• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

The Opinion of a 21st Century Christian (Controversial)

NewTestamentChristian

Thy will be done.
Oct 25, 2024
73
62
28
Massachusetts
✟35,056.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
A disclaimer - These theses are entirely my opinion. I hope this sparks some dialogue. Feel free to provide constructive criticism.


Thesis 1. The Nicene Creed holds paramount importance as the foundational statement of Christian faith, affirming one Universal Church that encompasses Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox branches, united in core beliefs despite diverse traditions.


Thesis 2. Baptism is essential for salvation and is valid when administered by any church rooted in Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy, including Eastern Catholicism.


Thesis 3. Confession is essential for spiritual health, but it need not be directed to clergy; confessing before God and another human being is sufficient.


Thesis 4. The Bible is the inerrant word of God, and its interpretation should be guided by the teachings of the Church Fathers.


Thesis 5. Intercession of the saints is a valid practice, akin to asking a friend to pray for you, without implying any mediation on their part; Christ alone is the mediator, and superstitious expectations—such as praying to St. Anthony for lost items to appear magically—are misguided.


Thesis 6. Mary, the Mother of God, is neither the “mediatrix of all graces” nor “co-redemptrix;” the pre-Council of Trent version of the Hail Mary is preferable, though both versions are acceptable provided prayers to her do not seek sanctifying grace independent of Christ.


Thesis 7. Mental or contemplative prayer is necessary for salvation and accessible to all Christians in diverse forms, such as the Rosary, charismatic prayer, centering prayer, or the Jesus Prayer; a panentheistic view of God—wherein He encompasses the world and every creature bears a divine spark in the ground of its soul—is a biblical concept.


Thesis 8. The Eucharist serves as an aid to salvation but is not strictly required; the Real Presence is a biblical doctrine, whereby the faithful receive Christ’s presence in the ground of their soul through sacramental union or transignification, rejecting both the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and the view of mere symbolism.


Thesis 9. Justification by faith is a biblical doctrine and is connected to theosis.


Thesis 10. Christian mysticism, as exemplified in the works of Pseudo-Dionysius, John Scotus Eriugena, Meister Eckhart, Henry Suso, John Tauler, the Theologia Germanica, the Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, the Philokalia, and Father Thomas Merton, exerts a profound and valid influence on faith.


Thesis 11. The essence-energies distinction is not merely a Patristic concept but a biblical truth.


Thesis 12. Christian existentialism, as articulated by Søren Kierkegaard, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Nikolai Berdyaev, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Paul Tillich, and John Macquarrie, holds significant value.


Thesis 13. The ethical personalism developed by Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II) represents a sound philosophical and theological framework.


Thesis 14. The Church should actively engage with diverse philosophical traditions for apologetics, including those of Heraclitus, Platonism and Neoplatonism, Aristotelianism, Stoicism, Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, the Upanishads, phenomenology, German idealism (e.g. Schelling and Hegel), and analytic philosophy; strict observance Thomism as upheld by Traditionalist Catholics is false, though Thomism itself is acceptable, and no external philosophy should be canonized.


Thesis 15. The Pope is the leader of the Church of Rome and a figure of respect, but he is not the Vicar of Christ; papal supremacy is false.


Thesis 16. Papal infallibility is false.


Thesis 17. The ideas of predestination, total depravity, irresistible grace, unconditional election, and limited atonement are false; Calvinism and New Calvinism, in general, are rejected.


Thesis 18. The Wesleyan concept of entire sanctification parallels theosis but is attainable only in the next life, not the present; the notion of moral perfectionism achieved through God’s grace in this life is false.


Thesis 19. The Five Solas—Scripture alone, Christ alone, glory to God alone, grace alone, and faith alone—accurately reflect the teachings of the Early Church and, when properly understood, do not contradict Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy.


Thesis 20. Clerical celibacy should be entirely optional for clergy; divorce is permissible when God’s commandments have been violated; individuals should have full freedom to pursue monastic life.


