, and so I tend to favor my "King Solomon" interpretation.

For me, the King Solomon option of interpretation of 666 makes more hermeneutical sense of various statements I find in the Old Testament, especially in the context of potential apostasy that Revelation hedges against and the need for God's people to hold firm in faith, resisting worldly philosophy and sin.

I definitely don't see King Solomon as a pre-figurement for Christ. He may have been a prophet, but I don't hink he was a figure we are to put on a pedestal as a virtuous example of godliness. He definitely wasn't that.
 
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BibleDaniel7

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The Bible study and numerology of 666 is interesting. However, for me, I think the more likely meaning of 666 is a reference to bar codes, and more recently RFIDs, which all start with 6, have 6 in the middle and end in 6. (You can see this on any bar code - the two thin lines in the beginning, middle and end match the lines for the number 6).

I am not saying barcodes, or RFID chips, are intrinsically wrong - they are harmless, and even useful, for how they are used at present. However, I am expecting at some future point for people to be required to take bar codes, or RFID chips, or some future form of bar code, on their body in order to buy and sell. That will be when they become extremely dangerous.

We should all be on the look out for this "mark of the beast", we really don't want to be deceived. I may be wrong in my interpretation, so stay alert, and be extremely mistrustful of anything people want to put on your right hand or forehead!
 
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Douggg

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Ok. I can understand that you'd hold this position regarding Ezra 2:13 since it has been noted as an 'option' among the contending interpretive positions for a while now. At the same time, I find it a little surprising because I think you're the first fellow Christian I've ever spoken to who actually affirms this position.

While I can grasp how it might be interpreted in the way that you say it can be, I have to say that it doesn't seem to have as many allusions of meaning buried within it as do the positions of associating 666 with either 1) King Solomon or with 2) Emperor Nero and the Latin tradition of Rome.

I won't say it's impossible that your position is correct. It might be right, but it seems reminiscent of the theology of the 18th century pastor, Jon Gill, whom I can't fall in line with, and so I tend to favor my "King Solomon" interpretation.

For me, the King Solomon option of interpretation of 666 makes more hermeneutical sense of various statements I find in the Old Testament, especially in the context of potential apostasy that Revelation hedges against and the need for God's people to hold firm in faith, resisting worldly philosophy and sin.

I definitely don't see King Solomon as a pre-figurement for Christ. He may have been a prophet, but I don't hink he was a figure we are to put on a pedestal as a virtuous example of godliness. He definitely wasn't that.
Hi 2PhiloVoid,

Do you think that the person's name who becomes the beast will be Solomon ?
 
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Douggg

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The Bible study and numerology of 666 is interesting. However, for me, I think the more likely meaning of 666 is a reference to bar codes, and more recently RFIDs, which all start with 6, have 6 in the middle and end in 6. (You can see this on any bar code - the two thin lines in the beginning, middle and end match the lines for the number 6).

I am not saying barcodes, or RFID chips, are intrinsically wrong - they are harmless, and even useful, for how they are used at present. However, I am expecting at some future point for people to be required to take bar codes, or RFID chips, or some future form of bar code, on their body in order to buy and sell. That will be when they become extremely dangerous.

