Grace Has a Name

BrotherJJ · Sunday at 12:32 PM

Eternal life isn't earned or achieved; it's received through the One who gives it.

Grace = God's unmerited/unearned/undeserved favor

Jn 3:16 God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
(NOTE: Believers in Christ's sin‑atoning death & resurrection have everlasting life - present tense.)

Jn 3:18 He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NOTE: Unbelievers stand condemned > present tense < because they reject the Son.))

Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son "hath" everlasting life & he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
(NOTE: HATH/HAVE = present tense. Eternal life is received by faith alone, no repentance lists, no rituals, no works.)

Faith alone is needed. Scripture never adds repentance lists, obedience requirements, baptism, tithing, works, or ""until you slip up"" conditions. Believe & trust in Christ's sin‑atoning death & resurrection & you have - present tense, right now, everlasting life.

Jn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
(NOTE: Believers have eternal life right now.)

Christ: The Author & Finisher of Faith

Heb 12:2 Looking to Jesus the author & finisher of our faith;
(NOTE: He begins it & He completes it.)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, """that we might be justified by the faith """OF""" Christ""", & not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
(NOTE: Justification = God judicially declaring us righteous because of Christ's obedience, not ours.)

2 Thes 3:3 The Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil
(NOTE: We stand by His faithfulness, not our performance.)

Ephesians 2: Grace Saves, Faith Receives, Works Follow

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]
(NOTE: Vs 8 Grace is a compassionate GIFT from God (you are a sinner that deserves death - Rom 6:23) His Grace enables you to access Christ's sin atonement. Vs 9 No works are involved/allowed beyond faith placed in Christ's work. So its all about how great He is, not how great we think might think our works are)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works
(NOTE: Works follow salvation - they never produce it.)

Rom 16:26 Now revealed & made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(NOTE: Faith produces obedience - not the other way around.)

Jude 24 To him that is able to keep you from falling & present you faultless before the presence of his glory with great joy
(NOTE: Jesus is our Advocate, - 1 Jn 2:1 & Heb 9:15 — He is also the One to whom all judgment has been given — Jn 5:22, 27. The One who defends you is the same One who judges you. Verdict for the believer: NOT GUILTY)

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
(NOTE: That saving name is Jesus the Christ.)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
(NOTE: Grace appeared in Christ Himself - grace has a name.)

GRACE HAS A NAME — JESUS THE CHRIST

Jan001 · Monday at 10:14 AM

Who did Jesus approve for eternal in Matthew 25:31-46?

Jesus approved for eternal life only the doers of his word and not the hearers only. James 1:22

He approved for eternal life the people who imitated/followed him in doing good works to help other people. John 10:26-28, Luke 9:23, 1 Corinthians 11:1

Jesus did not approve for eternal life the people who called him their "Lord" but neglected to do what he told them to do. Luke 6:16-49, Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14

BrotherJJ · Monday at 3:25 PM

Jan001 said:
Who did Jesus approve for eternal in Matthew 25:31-46?

Jesus approved for eternal life only the doers of his word and not the hearers only. James 1:22

He approved for eternal life the people who imitated/followed him in doing good works to help other people. John 10:26-28, Luke 9:23, 1 Corinthians 11:1

Jesus did not approve for eternal life the people who called him their "Lord" but neglected to do what he told them to do. Luke 6:16-49, Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14

You're collapsing 2 categories Scripture keeps separate: how a person is saved & what saved people look like.

Matthew 25 does not teach salvation by works—the ""sheep"" are already called righteous before a single work is mentioned (Matt 25:37), showing their actions are evidence, not the cause.

Jesus is consistent: ""He that believeth - hath everlasting life"" (Jn 6:47),
""He that believeth is not condemned"" (Jn 3:18)
""Whoever believes - receives remission of sins"" (Acts 10:43).
Paul reinforces the same truth: Justified by the faith of Christ & ""not by works"" (Gal 2:16)
""Not of works, lest any man should boast"" (Eph 2:9).

James 1:22 addresses spiritual maturity among believers (James 1:18), not how to obtain eternal life.