Thesis 21. God’s grace is uncreated; the Thomist concept of created grace is false.

Thesis 22. Those having not known Christ and His Gospel, through living a life following a logos-based worldview or some equivalent, can be called an Unknowing Christian and are potentially saved by God’s love and mercy.
 

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
11,893
9,914
65
Martinez
✟1,232,289.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A disclaimer - These theses are entirely my opinion. I hope this sparks some dialogue. Feel free to provide constructive criticism.


Thesis 1. The Nicene Creed holds paramount importance as the foundational statement of Christian faith, affirming one Universal Church that encompasses Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox branches, united in core beliefs despite diverse traditions.


Thesis 2. Baptism is essential for salvation and is valid when administered by any church rooted in Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy, including Eastern Catholicism.


Thesis 3. Confession is essential for spiritual health, but it need not be directed to clergy; confessing before God and another human being is sufficient.


Thesis 4. The Bible is the inerrant word of God, and its interpretation should be guided by the teachings of the Church Fathers.


Thesis 5. Intercession of the saints is a valid practice, akin to asking a friend to pray for you, without implying any mediation on their part; Christ alone is the mediator, and superstitious expectations—such as praying to St. Anthony for lost items to appear magically—are misguided.


Thesis 6. Mary, the Mother of God, is neither the “mediatrix of all graces” nor “co-redemptrix;” the pre-Council of Trent version of the Hail Mary is preferable, though both versions are acceptable provided prayers to her do not seek sanctifying grace independent of Christ.


Thesis 7. Mental or contemplative prayer is necessary for salvation and accessible to all Christians in diverse forms, such as the Rosary, charismatic prayer, centering prayer, or the Jesus Prayer; a panentheistic view of God—wherein He encompasses the world and every creature bears a divine spark in the ground of its soul—is a biblical concept.


Thesis 8. The Eucharist serves as an aid to salvation but is not strictly required; the Real Presence is a biblical doctrine, whereby the faithful receive Christ’s presence in the ground of their soul through sacramental union or transignification, rejecting both the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and the view of mere symbolism.


Thesis 9. Justification by faith is a biblical doctrine and is connected to theosis.


Thesis 10. Christian mysticism, as exemplified in the works of Pseudo-Dionysius, John Scotus Eriugena, Meister Eckhart, Henry Suso, John Tauler, the Theologia Germanica, the Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, the Philokalia, and Father Thomas Merton, exerts a profound and valid influence on faith.


Thesis 11. The essence-energies distinction is not merely a Patristic concept but a biblical truth.


Thesis 12. Christian existentialism, as articulated by Søren Kierkegaard, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Nikolai Berdyaev, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Paul Tillich, and John Macquarrie, holds significant value.


Thesis 13. The ethical personalism developed by Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II) represents a sound philosophical and theological framework.


Thesis 14. The Church should actively engage with diverse philosophical traditions for apologetics, including those of Heraclitus, Platonism and Neoplatonism, Aristotelianism, Stoicism, Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, the Upanishads, phenomenology, German idealism (e.g. Schelling and Hegel), and analytic philosophy; strict observance Thomism as upheld by Traditionalist Catholics is false, though Thomism itself is acceptable, and no external philosophy should be canonized.


Thesis 15. The Pope is the leader of the Church of Rome and a figure of respect, but he is not the Vicar of Christ; papal supremacy is false.


Thesis 16. Papal infallibility is false.


Thesis 17. The ideas of predestination, total depravity, irresistible grace, unconditional election, and limited atonement are false; Calvinism and New Calvinism, in general, are rejected.


Thesis 18. The Wesleyan concept of entire sanctification parallels theosis but is attainable only in the next life, not the present; the notion of moral perfectionism achieved through God’s grace in this life is false.