We should all be on the look out for this "mark of the beast", we really don't want to be deceived. I may be wrong in my interpretation, so stay alert, and be extremely mistrustful of anything people want to put on your right hand or forehead!
One of the things to consider is that everything is tied to the beast's name. The number of his name. The mark of his name. And his name.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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This is my regular opinion...
[quoted]
There are many speculations, almost as old as the Bible text itself, regarding the meaning of 666 or to whom it is referencing. The Catholic Church states that Irenaeus (130 - 202 A.D.), an early church "father," wrote about whom this number might reference. He stated that the Greek word "Lateinos," when given their corresponding Greek values and added up (30 + 1 + 330 + 5 + 10 + 50 + 70 + 200), equals 666. The word itself means "Latin man."
You're right, Irenaeus seems to have elaborated on the meaning of this number. It's difficult for me to see a direct connection in his understanding of 666 with "Latin man" as a form of gematria, I do think he was onto something and that 666 can still be associated with the Roman Empire in one way or another.
Lateinos is perhaps the equivalent of Latino. That is, the Antichrist will be Latin, or Roman.
Oh, I don't know about that. Y'know, Ireneaus also thought that the Ten Kings (i.e. Ten Horns of the Beast) were yet to come after his own vantage point in time around the later 2nd century, and what we might expect to find that the Ten Kings each held the same ambitions and continued on with the same science that the Romans had promulgated so efficiently during their own previous Empire.
King Lateinos was the founder of Rome and the Roman Empire. In the Greek, every letter has a numerical value. The numerical value for “Lateinos” is 666. Therefore, the beast is clearly identified as the Roman Empire, as the number 666 identifies the founder of the Roman Empire–Lateinos.
So, are you a member of the Armstrong, Church of God? I'm just wondering since the article you cited comes from that denomination.
I don't believe any of the Church Fathers believed Nero was 666 or the Antichrist.

Yeah. It does seem that the reading of 666 as being associated with Nero only became prominent in the 1800's.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Hi 2PhiloVoid,

Do you think that the person's name who becomes the beast will be Solomon ?

No, I don't. I read the book of Revelation as an historically relevant encryption rather than in a "literal" way. This means that while I may identify key elements with different historical entities than you do here and there, I'm still within the Historic Premillennial tradition and there may very well be some key elements that you and I might hold in common to some extent.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Revelation 13:18
This calls for wisdom.
Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast,
for it is the number of a man.
That number is 666.

It doesn't say anything about his name but that is implied.

It calls for wisdom and insight. Mere gematria is not going to hack it.

You have to make the connection between Arabic and Greek. Then it's clear.

I agree with you that gematria isn't going to "hack it." But as to what the actual identification of either person or political organization is, it's difficult to tell. Some folks think the Beast is associated with the historical remnants of the Roman Empire. Others think it is associated with the Islamic peoples and their own Medieval and Modern empires.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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The Bible study and numerology of 666 is interesting. However, for me, I think the more likely meaning of 666 is a reference to bar codes, and more recently RFIDs, which all start with 6, have 6 in the middle and end in 6. (You can see this on any bar code - the two thin lines in the beginning, middle and end match the lines for the number 6).

I am not saying barcodes, or RFID chips, are intrinsically wrong - they are harmless, and even useful, for how they are used at present. However, I am expecting at some future point for people to be required to take bar codes, or RFID chips, or some future form of bar code, on their body in order to buy and sell. That will be when they become extremely dangerous.

We should all be on the look out for this "mark of the beast", we really don't want to be deceived. I may be wrong in my interpretation, so stay alert, and be extremely mistrustful of anything people want to put on your right hand or forehead!

Well, yeah. There's always the potential that there is a further very technological application of the Number of the Beast which goes beyond the old politics. .... it's kind of a scary thought and will be an unsettling event if it comes to that sort of thing. I'm not sure it will, but who knows?

The main thing is that we follow Christ by associating with His Truth and disassociating ourselves from the lies of the Beast(s), whoever they may be. Of course, I'm sure I don't need to tell any of you on this thread that. You already know.
 
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Matt5

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I agree with you that gematria isn't going to "hack it." But as to what the actual identification of either person or political organization is, it's difficult to tell. Some folks think the Beast is associated with the historical remnants of the Roman Empire. Others think it is associated with the Islamic peoples and their own Medieval and Modern empires.

John saw the actual mark: XEc. That mark looks a lot like the name of Allah in Arabic with two swords.

So no gematria required. You just have to connect Arabic with Greek numbers.

It turns out that there are two key players in the end-times according to Islamic prophecy (AI transcript summary): The Mahdi (Antichrist) and the Islamic Jesus (false prophet.)