The people rejected in Matthew 7:21–23 were rejected because they trusted their works > ""Have we not done many wonderful works?"" > not because they lacked them.

Scripture is unified: faith receives salvation; works reveal it. Salvation is by grace through faith & works follow as the fruit, never the root (Eph 2:10).

Jan001 · Monday at 4:10 PM

BrotherJJ said:
You're collapsing 2 categories Scripture keeps separate: how a person is saved & what saved people look like.

How is a person first saved?

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

How does a person continue to be saved?

One example:

1 Timothy 2:15
Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Salvation is not a one-time event. It is a lifelong process.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

BrotherJJ said:
Matthew 25 does not teach salvation by works—the ""sheep"" are already called righteous before a single work is mentioned (Matt 25:37), showing their actions are evidence, not the cause.

It was known before the foundation of the world which people would be faithful until they died. They were separated into sheep and goats according to this foreknowledge. Matthew 25:34

BrotherJJ said:
Jesus is consistent: ""He that believeth - hath everlasting life"" (Jn 6:47),
""He that believeth is not condemned"" (Jn 3:18)
""Whoever believes - receives remission of sins"" (Acts 10:43).

A person does not believe in God if he does not obey his commandments.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

2 Thessalonians 1:7b-9
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

BrotherJJ said:
Paul reinforces the same truth: Justified by the faith of Christ & ""not by works"" (Gal 2:16)
""Not of works, lest any man should boast"" (Eph 2:9).

Jesus saves us first by as his gift to us. Ephesians 2:8-9
Then we must do the works that the Father has prepared for us to do in order to inherit eternal life. Ephesians 2:10, Luke 6:46, Luke 13:24-27

BrotherJJ said:
James 1:22 addresses spiritual maturity among believers (James 1:18), not how to obtain eternal life.

Obedience in doing good works leads to eternal life. Disobedience to God's commandments (evil works) leads to hellfire.

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

BrotherJJ said:
The people rejected in Matthew 7:21–23 were rejected because they trusted their works > ""Have we not done many wonderful works?"" > not because they lacked them.

These people led a double life.

They were rejected because in public, they did good deeds, but in private, they did evil deeds.

Matthew 15:8
“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

Mark 7:20-22
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.

BrotherJJ · Monday at 5:46 PM

Jan001 said:
How is a person first saved?

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

How does a person continue to be saved?

One example:

1 Timothy 2:15
Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

Salvation is not a one-time event. It is a lifelong process.

Acts 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

It was known before the foundation of the world which people would be faithful until they died. They were separated into sheep and goats according to this foreknowledge. Matthew 25:34

A person does not believe in God if he does not obey his commandments.

1 Peter 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

2 Thessalonians 1:7b-9
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Jesus saves us first by as his gift to us. Ephesians 2:8-9
Then we must do the works that the Father has prepared for us to do in order to inherit eternal life. Ephesians 2:10, Luke 6:46, Luke 13:24-27

Obedience in doing good works leads to eternal life. Disobedience to God's commandments (evil works) leads to hellfire.

John 5:28-29
Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

These people led a double life.

They were rejected because in public, they did good deeds, but in private, they did evil deeds.

Matthew 15:8
“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

Mark 7:20-22
He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.

A lot of verses are being quoted, but the key to understanding them is recognizing that the Bible uses the word salvation in more than one way.

The apostles consistently distinguish how a person is 1st saved (justification). From how saved people grow (sanctification). And how God completes His work at the end (glorification).

When those categories are kept separate, every verse falls into place. Verses like Mark 16:16, Romans 10:9–10 & Acts 10:43 describe how a person enters salvation—by believing the gospel.

Verses about continuing, enduring, obeying, or being faithful (Acts 14:22; Rom 11:22; 1 Tim 2:15) describe the life of a believer, not the basis of justification. Paul is explicit that justification is a completed act received by faith apart from works (Rom 4:5; Rom 3:28; Eph 2:8–9; Titus 3:5).

Works come afterward as the fruit/evidence of salvation (Eph 2:10) not the cause of it.

Judgment passages like Matthew 25 & John 5:28–29 show that works reveal the nature of a person’s faith, not that eternal life is earned by performance.