Thesis 19. The Five Solas—Scripture alone, Christ alone, glory to God alone, grace alone, and faith alone—accurately reflect the teachings of the Early Church and, when properly understood, do not contradict Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy.


Thesis 20. Clerical celibacy should be entirely optional for clergy; divorce is permissible when God’s commandments have been violated; individuals should have full freedom to pursue monastic life.


Thesis 21. God’s grace is uncreated; the Thomist concept of created grace is false.

Thesis 22. Those having not known Christ and His Gospel, through living a life following a logos-based worldview or some equivalent, can be called an Unknowing Christian and are potentially saved by God’s love and mercy.
Thanks for sharing. My first observation with your thesis is that it starts, #1' with an ecumenical approach but then with each of the next points it begins to drastically divert to denominational specifics. So not sure how to approach your post.
Be blessed.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
17,019
1,952
✟1,049,113.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
Are you a member of the "universal Church" if you are part of these denominations, you mentioned or do you have to be "Christ like" to be a Christian?
Is "Christian" a title people give themselves or are all "Christians", mentees of Christ and disciples of Christ?
I am not seeing man's earthly objective coming through in your points, so what do you see as man's earthly objective?
 
Upvote 0

d taylor

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2018
14,554
6,166
61
Mississippi
✟352,088.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
Are you a member of the "universal Church" if you are part of these denominations, you mentioned or do you have to be "Christ like" to be a Christian?
Is "Christian" a title people give themselves or are all "Christians", mentees of Christ and disciples of Christ?
I am not seeing man's earthly objective coming through in your points, so what do you see as man's earthly objective?
-
If you click on the grey arrow it shows he is catholic
 
Upvote 0

jacks

Er Victus
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
4,399
3,680
Northwest US
✟888,238.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I like many of your points, unfortunately I don't know enough about most of them to comment intelligently.
One question How do you reconcile Thesis #2 with Thesis #22?

Thesis 2. Baptism is essential for salvation and is valid when administered by any church rooted in Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy, including Eastern Catholicism.

Thesis 22. Those having not known Christ and His Gospel, through living a life following a logos-based worldview or some equivalent, can be called an Unknowing Christian and are potentially saved by God’s love and mercy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Bauer
Upvote 0

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
3,845
867
Pacific NW, USA
✟192,120.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Thesis 1. The Nicene Creed holds paramount importance as the foundational statement of Christian faith, affirming one Universal Church that encompasses Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox branches, united in core beliefs despite diverse traditions.
Yes.
Thesis 2. Baptism is essential for salvation and is valid when administered by any church rooted in Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy, including Eastern Catholicism.
No.
Thesis 3. Confession is essential for spiritual health, but it need not be directed to clergy; confessing before God and another human being is sufficient.
Confession should not be a "rule." It is essential in particular for the victims of sin.

God ultimately forgives the sinner--not those who we ritually "confess" to. We do, however, as ambassadors of Christ have the ability to convey *God's forgiveness* to others who have confessed their sins to us.
Thesis 4. The Bible is the inerrant word of God, and its interpretation should be guided by the teachings of the Church Fathers.
I prefer to say the Scriptures are *reliable.* They certainly contain clerical or copyist errors. I do not believe fallible authors can convey "mistake-proof" documents. They can, however, convey in a reasonable way reliable truth. The Scripture authors were particularly gifted with this ability.
Thesis 5. Intercession of the saints is a valid practice, akin to asking a friend to pray for you, without implying any mediation on their part; Christ alone is the mediator, and superstitious expectations—such as praying to St. Anthony for lost items to appear magically—are misguided.
Asking dead saints to intercede is not valid. Asking living saints to intercede is entirely valid and desirable.
Thesis 6. Mary, the Mother of God, is neither the “mediatrix of all graces” nor “co-redemptrix;” the pre-Council of Trent version of the Hail Mary is preferable, though both versions are acceptable provided prayers to her do not seek sanctifying grace independent of Christ.
Elevating Mary in our *worship* is close to idolatry. We should venerate Christ, and not fallible human sinners. As John the Baptist said, he must decrease while Christ must increase.
Thesis 7. Mental or contemplative prayer is necessary for salvation and accessible to all Christians in diverse forms, such as the Rosary, charismatic prayer, centering prayer, or the Jesus Prayer; a panentheistic view of God—wherein He encompasses the world and every creature bears a divine spark in the ground of its soul—is a biblical concept.
Don't know what you're talking about? Is everybody made in the image of God? Yes. Do all have a conscience and have the ability to know God--even without being a Christian? Yes. In that sense we all have the "divine spark."

