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Scripture is primarily a Love Letter from the Father rather than a rule book to learn and obey.

Carl Emerson

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God created us to thrive in His creation.

He gave us a few guidelines for your own good - not to bind us to law but to protect us from harm.

He had set up creation with natural laws and consequences for their violation.

There were Spiritual laws to be followed as well to help us avoid calamity with the unseen.

He cared about our wellbeing as a loving Father.

Sadly we blew it and ended up living in a giant mess of religion and rules rather than Love and understanding.

So He sent His Word in living form to demonstrate His Love and Wisdom, but our lives had become so twisted that we hated Him and rejected His message.

This did not change His love for us one tiny bit - the invitation to walk in life with Him still stands.

You want a blessed life? Then listen to the Fathers love letter and let it guide you in Truth and Peace.

Fire your doubts and questions upstairs and watch what happens.

This is not to suggest walking in this way with Him is always an easy life - and many prefer their own foolish ways.

Yet His invitation still stands -

Jeremiah 6:16
This is what the Lord says: “Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; Then you will find a resting place for your souls.

Hearing His livIng, loving, Word personally and directly was always the plan leading to peace beyond belief.
 

RamiC

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Most of the Bible is about the punishment given and the punishment to come of those who disobey God. More like a warning!
Jesus died on the Cross to enable forgiveness, to reconcile us to His eternal love. He did not do it as a warning, He was making an offer, not a threat.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Jesus died on the Cross to enable forgiveness, to reconcile us to His eternal love. He did not do it as a warning, He was making an offer, not a threat.

Yes... I hoped this issue would emerge...

The Gospel is the good news - "Get yourself saved or burn in Hell" was never the message.

Come unto me for I AM gentle in heart - at the same time, we come to a Holy God with fear and trembling because His awesomeness demands reverence and humility.

He seals our salvation with the wholesome 'fear' of Him - not though fear of punishment but rather the deep respect for His better ways.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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Jesus died on the Cross to enable forgiveness, to reconcile us to His eternal love. He did not do it as a warning, He was making an offer, not a threat.
I didn't say Jesus died on the cross as a warning or a threat nor did my words indicate he did.

The subject is the Bible....... the written word of God in the Bible, the scriptures are the warning to the disobedient. And the warnings are continuous telling what will happen to the disobedient from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22. And I'll add with a mixture of wrath and love.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Scripture as God's gift of Truth to mankind is given to bring good not harm to the reader.

Even unbelievers choosing to follow the good principles within will derive benefit in this life but not eternal reward.

The main theme is about hearing and walking with God in His blessing but this requires total surrender of self and few choose to walk in this Way.

Punishment is self inflicted as all are given conscience, or sense of right, which they heed or resist. Consequences follow as a natural result of resisting God's better way.

Sadly there are also Spiritual forces opposing God's good intent seeking to deceive and harm - ignoring God's advice can cause one to fall foul of their plans and suffer severely. This is not from God's hand.

What God created is good.

The Bible is good.

Open hearted readers receive Wisdom to navigate challenging circumstances in life.

There is always good to be gleaned from intended harm.

Forgiveness is key to finding the treasure in dark times. Is 45:3
 
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RamiC

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I didn't say Jesus died on the cross as a warning or a threat nor did my words indicate he did.
The Bible only exists because Jesus died on a cross, your belief that it's purpose is to warn people unless they obey overlooks this point.

The subject is the Bible....... the written word of God in the Bible, the scriptures are the warning to the disobedient. And the warnings are continuous telling what will happen to the disobedient from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22. And I'll add with a mixture of wrath and love.
The subject is the Bible as an expression of love...God's love.
 
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com7fy8

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He seals our salvation with the wholesome 'fear' of Him - not though fear of punishment but rather the deep respect for His better ways.
"Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?" (Romans 2:4)
 
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Hentenza

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I didn't say Jesus died on the cross as a warning or a threat nor did my words indicate he did.

The subject is the Bible....... the written word of God in the Bible, the scriptures are the warning to the disobedient. And the warnings are continuous telling what will happen to the disobedient from Genesis 3 to Revelation 22. And I'll add with a mixture of wrath and love.
And yet.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“And not only this, but we also celebrate in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

And is also amazing to see what commandments Jesus gave us. There is no mistake on Jesus two LOVE commandments. For our Lord is all about love not about retribution. It’s all about love not about the letter of the law.
 
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com7fy8

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Scripture is primarily a Love Letter from the Father rather than a rule book to learn and obey
First, of course, as you say >
He sent His Word in living form
So, God's Word is Jesus Himself . . . not only the written word. And we have Isaiah 55:11 >

"'So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
. .It shall not return to Me void,
. .But it shall accomplish what I please,
. .And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.'"
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(Isaiah 55:11)

We have Jesus as the living meaning of God's word. Plus, God's words "shall accomplish what I please". To me, this means God's word will do all that God Himself means by what He says. It's like how Jesus spoke for the air and sea to be still, and then all was so calm. His word accomplished what He meant . . . **not limited to how we might understand God's word**.