The apostles always keep the order the same: grace > faith > justification > obedience > final reward.

Mixing those categories makes obedience the cause of salvation instead of its evidence. Something neither Jesus nor the apostles ever teach.

Jan001 · Monday at 6:00 PM

BrotherJJ said:
The apostles always keep the order the same: grace > faith > justification > obedience > final reward.

Mixing those categories makes obedience the cause of salvation instead of its evidence. Something neither Jesus nor the apostles ever teach.

I agree that obedience is not the cause of salvation.

However, disobedience and unrepentance are the cause of the loss of salvation.

BrotherJJ · Monday at 7:27 PM

Jan001 said:
I agree that obedience is not the cause of salvation.

However, disobedience and unrepentance are the cause of the loss of salvation.

Those 2 claims cannot both be true. If disobedience causes you to lose salvation, then obedience is what keeps you saved. Which means obedience is the cause of salvation after all.

That directly contradicts Paul's teaching that justification is ""to him that worketh not"" (Rom 4:5), ""apart from works"" (Rom 3:28) & ""not of works"" (Eph 2:9).

Scripture never teaches ""saved by grace but kept by performance."" The same grace that saves is the grace that keeps (Rom 5:1–2; Phil 1:6; 1 Thess 5:23–24).

Disobedience affects fellowship, fruitfulness & reward, but never the believer's justification. If salvation can be lost by works, then salvation was never by grace to begin with & scripture is clear that what God gives by grace cannot be undone by human failure. Salvation, once received, given cannot be lost (Rom 1:29). Salvation - Eternal life is explicitly called a gift (Rom 6:23).

Jan001 · Monday at 9:30 PM

BrotherJJ said:
Disobedience affects fellowship, fruitfulness & reward, but never the believer's justification. If salvation can be lost by works, then salvation was never by grace to begin with & scripture is clear that what God gives by grace cannot be undone by human failure. Salvation, once received, given cannot be lost.

What do you think the following Scripture verses meant to these Jewish/Hebrew Christians?

Hebrews 4:6, 11
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,......11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

It seems to me that the writer of Hebrews is stating that disobedient Christians will not enter into eternal rest with God. They will be condemned to hellfire.

John 5:28-30
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

BrotherJJ · Monday at 10:13 PM

Jan001 said:
What do you think the following Scripture verses meant to these Jewish/Hebrew Christians?

Hebrews 4:6, 11
Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience,......11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

It seems to me that the writer of Hebrews is stating that disobedient Christians will not enter into eternal rest with God. They will be condemned to hellfire.

John 5:28-30
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Both passages you quoted collapse the same categories you've been collapsing all along. In Scripture, disobedience can cost a believer fellowship, fruitfulness, joy,& reward, but never justification. Hebrews & John 5 don't contradict that; they reinforce it once the categories are kept straight.

Hebrews 4 is not about losing salvation. It's about missing God’s rest
The writer is comparing two groups: Israel in the wilderness (saved out of Egypt, redeemed by blood, yet disobedient). Believers today (saved by Christ, called to walk in faith)

Israel's failure to enter the land was not loss of redemption, they were already redeemed by the Passover blood. Their failure was loss of rest, reward, inheritance & fellowship, not loss of salvation.

That's exactly the author’s point: They ""did not enter because of disobedience"", meaning they forfeited rest, not redemption. ""Let us make every effort to enter that rest"". Meaning believers can miss out on God's rest in this life through unbelief & disobedience.

Nothing in Hebrews 3–4 says a believer loses eternal life. It says a believer can lose rest, joy, fruitfulness & reward. The same thing Paul teaches in 1 Cor 3:15. If Hebrews 4 meant ""lose salvation,"" then Israel lost salvation in Numbers 14, which no one believes.

When Hebrews 4 warns about people """perishing""" or ""falling short,"" it’s not talking about believers going to hell. Scripture itself shows that the word perish is often used for loss, ruin, or destruction of something valuable, not eternal damnation.