One reason Iran wants nukes is to hasten the arrival of the Mahdi and Islamic Jesus.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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John saw the actual mark: XEc. That mark looks a lot like the name of Allah in Arabic with two swords.

So no gematria required. You just have to connect Arabic with Greek numbers.

It turns out that there are two key players in the end-times according to Islamic prophecy (AI transcript summary): The Mahdi (Antichrist) and the Islamic Jesus (false prophet.)

One reason Iran wants nukes is to hasten the arrival of the Mahdi and Islamic Jesus.

What's interesting to me is how the more or less Dispensationalist's position has changed over the past few decades from seeing the Beasts as an reinvigorated Roman Empire to one that is represented instead by the various Islamic caliphates.

For my part, I think I'll stick with the Roman-esque expectation for the time being rather than the newer one, particularly since I'm not Dispensationalist, and I disagree with Mark Hitchcock's position and those like him.

But who knows? I suppose my inclination to see 666 in association with King Solomon could also lend itself to a position like that of your own. The various caliphes had money; they had women; they have had a lot of political power (until 1924, anyway). Some, though, in the Middle East still have money and women, but not necessarily the political power once wielded in centuries past.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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.... well, that was an interesting turn of thought there, Mr. Heiser. Thank you for that additional bit of reconsideration. It makes me begin to see King Solomon on a whole other (lower) level.

 
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You're right, Irenaeus seems to have elaborated on the meaning of this number. It's difficult for me to see a direct connection in his understanding of 666 with "Latin man" as a form of gematria, I do think he was onto something and that 666 can still be associated with the Roman Empire in one way or another.

Oh, I don't know about that. Y'know, Ireneaus also thought that the Ten Kings (i.e. Ten Horns of the Beast) were yet to come after his own vantage point in time around the later 2nd century, and what we might expect to find that the Ten Kings each held the same ambitions and continued on with the same science that the Romans had promulgated so efficiently during their own previous Empire.

So, are you a member of the Armstrong, Church of God? I'm just wondering since the article you cited comes from that denomination.


Yeah. It does seem that the reading of 666 as being associated with Nero only became prominent in the 1800's.
No, I'm not a member of Armstrong at all, and I didn't even know that was the source of the article. It wouldn't be the 1st time I've gleaned valuable info from a very flawed group.

Sometimes I think cultic groups draw their strength from pointing out a single flaw in other more-orthodox Christian groups. We would do well to listen to the arguments, rather than just dismiss them because of their general reputation.

To give you an example. I draw upon Preterists to capitulate to their argument that much of the Olivet Discourse was focused upon the 1st centruy. I then learned that the Church Fathers held the same view--not Preterism, but something similar in some ways.

Also, I drew upon Dispensationalist teaching to learn about the importance of Israel in the endtimes. I'm not a Dispensationalist, and reject its Pretribulation Rapture, as well as its almost legalistic view of Israel. Nevertheless, their focus on Premillennialism and on Israel's future glory has been instructive to me.

So, even if Armstrong taught this, you will notice that he got it from a Church Father--not just from his own thinking. And it makes sense to me because much of the book of Revelation appears to be referencing the Roman Empire--something John could not just come out and state frankly because he had been imprisoned by Rome and would surely be viewed as rebellious if painting Rome as a "Great harlot," riding the Antichristian Empire.

There were, it seems to me, a number of coded references to "Rome," put in an evil, or neative, light. One would be the original Latin king adding up to 666. Another would be the "7 hills" mentioned in Rev 17. Another would be the 6th king mentioned in Rev 17, with ancient Rome being the 6th and present kingdom, and Antichristian Rome being 7th and last kingdom.

Antichrist himself is the "8th king." And it is Rome, I believe, who rides upon his Kingdom.