So, every thing in God's word will produce all *** > He < *** means; we can trust God with whatever He has us reading, that He will do with us all He means by this.

So, for an example >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This does not mean for us to pick, ourselves, which feelings and emotions and drives are to rule us. However, we submit to God Himself, and trust Him to personally rule us in His very own peace in our "hearts". And so we discover at every moment what God does with us in His peace. He is so greater and better than we are; so at each moment, even, in the ruling of His peace He will have us becoming and doing what is better than we could plan ahead of time. Because this is His word working this >

"the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe" > in 1 Thessalonians 2:13.

He constantly has us doing and discovering what is better than we can learn and understand in advance. His peace "surpasses all understanding", we have in Philippians 4:6-7. And "the love of Christ" "passes knowledge", we have in Ephesians 3:14-21.

Jesus told His disciples He would rise from the dead. They did not understand. So . . . after Jesus rose from the dead, His word came back to remind them of what He had said would happen. It can be like this, with God > He can give us His word, but we don't get it; however, after He does what He means, then He might remind us of what He told us and let us know that what He has done is what He meant.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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And yet.

“Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

“And not only this, but we also celebrate in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭3‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

And is also amazing to see what commandments Jesus gave us. There is no mistake on Jesus two LOVE commandments. For our Lord is all about love not about retribution. It’s all about love not about the letter of the law.
I agree and what you're saying is for those who are obedient - the disobedient, the unfaithful, the disbeliever will pay the penalties.

He is about love but he is also about vengeance. Vengeance is mine said the Lord....... Modern churches teach mainly about his love these days more and more and far too many leave out his wrath and the penalties that will be suffered by those who reject him...... I do understand why churches teach less of the wrath of God.....

Romans 13:4 tells the disobedient to be afraid, the Lord is the avenger, minister of God.
Romans 13:4 KJV - For he is the minister of God to thee - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Romans 13:4 - King James Version

Deuteronomy 32:35,Romans 12:17-19 NKJV - Vengeance is Mine, and recompense; - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 32:35, Romans 12:17-19 - New King James Version

What Does the Bible Say About God Is Your Avenger? What Does the Bible Say About God Is Your Avenger?

King David wrote: kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you perish in the way when his wrath is kindled but a little / Psalms 2:12........ The Lord said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool / Psalms 110:1

Romans 6:23 KJV - For the wages of sin is death; but the - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6:23 - King James Version

What Does the Bible Say About Wrath Of God? What Does the Bible Say About Wrath Of God?

What Does the Bible Say About Gods Judgment? What Does the Bible Say About Gods Judgment?

Revelation 14 KJV - And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14 - King James Version

Revelation 16 KJV - And I heard a great voice out of the - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 16 - King James Version

Revelation 18 KJV - And after these things I saw another - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 18 - King James Version

What Does the Bible Say About Wicked? What Does the Bible Say About Wicked?
 
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truthuprootsevil

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The Bible only exists because Jesus died on a cross, your belief that it's purpose is to warn people unless they obey overlooks this point.


The subject is the Bible as an expression of love...God's love



What is called the Bible is a combination of both Old and New Testament of the Hebrew Israelite Jew culture.

A few thousand years before the Bible as we know it was written the ancient Hebrews had the Old Testament.

And subject is the Bible is an expression of love God's love .... That still makes the subject about the Bible, I guess you can't see that.

And I have not denied the Bible is about God's love and it's more about his wrath and what will happen and has happened to those who disobey him, who reject him whether you agree or not.
 
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Hentenza

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I agree and what you're saying is for those who are obedient - the disobedient, the unfaithful, the disbeliever will pay the penalties.

He is about love but he is also about vengeance. Vengeance is mine said the Lord....... Modern churches teach mainly about his love these days more and more and far too many leave out his wrath and the penalties that will be suffered by those who reject him...... I do understand why churches teach less of the wrath of God.....

Romans 13:4 tells the disobedient to be afraid, the Lord is the avenger, minister of God.
Romans 13:4 KJV - For he is the minister of God to thee - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Romans 13:4 - King James Version
This verse is about doing evil to the authorities and has nothing to do about obedience to God.
These verses teach not to repay evil with evil but allow God to deal with evil. Believers are not evil.
What Does the Bible Say About God Is Your Avenger? What Does the Bible Say About God Is Your Avenger?
And what does this have to do with believers? God is indeed our avenger. He will avenge every evil done to the believers.