Here are the same examples explained in simple biblical terms: Wineskins ""perish"" in Matthew 9:17. meaning they burst and are ruined. That's not hell; that's loss of usefulness. A lost sheep is said to ""perish"" in Luke 15:4, meaning it's in danger, wandering & needs rescue. Not hell; it's about being off the path. Food ""perishes"" in John 6:27. meaning it spoils & becomes worthless. Not hell; it's about things losing value.

In all 3 cases, the word describes ruin, loss, or destruction of something good, not eternal condemnation.

So when Hebrews uses the same language, it's warning believers about losing God's rest, joy, fruitfulness & rewards , not losing salvation.(see 1 Cor 3:11–15)

The Bible uses ""perish"" in more than one way & the context always tells you which one is meant. Hebrews 3–4 is talking about believers missing out on God's rest (just like Israel missed the Promised Land), not believers losing eternal life.

John 5:28–29 is not about salvation by works, it's about two resurrections. Jesus is not describing causes, He's describing outcomes:

""Those who have done good"" = believers whose lives show the fruit of salvation. ""Those who have done evil"" = unbelievers whose lives show the fruit of unbelief.

This is exactly what Jesus says in John 3:18: The believer ""is not condemned"" - The unbeliever ""is condemned already"" because he has not believed. John 5 is not teaching salvation by works.

It is teaching judgment according to works, which is the consistent NT pattern: Works reveal the heart - Works do not save the heart.

If John 5 taught salvation by works, it would contradict John 3:16–18, John 5:24, John 6:47 & the entire book of Romans.

The consistent NT pattern never changes - Grace > Faith > Salvation > Obedience > Reward.

If salvation can be lost by works, then salvation was never by grace to begin with & Paul explicitly denies that (Rom 4:5; Eph 2:8–9; Titus 3:5).

Jan001 · Tuesday at 12:58 PM

BrotherJJ said:
If salvation can be lost by works, then salvation was never by grace to begin with

Adam's sin estranged mankind from God. Later, God sent his own son to earth to repair this estrangement that Adam's sin had caused. He sent his son to offer himself as a blood sacrifice, which was the only remedy for this estrangement.

God saved the people who believed in his son Jesus Christ through the water baptism that Jesus commanded in Mark 16:15-16.

What will God do to a person who later rejects this precious gift of salvation? He rejects this precious gift when he returns to his former sinful life instead of following/imitating Jesus in obedience until his death. A person who returns to his sinful life spurns both the gift giver and the gift. Unless he repents before he dies, he will not inherit eternal life.

Hebrews 10:28-31
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

A Christian who returns to his sinful life and does not repent before death will suffer a worse punishment in hellfire than that of a person who never believed.

BrotherJJ · Tuesday at 2:40 PM

Jan001 said:
Adam's sin estranged mankind from God. Later, God sent his own son to earth to repair this estrangement that Adam's sin had caused. He sent his son to offer himself as a blood sacrifice, which was the only remedy for this estrangement.

God saved the people who believed in his son Jesus Christ through the water baptism that Jesus commanded in Mark 16:15-16.

What will God do to a person who later rejects this precious gift of salvation? He rejects this precious gift when he returns to his former sinful life instead of following/imitating Jesus in obedience until his death. A person who returns to his sinful life spurns both the gift giver and the gift. Unless he repents before he dies, he will not inherit eternal life.

Hebrews 10:28-31
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

A Christian who returns to his sinful life and does not repent before death will suffer a worse punishment in hellfire than that of a person who never believed.

The passages you quoted (Hebrews 10, 2 Peter 2, Romans 1) are real warnings, but none of them teach that a believer loses salvation or becomes un‑saved. They describe people who were exposed to truth, influenced by truth, convicted by truth, and even outwardly reformed by truth - but never born again. Scripture is consistent: salvation is by grace through faith, not by works (Eph 2:8–9). If salvation could be lost by returning to sin, then salvation was never by grace to begin with (Rom 11:6).