We can all pray. But to be Saved for Eternity we must choose to live by Christ alone. There are no other gods, and no other means by which to approach God.
Thesis 8. The Eucharist serves as an aid to salvation but is not strictly required; the Real Presence is a biblical doctrine, whereby the faithful receive Christ’s presence in the ground of their soul through sacramental union or transignification, rejecting both the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation and the view of mere symbolism.
God's Presence is in every Christian ritual and practice. But His presence is also everywhere in the universe. What is the point?

The Eucharist was purely a memorial of what Christ did in redeeming us from damnation. We participate in his spiritual life, and memorialize that need when we partake of the Communion.
Thesis 9. Justification by faith is a biblical doctrine and is connected to theosis.
Okay. Christian faith requires actual participation in Christ's virtue, as well as a full commitment to him as our "Way." We receive the Spirit of God as a "downpayment" on our Salvation. Our souls are converted to become aligned with Christ, so that we not only choose Christ but have now had embedded within us the *desire* to serve Christ.
Thesis 10. Christian mysticism, as exemplified in the works of Pseudo-Dionysius, John Scotus Eriugena, Meister Eckhart, Henry Suso, John Tauler, the Theologia Germanica, the Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross, Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection, the Philokalia, and Father Thomas Merton, exerts a profound and valid influence on faith.
I have a lot of respect for the mystics and scholars of the past who devoted their lives to promoting the Gospel in their particular skill set. I'm not familiar enough with them to comment further.
Thesis 11. The essence-energies distinction is not merely a Patristic concept but a biblical truth.
It sounds okay, but am not really familiar. There is an aspect of God that is transcendent, being that He is *before Creation.* But obviously He is within our realm of experience whenever His Word operates as such in our world.
Thesis 12. Christian existentialism, as articulated by Søren Kierkegaard, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Nikolai Berdyaev, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Paul Tillich, and John Macquarrie, holds significant value.
I think existentialism is concerned with how we know religious things. Like Descartes we can begin with "I am." Kierkegaard's sense of Christian subjectivity in opposition to purely observation is important in an age of religious externals or ceremonialism. True Faith is not always in evidence in Christian ritual, nor even in some instances of good works.
Thesis 13. The ethical personalism developed by Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II) represents a sound philosophical and theological framework.
I liked that Pope in a measured way, but am not a Catholic.
Thesis 14. The Church should actively engage with diverse philosophical traditions for apologetics, including those of Heraclitus, Platonism and Neoplatonism, Aristotelianism, Stoicism, Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, the Upanishads, phenomenology, German idealism (e.g. Schelling and Hegel), and analytic philosophy; strict observance Thomism as upheld by Traditionalist Catholics is false, though Thomism itself is acceptable, and no external philosophy should be canonized.
All philosophy should be viewed in a skeptical way because it is often mixed with a religious skepticism, attempting to find a basis for truth outside of Christian Faith. I believe True Knowledge can be found only in submission to Divine Revelation, or in other words, requires Faith.