King David wrote: kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you perish in the way when his wrath is kindled but a little / Psalms 2:12........
Thus verse is s about nations and kings “kissing the son” (probably an allusion to the Messiah to come) to avoid destruction by His wrath. Again, what does this verse have to do with the believers.
The Lord said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool / Psalms 110:1
Yep. And those enemies are not believers.
Romans 6:23 KJV - For the wages of sin is death; but the - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6:23 - King James Version
Almost everyone that quotes this verse misses the preceding verse. Verses should not be quoted in isolation.

“But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

If someone does not have faith and die in their sins the wages are death. Christ paid for the sins of the world and now the believer has advocate in Christ. All Christians sin but their sin is imputed to the redemptive sacrifice of Christ. We walk on the Holy Spirit who guides us, convicts us, and takes us to repentance. This is what the law that you are so defending can not do or never did.
What Does the Bible Say About Wrath Of God? What Does the Bible Say About Wrath Of God?
Against evil. Believers are not evil.
What Does the Bible Say About Gods Judgment? What Does the Bible Say About Gods Judgment?
All will be judged. Read Rev. 22. However, for those whose foundation is in Christ (believers) Paul explains how God’s judgment will be dealt.

“According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith not by works so we could boast. What you are advocating is salvation by works. We are all miserable sinners and we don’t have the free will not to sin. That is why we needed a savior.
Revelation 14 KJV - And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 14 - King James Version
The wrath is against the unbeliever and the wicked not against the believers. You continue to take verses in isolation. Read the chapter. The first angel pours the vassel of wrath on those that have the mark of the beast. These are not believers. The other angels pour their wrath on earth things that affect the affect the throne and kingdom of the beast.
Revelation 16 KJV - And I heard a great voice out of the - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 16 - King James Version
Same as above.
Revelation 18 KJV - And after these things I saw another - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 18 - King James Version
This chapter is about the fall of Babylon and of the wicked kings. Against evil this has nothing to do with believers.
What Does the Bible Say About Wicked? What Does the Bible Say About Wicked?
The wicked are not the believers.

You have a Bible thumping approach to the Bible that misses the main point and result of Christ redemptive sacrifice in the cross. We don’t live in the old covenant law, we live in the new covenant of grace. Grace is free and you can’t work for it.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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This verse is about doing evil to the authorities and has nothing to do about obedience to God.

These verses teach not to repay evil with evil but allow God to deal with evil. Believers are not evil.

And what does this have to do with believers? God is indeed our avenger. He will avenge every evil done to the believers.


Thus verse is s about nations and kings “kissing the son” (probably an allusion to the Messiah to come) to avoid destruction by His wrath. Again, what does this verse have to do with the believers.

Yep. And those enemies are not believers.

Almost everyone that quotes this verse misses the preceding verse. Verses should not be quoted in isolation.

“But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭22‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

If someone does not have faith and die in their sins the wages are death. Christ paid for the sins of the world and now the believer has advocate in Christ. All Christians sin but their sin is imputed to the redemptive sacrifice of Christ. We walk on the Holy Spirit who guides us, convicts us, and takes us to repentance. This is what the law that you are so defending can not do or never did.

Against evil. Believers are not evil.

All will be judged. Read Rev. 22. However, for those whose foundation is in Christ (believers) Paul explains how God’s judgment will be dealt.

“According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each person must be careful how he builds on it. For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭10‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith not by works so we could boast. What you are advocating is salvation by works. We are all miserable sinners and we don’t have the free will not to sin. That is why we needed a savior.

The wrath is against the unbeliever and the wicked not against the believers. You continue to take verses in isolation. Read the chapter. The first angel pours the vassel of wrath on those that have the mark of the beast. These are not believers. The other angels pour their wrath on earth things that affect the affect the throne and kingdom of the beast.

Same as above.

This chapter is about the fall of Babylon and of the wicked kings. Against evil this has nothing to do with believers.

The wicked are not the believers.

You have a Bible thumping approach to the Bible that misses the main point and result of Christ redemptive sacrifice in the cross. We don’t live in the old covenant law, we live in the new covenant of grace. Grace is free and you can’t work for it.
I see you have totally and I do mean totally went off base with the reasonings of why I posted those and totally ignored the reasonings I gave.

I never said we are to take vengeance ///// I never scriptures I posted they were about those who are obedient .... the scriptures I posted says "God says vengeance is mine" not for us to take vengeance as you so clearly misunderstood ....... The scriptures I posted is about the wrath of God on the disobedient _ disobedient _ disobedient _ as you so clearly misunderstood and since you are a misunderstanding person or you just totally ignore what it said

Thank you for the conversation and I will try to avoid any with you in the future.
God bless
 
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