Hebrews 10:29 describes someone who was sanctified in the sense of being set apart by exposure to the covenant community - not regenerated. The writer is warning professing Jews who were considering abandoning Christ & returning to temple sacrifices. The whole book of Hebrews contrasts profession versus possession. The warning is real, but it is not about losing salvation; it is about rejecting the only sacrifice that saves (Heb 10:26)

2 Peter 2:20–22 describes people who escaped the pollutions of the world through knowledge - not through regeneration. Peter says they return to their old nature because their nature was never changed. A dog returns to vomit because it is still a dog; a sow returns to mud because it is still a sow. The nature never changed. This passage is about false teachers & false converts, not born‑again believers losing salvation.

Romans 1 describes unbelievers being given over to their desires - not believers losing salvation. These people did not like to retain God in their knowledge (Rom 1:28). They suppress truth, but they were never sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13–14). Nothing in Romans 1 says they were saved and then became reprobate. It describes the unbelieving world in general.

The New Testament is clear: those who truly believe are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30). Jesus said His sheep shall never perish & no one can pluck them out of My hand (John 10:28–29). Eternal life is eternal - not temporary. The warnings in Hebrews, 2 Peter & Romans are directed at those who hear truth, taste truth & walk among believers, but never actually believe unto salvation.

A Christian does not become reprobate. A reprobate is someone who rejects God from the start. A believer is someone God has already justified, sealed & adopted. Those are two different categories.

Jan001 · Tuesday at 3:36 PM

Judas was chosen to be an apostle. Later, through his own greed, he fell away by betraying Jesus for silver coins. Luke 6:13, John 6:69-71

Acts 1:24-26
And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Some Galatians believed and were baptized. Later they fell from grace because they were persuaded by some troublesome Christian Jews to become ritually circumcised.

Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

You cannot fall from grace without already having grace to fall from.

Before the foundation of the world, God placed into his hand only the people who he foreknew would be faithful until they died. 1 Peter 1:2

BrotherJJ · Tuesday at 7:41 PM

Jan001 said:
Judas was chosen to be an apostle. Later, through his own greed, he fell away by betraying Jesus for silver coins. Luke 6:13, John 6:69-71

Acts 1:24-26
And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” 26 And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Some Galatians believed and were baptized. Later they fell from grace because they were persuaded by some troublesome Christian Jews to become ritually circumcised.

Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

You cannot fall from grace without already having grace to fall from.

Before the foundation of the world, God placed into his hand only the people who he foreknew would be faithful until they died. 1 Peter 1:2

Judas & the Galatians don't overturn anything I said - they actually reinforce the same biblical categories. Judas was chosen to an office, not regenerated for salvation. Jesus Himself said Judas was ""a devil"" even while numbered among the 12 (Jn 6:70–71) & Acts 1:25 says he fell from his ministry & apostleship, not from eternal life. Nothing in Scripture ever says Judas was born again, sealed, justified, or saved. He was a false disciple from the beginning (Jn 12:6 & Jn 17:12).

Galatians 5:4 likewise does not describe believers losing salvation but believers abandoning the principle of grace by seeking justification through law. Paul's entire argument is that law & grace are mutually exclusive systems (Gal 3:10–12 & Gal 5:2–4). ""Fallen from grace"" means they were turning from grace as a method of justification, not losing salvation they already possessed. If they had actually lost salvation, Paul would not call them sons & heirs who had already received the Hoy Spirit (Gal 4:6–7 & Gal 3:2).

Romans 1 describes unbelievers who suppress truth & refuse to retain God in their knowledge (Rom 1:18, 21, 28); nothing in the chapter suggests they were ever sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13–14).

Hebrews 10 describes professing Jews who were set apart by exposure to the covenant community but were considering rejecting Christ & returning to temple sacrifices; the warning is about rejecting the only sacrifice that saves (Heb 10:26), not losing salvation.

2 Peter 2 is explicit that the dog returns to vomit & the sow to mud because their nature never changed - this is the definition of a false convert, not a believer losing regeneration.

Scripture is consistent: those who truly believe are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30) & Jesus says His sheep will never perish & no one can snatch them from His hand (Jn 10:28–29).

A Christian does not become reprobate; a reprobate is someone who rejects God from the start. A believer is someone God has already justified, sealed & adopted - two categories Scripture never confuses.

1 Peter 1:2 does not say God foreknew who would ""remain faithful""; it says believers are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, in sanctification of the Holy Spirit, for obedience & sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.