Becoming acquainted with various philosophies can help us confront the issues of our time, and may aid in evangelizing those with good questions.
Thesis 15. The Pope is the leader of the Church of Rome and a figure of respect, but he is not the Vicar of Christ; papal supremacy is false.
Agree. An ecclesiastical leader may be appointed by God, but is often a matter of Divine concession, rather than full approval. Consider the appointment of Saul to king in ancient Israel. He was appointed by concession only.
Thesis 16. Papal infallibility is false.
Yes.
Thesis 17. The ideas of predestination, total depravity, irresistible grace, unconditional election, and limited atonement are false; Calvinism and New Calvinism, in general, are rejected.
I believe in Predestination and only partly agree with Calvinism. I reject "Total Depravity," because people, in their sinful state of being, are still able to freely accept and live by Christ.
Thesis 18. The Wesleyan concept of entire sanctification parallels theosis but is attainable only in the next life, not the present; the notion of moral perfectionism achieved through God’s grace in this life is false.
I partly agreee with Wesleyan Sanctification. We partake of Christ's perfection and as such God's essence. But our part in this formula is always flawed until our glorification.
Thesis 19. The Five Solas—Scripture alone, Christ alone, glory to God alone, grace alone, and faith alone—accurately reflect the teachings of the Early Church and, when properly understood, do not contradict Roman Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
Yes. The role played by tradition and by our own obedience do not detract from Christ's exclusive work of redemption on the cross.
Thesis 20. Clerical celibacy should be entirely optional for clergy; divorce is permissible when God’s commandments have been violated; individuals should have full freedom to pursue monastic life.
Yes, grace should not be sacrificed for tradition or for ecclesiastical rules. All sin can be forgiven, including divorce. Celibacy should not be imposed on classes of people, since it is a gift from God and not something people choose apart from God's gift.
Thesis 21. God’s grace is uncreated; the Thomist concept of created grace is false.
Not familiar, but sounds right.
Thesis 22. Those having not known Christ and His Gospel, through living a life following a logos-based worldview or some equivalent, can be called an Unknowing Christian and are potentially saved by God’s love and mercy.
Yes. There has always been a conscience universally within all men. They will be judged by their conscience, and not by a lack of knowledge. Their conscience is informed by the presence of Christ whether they fully know him or not.
 
Upvote 0

NewTestamentChristian

Thy will be done.
Oct 25, 2024
73
62
28
Massachusetts
✟35,056.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
-
If you click on the grey arrow it shows he is catholic
I was raised a Catholic not at all in a strict sense. I would like to change the label from Catholic to something else (but am unaware as to how; I put in a ticket). I have my own reservations about things that have gone on in the church.
 
Upvote 0

NewTestamentChristian

Thy will be done.
Oct 25, 2024
73
62
28
Massachusetts
✟35,056.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I like many of your points, unfortunately I don't know enough about most of them to comment intelligently.
One question How do you reconcile Thesis #2 with Thesis #22?

Thesis 2. Baptism is essential for salvation and is valid when administered by any church rooted in Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, or Eastern/Oriental Orthodoxy, including Eastern Catholicism.

Thesis 22. Those having not known Christ and His Gospel, through living a life following a logos-based worldview or some equivalent, can be called an Unknowing Christian and are potentially saved by God’s love and mercy.
I leave it up to God. That is why I said “potentially” saved. I like to think that people can naturally discern the Will of God outside of the knowledge of the Gospel… but I’m not God.
 
Upvote 0

jacks

Er Victus
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
4,399
3,680
Northwest US
✟888,238.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I leave it up to God. That is why I said “potentially” saved. I like to think that people can naturally discern the Will of God outside of the knowledge of the Gospel… but I’m not God.
Leaving it up to God, that is always a good option. :)

Though I'm still not clear are you leaving only the "potentially saved" up to God or are you also leaving the "Baptism is essential for salvation" up to God too?
 
