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DragonFox91

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I was reading a little booklet I have on what the Bible says on life on other planets. It started w/ some history. Here are my notes:

Scientists are interested in ET's.
Just b/c a flying object is unidentified, that doesn't mean it's aliens
Once people believed the sun is a star & there's other stars w/ other planets, it became possible to think of life elsewhere.
Mormons started to teach the God of the Bible was born on another planet. Sci-fi stories expanded in the early 1900s. There were sci-fi movies. People believed in Martian invasions b/c they already believed Martians existed. Scientists were inspired by the sci-fi stories & thought they saw civilizations on Mars.
We can trace people seeing flying saucers to Kenneth Anrold seeing them in 1947.

I've been listening to videos on how Satan manipulates thru history & I find ties there w/ the booklet is discussing.
I finished the little booklet. It concluded that Satan thru pop culture is trying to take people away from the Bible w/ all the alien stories & this will damn a lot of people, but it's okay to consume some of it as long as you keep a Biblical worldview.

I have a pile of books on the go, but this is arriving tomorrow and I can't wait.


"Many people have a sense that the Western World is in decline and that our society is fragmenting around us. Many people have an ominous sense that we are living at the end of a civilised age and are moving into something far less pleasant and humane. But fewer people understand why this is happening.

In this new book, Jamie Franklin argues that the reason for this decline is because we have jettisoned the underlying belief system that gave birth to the Western world - and the Western mind - in the first place: Christianity. He argues that there is a logical and inevitable link between the decline of Christianity and the decline of the West.

As our metaphysical commitment to Christianity declines, so does our commitment to the benefits that came to us from Christianity. Through captivating argument, he demonstrates how this plays out in the scientific realm, which has abandoned objectivity for dogmatism; in the ethical realm, which is eliminating humanity from its own formulations; and in the political scene, as it moves away from the democratic principle towards a neo-marxist influenced, nihilistic technocracy that threatens to eliminate human culture, distinctiveness and agency in the pursuit of a globalist utopia.

In so doing, Franklin touches on contemporary political conversations that are exercising the public imagination such as abortion, euthanasia, transhumanism, and the rebirth of the totalitarian impulse in Western democracies.

Only a revival of Christianity can reverse these trends. This book urges the Church to take seriously its own commitment to the metaphysical and ethical presuppositions of its own faith. But also acknowledges the great challenge that Christianity faces as it threatens to be overwhelmed by the rising tide of secular nihilism that may yet engulf the Western World."
This is interesting.

I saw a post the other day human cloning is being done, & I thought 'silly' at first, but then 'how come that's not debated anymore? There used to be a time when that was discussed & debated. Is the reason it's not being discussed anymore is b/c it's being done? When things aren't debated anymore, the issue has been lost.' We must always be contending & defending.

Maybe it's all conspiracy theory due to God keeping it from being even more wicked then what it could be, but who truly knows what's going on.
 
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FredVB

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What are your thoughts if you dont mind?

Well, it is long, and it would be better to speak on it when I finish, but I can speak to what I think so far. I chose to read through it because Jude 1:14-15 quotes from the first Book of Enoch attesting to it being the authentic testimony of Enoch, 2 Peter 2:4 used a passage right from it as well. In the beginning Christian believers, and the apostles, were familiar with the Book of Enoch. And there is no answer to where in scriptures now recognized for which Jesus could say, as he did, it is shown that angels in heaven do not marry, ... just when he had told Sadducees they knew not the scriptures. It would have destroyed his point if he was just saying things they did not know then that were not from scriptures. Mark 12:25-25

So I find this overlap, but yet more that I haven't read from any scriptures or anything before, while I have still not found anything contradicting what the Bible clearly says. It has some things to have what was thought differently from the Bible needing to be reconsidered. Specifically there are the giants. It is not clear how big they really were. I would expect though that they might be eight or nine feet tall, maybe even ten feet, but not more. I do not know what an ell is, or that anyone knows.
 
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FredVB

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I never did find anywhere that was saying what measurement an ell is, it seems that it never was a measurement.


Book of Enoch originally probably did not say how tall the giants were. Contrary to Charles, Schodde and Laurence, Enoch 7:2, contains a scribal corruption in the Ethiopic.

On this point, some modern textual scholars agree that the Greek version of Enoch 7:2 is closer to original.

Nickelsburg/Vanderkam translates that verse from a Greek text which says nothing about the height of the giants.

“And they conceived from them and bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud- and they were growing in accordance with their greatness”.

Bottom line is, originally, the Book of Enoch very likely did not say how tall the giants were.

What was the basis of the mistake in Enoch 7:2? It is a known fact that proper names (like “Elioud”) and numbers (for example 3,000 ells) suffer the most from scribal copying and translating over the millennia. Presumably, in ancient times a scribal copyist did not understand the proper name for Elioud, and assumed it was referring to the “ell” telling us how tall were the giants.

To be clear, “3,000 ells” in the Charles translation, is not an error of English translation. It began with an ancient copyist's mistake which changed a verse about the “3” races of Watcher offspring, (one of those races was called “Elioud”), into a comment about the giant's height. “Elioud” became “ells” and “3” became “3,000” in my understanding. George Nickelsburg and James Vanderkam (as do Daniel Olson, and John Baty) translate a Greek fragment (Synchellus) for the verse to restore a more original reading. The only mistake by translators was in not discerning the ancient scribal error and ferreting out the better reading. Perhaps the scribal /copyist error WAS a translation error if when the error was introduced the scribe was not able to translate the verse and erred in that way. But in the English translations they do not seem to be in error, just in poor selection of their underlying, eclectic text for use before translating to English.

It is interesting to note, that John Baty, in his 1839 translation of Enoch, very early on detected and solved this textual problem!

How Enoch 7:2 has Suffered in English Translation from 1883 to the present:
John Baty had it right in 1839



“And there were born unto them three sorts, the first were great giants, and to the giants were born Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud.”


Robert Henry Charles reverted to the problematic text in 1883


“And they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells.”


Nickelsburg / Vanderkam asserted the fix again in 2004


“And bore to them great giants. And the giants begot Nephilim, and to the Nephilim were born Elioud.”​

Besides all this, in Biblical interpretation, we believe every significant matter should be substantiated by two or three witnesses, there seems to be no reason to believe the pre-flood giants were different in size than the post-flood ones.

 
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