None of the passages you cited teach that a born‑again believer becomes un‑born‑again. They all describe false converts, externally reformed people, or those abandoning grace as a system & were never a sealed believer losing salvation.

Jan001 · Tuesday at 7:55 PM

BrotherJJ said:
Judas & the Galatians don't overturn anything I said - they actually reinforce the same biblical categories. Judas was chosen to an office, not regenerated for salvation. Jesus Himself said Judas was ""a devil"" even while numbered among the 12 (Jn 6:70–71) & Acts 1:25 says he fell from his ministry & apostleship, not from eternal life. Nothing in Scripture ever says Judas was born again, sealed, justified, or saved. He was a false disciple from the beginning (Jn 12:6 & Jn 17:12).

Galatians 5:4 likewise does not describe believers losing salvation but believers abandoning the principle of grace by seeking justification through law. Paul's entire argument is that law & grace are mutually exclusive systems (Gal 3:10–12 & Gal 5:2–4). ""Fallen from grace"" means they were turning from grace as a method of justification, not losing salvation they already possessed. If they had actually lost salvation, Paul would not call them sons & heirs who had already received the Hoy Spirit (Gal 4:6–7 & Gal 3:2).

Romans 1 describes unbelievers who suppress truth & refuse to retain God in their knowledge (Rom 1:18, 21, 28); nothing in the chapter suggests they were ever sealed by the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13–14).

Hebrews 10 describes professing Jews who were set apart by exposure to the covenant community but were considering rejecting Christ & returning to temple sacrifices; the warning is about rejecting the only sacrifice that saves (Heb 10:26), not losing salvation.

2 Peter 2 is explicit that the dog returns to vomit & the sow to mud because their nature never changed - this is the definition of a false convert, not a believer losing regeneration.

Scripture is consistent: those who truly believe are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30) & Jesus says His sheep will never perish & no one can snatch them from His hand (Jn 10:28–29).

A Christian does not become reprobate; a reprobate is someone who rejects God from the start. A believer is someone God has already justified, sealed & adopted - two categories Scripture never confuses.

1 Peter 1:2 does not say God foreknew who would ""remain faithful""; it says believers are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, in sanctification of the Holy Spirit, for obedience & sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.

None of the passages you cited teach that a born‑again believer becomes un‑born‑again. They all describe false converts, externally reformed people, or those abandoning grace as a system & were never a sealed believer losing salvation.

When Adam sinned, he fell from grace and lost eternal life for all mankind.

If we fall from grace and do not repent before we die, we will not inherit eternal life.

We are saved by grace.

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 5:21
so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 12:15
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

Jan001 · Tuesday at 8:09 PM

BrotherJJ said:
None of the passages you cited teach that a born‑again believer becomes un‑born‑again. They all describe false converts, externally reformed people, or those abandoning grace as a system & were never a sealed believer losing salvation.

Our initial salvation gives us the hope that we will attain eternal life.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Paul and the other Scripture writers compare the process of salvation to an athletic track event. The difference between the two is that the race which results in winning the prize of eternal life is a life-long event.

The Great Race

The prize: the crown of eternal life. James 1:12

The entry fee is paid for us: Jesus Christ's sacrificial death on the cross pays our entry fee. Genesis 3:24, Romans 5:12

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. (Jesus saves us as his gift to us.) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Now that we are saved, we must do the good works that God has prepared for us to do in order to be judged "worthy" to inherit eternal life. Matthew 7:21, Matthew 12:50, Matthew 10:37-39, Luke 20:35, Colossians 1:9-10

Our entry is confirmed by our repentance (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38) and our baptism as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-16.

Now, we begin our race. We must finish our race in order to win the prize—eternal life with God in heaven.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. 26 So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air, 27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Galatians 5:5-8 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who prevented you from obeying the truth? 8 Such persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.

Egregious sin causes us to stumble and fall. (Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 John 5:15-17) We must repent and confess these sins in order to continue our race. 1 John 1:9

2 Peter 1:4-11 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust and may become participants of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with excellence, and excellence with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual affection, and mutual affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is blind, suffering from eye disease, forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.