Finally, John mentions Rome (without saying it) as being the current city that rules over that region on earth. That has to be Rome.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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No, I'm not a member of Armstrong at all, and I didn't even know that was the source of the article. It wouldn't be the 1st time I've gleaned valuable info from a very flawed group.
Actually, even though they're not my cup of tea where choices of denomination, my understanding is that the Armstrong group began to lean more toward an acceptable Trinitarian locus for their theology.
Sometimes I think cultic groups draw their strength from pointing out a single flaw in other more-orthodox Christian groups. We would do well to listen to the arguments, rather than just dismiss them because of their general reputation.
I agree and I already do that.
To give you an example. I draw upon Preterists to capitulate to their argument that much of the Olivet Discourse was focused upon the 1st centruy. I then learned that the Church Fathers held the same view--not Preterism, but something similar in some ways.
Yep.
Also, I drew upon Dispensationalist teaching to learn about the importance of Israel in the endtimes. I'm not a Dispensationalist, and reject its Pretribulation Rapture, as well as its almost legalistic view of Israel. Nevertheless, their focus on Premillennialism and on Israel's future glory has been instructive to me.
Yep. Me too.
So, even if Armstrong taught this, you will notice that he got it from a Church Father--not just from his own thinking. And it makes sense to me because much of the book of Revelation appears to be referencing the Roman Empire--something John could not just come out and state frankly because he had been imprisoned by Rome and would surely be viewed as rebellious if painting Rome as a "Great harlot," riding the Antichristian Empire.
I wasn't deprecating the value of Ireneaus. If you think I was, you've may have misunderstood me. However, I personally see the 'Harlot' not as Rome, but as the entire Middle-Eastern presence of a not so theologically accurate Babylon. I tend to think Europe is the 1st Beast.............. but that's my view and I don't hold it dogmatically.
There were, it seems to me, a number of coded references to "Rome," put in an evil, or neative, light. One would be the original Latin king adding up to 666. Another would be the "7 hills" mentioned in Rev 17. Another would be the 6th king mentioned in Rev 17, with ancient Rome being the 6th and present kingdom, and Antichristian Rome being 7th and last kingdom.
Yeah, I don't think I'd differ too much in that view.
Antichrist himself is the "8th king." And it is Rome, I believe, who rides upon his Kingdom.
Maybe. It could also be that Middle-Eastern powers from the 6th century to the 20th were sitting on the back of the Beast, and she was always doing so dominatrix style, until the Beast got tired of it.................................................
Finally, John mentions Rome (without saying it) as being the current city that rules over that region on earth. That has to be Rome.

Yeah. I think we're in general agree, even if not in all of the smallest details. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. It's good to see I have overlap with you on some things.
 
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RandyPNW

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Actually, even though they're not my cup of tea where choices of denomination, my understanding is that the Armstrong group began to lean more toward an acceptable Trinitarian locus for their theology.

I agree and I already do that.

Yep.

Yep. Me too.

I wasn't deprecating the value of Ireneaus. If you think I was, you've may have misunderstood me. However, I personally see the 'Harlot' not as Rome, but as the entire Middle-Eastern presence of a not so theologically accurate Babylon. I tend to think Europe is the 1st Beast.............. but that's my view and I don't hold it dogmatically.

Yeah, I don't think I'd differ too much in that view.

Maybe. It could also be that Middle-Eastern powers from the 6th century to the 20th were sitting on the back of the Beast, and she was always doing so dominatrix style, until the Beast got tired of it.................................................


Yeah. I think we're in general agree, even if not in all of the smallest details. Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. It's good to see I have overlap with you on some things.
Yea, it's good to be speaking with an agreeable spirit. Take care! :)
 
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John saw the actual mark: XEc. That mark looks a lot like the name of Allah in Arabic with two swords.

So no gematria required. You just have to connect Arabic with Greek numbers.

It turns out that there are two key players in the end-times according to Islamic prophecy (AI transcript summary): The Mahdi (Antichrist) and the Islamic Jesus (false prophet.)

One reason Iran wants nukes is to hasten the arrival of the Mahdi and Islamic Jesus.
Is it hard to see what it says?
1779653856006.png
 
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