Upvote 0

NewTestamentChristian

Thy will be done.
Oct 25, 2024
73
62
28
Massachusetts
✟35,056.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Elevating Mary in our *worship* is close to idolatry. We should venerate Christ, and not fallible human sinners. As John the Baptist said, he must decrease while Christ must increase.
To clarify, intercession in general is fine with me so long as it is devoid of superstitious thinking (as I said with St. Anthony and the lost car keys). The Early Church certainly believed in it but it was not so “magical.” I think you can venerate Mary and the saints by asking for intercession, but if this is taken to the extreme with a kind of “special” grace independent of Christ, that is close to idolatry.
The Eucharist was purely a memorial of what Christ did in redeeming us from damnation. We participate in his spiritual life, and memorialize that need when we partake of the Communion.
“For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed” (John 6:55). I simply cannot accept that Holy Communion is symbolic.
Don't know what you're talking about? Is everybody made in the image of God? Yes. Do all have a conscience and have the ability to know God--even without being a Christian? Yes. In that sense we all have the "divine spark."
I am referring to the practice of unceasing prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17). I know tons of Christians that don’t pray at all. Prayer is essential for our salvation.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5).
 
Upvote 0

NewTestamentChristian

Thy will be done.
Oct 25, 2024
73
62
28
Massachusetts
✟35,056.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Leaving it up to God, that is always a good option. :)

Though I'm still not clear are you leaving only the "potentially saved" up to God or are you also leaving the "Baptism is essential for salvation" up to God too?
I believe baptism is essential because Our Lord commands it by “water and the Spirit.” I don’t think it’s mere symbolism. And yes, just the potentially saved up to God.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: jacks
Upvote 0

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2021
3,845
867
Pacific NW, USA
✟192,120.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
To clarify, intercession in general is fine with me so long as it is devoid of superstitious thinking (as I said with St. Anthony and the lost car keys). The Early Church certainly believed in it but it was not so “magical.” I think you can venerate Mary and the saints by asking for intercession, but if this is taken to the extreme with a kind of “special” grace independent of Christ, that is close to idolatry.
The veneration of Mary and asking for the intercession of dead saints goes over the top for me as a person raised in a Protestant church and family. I prefer to *respect Mary,* along with all of the saints. Mary would, I think, be repulsed by the adoration sent her way via "prayers."

We should ask for prayer from living friends and saints. I don't know of any any biblical example in which a believer prayed to a dead saint asking for intercession or prayer? (The one exception would be asking intercession from Christ.)
“For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed” (John 6:55). I simply cannot accept that Holy Communion is symbolic.
You don't have to accept my view--I'm just stating what I believe. Saying "this wine is my blood" is an acceptable literary way of describing something as symbolic.

Saying "this wine is my blood" in a ceremonial act is the same thing as saying "this wine represents my blood." It is a more intense, shortened version of the same, indicating the importance of viewing the symbol as highly associated with what it represents.

In this case, the wine symbolically represents Jesus' blood with an intense association with what the blood was meant to do. It was meant to enable our participation with Christ in his death and resurrection, redeeming us from our sins.

So clearly, there is a spiritual element in this. And this is what has made its explanation so complex and controversial in Christian history. I personally prefer the "symbolic" explanation while at the same time emphasizing the spiritual aspect, as well.
I am referring to the practice of unceasing prayer (1 Thessalonians 5:17). I know tons of Christians that don’t pray at all. Prayer is essential for our salvation.
Saying "prayer is essential for our salvation" can be misleading. Prayer is not the means of obtaining our salvation. It is essential in our saved lives, because following salvation we are to pray.

We can certainly pray before salvation in order to get saved. But normally, a Christian, following salvation, should pray to keep his or her faith active and participating in everything God wants us to do.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5).
If our birth is of the water of childbirth that goes without saying. If our spiritual birth is through the purifying waters of Christian regeneration, yes.

But it is not Water Baptism that gets us saved. Rather, it is the water of Christ's regeneration that gets us saved.

Water Baptism does not achieve that. Rather, it is our act of public confession that we've alreay gotten saved through our acceptance of Christ as our Way.

Thanks for the frank discussion of what you believe.
 
Upvote 0