We must love God with our whole being and love our neighbors as ourselves in order to finish our race well.

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

Our death ends our race. Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 2:10

2 Timothy 4:5-8 As for you, be sober in everything, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully. 6 As for me, I am already being poured out as a libation, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Matthew 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’

BrotherJJ · Tuesday at 10:06 PM

Jan001 said:
When Adam sinned, he fell from grace and lost eternal life for all mankind.

If we fall from grace and do not repent before we die, we will not inherit eternal life.

We are saved by grace.

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 5:21
so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 12:15
looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

Adam "falling from grace"" is not the same category as a born‑again believer losing salvation & Scripture never uses Adam's fall to teach that regenerate people become un‑regenerate. Adam was never ""saved by grace through faith"" (Eph 2:8–9); he was a sinless man under a works‑probation covenant. When he fell, he did not lose salvation - he lost innocence & brought death into the world (Rom 5:12).

That is not the same thing as a sealed believer losing eternal life. Hebrews 12:15 is not about losing salvation but about believers guarding the community from bitterness & defilement - the same way Hebrews warns professing Jews not to reject Christ & return to temple sacrifices (Heb 10:26).

Grace ""reigns to eternal life"" (Rom 5:21) precisely because it is not maintained by human performance. If salvation can be lost by sin, then salvation was never by grace to begin with (Rom 11:6). The New Testament is consistent: those who truly believe are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30) & Jesus says His sheep will never perish & no one can snatch them from His hand (John 10:28–29). Adam's fall explains why humanity needs salvation; it does not redefine salvation as a fragile, reversible state for those who have already been justified, sealed & adopted

BrotherJJ · Tuesday at 10:11 PM

Jan001 said:
Our initial salvation gives us the hope that we will attain eternal life.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Paul and the other Scripture writers compare the process of salvation to an athletic track event. The difference between the two is that the race which results in winning the prize of eternal life is a life-long event.

The Great Race

The prize: the crown of eternal life. James 1:12

The entry fee is paid for us: Jesus Christ's sacrificial death on the cross pays our entry fee. Genesis 3:24, Romans 5:12

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. (Jesus saves us as his gift to us.) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Now that we are saved, we must do the good works that God has prepared for us to do in order to be judged "worthy" to inherit eternal life. Matthew 7:21, Matthew 12:50, Matthew 10:37-39, Luke 20:35, Colossians 1:9-10

Our entry is confirmed by our repentance (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38) and our baptism as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-16.

Now, we begin our race. We must finish our race in order to win the prize—eternal life with God in heaven.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. 26 So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air, 27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Galatians 5:5-8 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who prevented you from obeying the truth? 8 Such persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.

Egregious sin causes us to stumble and fall. (Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 John 5:15-17) We must repent and confess these sins in order to continue our race. 1 John 1:9

2 Peter 1:4-11 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust and may become participants of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with excellence, and excellence with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual affection, and mutual affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is blind, suffering from eye disease, forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.

We must love God with our whole being and love our neighbors as ourselves in order to finish our race well.

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

Our death ends our race. Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 2:10

2 Timothy 4:5-8 As for you, be sober in everything, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully. 6 As for me, I am already being poured out as a libation, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Matthew 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’

BrotherJJ · Tuesday at 10:11 PM

Jan001 said:
Our initial salvation gives us the hope that we will attain eternal life.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Paul and the other Scripture writers compare the process of salvation to an athletic track event. The difference between the two is that the race which results in winning the prize of eternal life is a life-long event.

The Great Race

The prize: the crown of eternal life. James 1:12

The entry fee is paid for us: Jesus Christ's sacrificial death on the cross pays our entry fee. Genesis 3:24, Romans 5:12

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God— 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. (Jesus saves us as his gift to us.) 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Now that we are saved, we must do the good works that God has prepared for us to do in order to be judged "worthy" to inherit eternal life. Matthew 7:21, Matthew 12:50, Matthew 10:37-39, Luke 20:35, Colossians 1:9-10

Our entry is confirmed by our repentance (Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38) and our baptism as commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15-16.

Now, we begin our race. We must finish our race in order to win the prize—eternal life with God in heaven.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable one. 26 So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air, 27 but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

Galatians 5:5-8 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who prevented you from obeying the truth? 8 Such persuasion does not come from the one who calls you.

Egregious sin causes us to stumble and fall. (Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 John 5:15-17) We must repent and confess these sins in order to continue our race. 1 John 1:9

2 Peter 1:4-11 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust and may become participants of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason, you must make every effort to support your faith with excellence, and excellence with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with endurance, and endurance with godliness, 7 and godliness with mutual affection, and mutual affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and are increasing among you, they keep you from being ineffective and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For anyone who lacks these things is blind, suffering from eye disease, forgetful of the cleansing of past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more eager to confirm your call and election, for if you do this, you will never stumble. 11 For in this way, entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be richly provided for you.

We must love God with our whole being and love our neighbors as ourselves in order to finish our race well.

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”

Our death ends our race. Hebrews 9:27, Revelation 2:10

2 Timothy 4:5-8 As for you, be sober in everything, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully. 6 As for me, I am already being poured out as a libation, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight; I have finished the race; I have kept the faith. 8 From now on there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

Matthew 25:21 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a little, I will set you over much; enter into the joy of your master.’

Your entire argument collapses because you treat salvation as a probation instead of a finished act. The ""race"" passages describe sanctification & reward, not maintaining justification.

Eternal life is a present possession (John 5:24), justification is a completed past event (Rom 5:1) & believers are sealed until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; 4:30).

None of your verses show a regenerate person becoming un‑regenerate - they show false professors, warnings to communities & calls to endurance. If salvation can be lost by performance, then it was never by grace to begin with (Rom 11:6).

Jan001 · 2026-02-18T11:10:25-0600

BrotherJJ said:
Adam "falling from grace"" is not the same category as a born‑again believer losing salvation & Scripture never uses Adam's fall to teach that regenerate people become un‑regenerate. Adam was never ""saved by grace through faith"" (Eph 2:8–9); he was a sinless man under a works‑probation covenant. When he fell, he did not lose salvation - he lost innocence & brought death into the world (Rom 5:12).

I think Adam's fall was so severely punished, because even with his untainted, superior intellect, he committed idolatry. Adam preferred to please Eve instead of obeying God's command. He put what Eve wanted before what God commanded.

Deuteronomy 5:7
7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.

BrotherJJ said:
That is not the same thing as a sealed believer losing eternal life. Hebrews 12:15 is not about losing salvation but about believers guarding the community from bitterness & defilement - the same way Hebrews warns professing Jews not to reject Christ & return to temple sacrifices (Heb 10:26).

So, there are no consequences for a Christian Jew if he later rejects Jesus Christ by committing sins against his commandments?

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

BrotherJJ said:
Grace ""reigns to eternal life"" (Rom 5:21) precisely because it is not maintained by human performance. If salvation can be lost by sin, then salvation was never by grace to begin with (Rom 11:6). The New Testament is consistent: those who truly believe are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Eph 1:13–14; Eph 4:30) & Jesus says His sheep will never perish & no one can snatch them from His hand (John 10:28–29). Adam's fall explains why humanity needs salvation; it does not redefine salvation as a fragile, reversible state for those who have already been justified, sealed & adopted

So, a father cannot disinherit his child for any reason?

Colossians 3:5-7
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

Ephesians 5:5-7
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Jan001 · 2026-02-18T11:28:46-0600

BrotherJJ said:
Your entire argument collapses because you treat salvation as a probation instead of a finished act. The ""race"" passages describe sanctification & reward, not maintaining justification.

Our initial salvation gives us hope for our completed salvation at our death. We don't always receive what we hope for.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Romans 5:2
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

BrotherJJ said:
None of your verses show a regenerate person becoming un‑regenerate - they show false professors, warnings to communities & calls to endurance. If salvation can be lost by performance, then it was never by grace to begin with (Rom 11:6).

So, if you are given a gift, you can never lose or destroy this gift no matter what you do to it?

If you are given a new car and you drive it so carelessly that you wreck it beyond repair, do you still possess the new car?

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