Jim Banks Calls for Passage of SAVE America Act to Require Proof of Citizenship to Vote

Landon Caeli · Tuesday at 3:40 PM

I like to see consistency and logic! I just don't see that a lot of the time in the arguments I hear.

DaisyDay · Tuesday at 4:17 PM

Pommer said:
The society is fine, it’s the government that has an artificial overlay of politicians beholden to the donor-class and less beholden to the people who actually vote to keep them in office.

It turns out that “running the government like a business” doesn’t work.

Certainly running it like a private business for the profit of a few isn't working well for the many.

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 6:16 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
I see it as trying to build an engaged and informed electorate. It currently benefits Democrats because Democrats happen to support policies that younger voters prefer, but there are no rules preventing Republicans from backing policies popular with "the yoots," and (if the norm of voters becoming more conservative as they age continues), the conservative party stands to benefit down the road regardless.

The issue is that these blanket voter registration drives only do one of the two... they get people "engaged" in that, they'll show up and vote for whoever the person they think is cool says to vote for.

But they do little on the "informing" front.

In the realm of being informed, that often takes initiative and self-motivation.

In fact, legally, voter registration orgs are "registration advocacy only" by design.

Organizations with 501c3 status are prohibited from producing candidate-specific materials or anything that could be seen as electoral advocacy. So their drives strictly stick to just registration, providing the forms, explaining deadlines, and confirming eligibility. HeadCount, for example, which operates heavily at concerts and music festivals, is fairly careful to stay in that lane officially. However, the partisanship comes in the form of the selection of venue, and the artists who are performing.

If they set up their non-partisan voter registration drive at a Rage Against the Machine concert, they know the type of people who will be showing up, and they already know the information the kids have been inundated with if they've spent more than 20 minutes on Tom Morello's social media feeds.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 7:00 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
The issue is that these blanket voter registration drives only do one of the two... they get people "engaged" in that, they'll show up and vote for whoever the person they think is cool says to vote for.

But they do little on the "informing" front.

In the realm of being informed, that often takes initiative and self-motivation.

Sure, and being encouraged to register can be the kick that gets some people interested in doing that.

ThatRobGuy said:
If they set up their non-partisan voter registration drive at a Rage Against the Machine concert, they know the type of people who will be showing up, and they already know the information the kids have been inundated with if they've spent more than 20 minutes on Tom Morello's social media feeds.

And if you set up a registration drive at the gun show, you'll get another group of people. I don't see why this is a problem.

Hans Blaster · Tuesday at 7:49 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
And if you set up a registration drive at the gun show, you'll get another group of people. I don't see why this is a problem.

They would never do THAT....

Florida Republicans Hold Voter Registration Drive At Gun Show

Republicans working to re-elect President Donald Trump sent volunteers to a voter drive at a gun show in Pembroke Pines over the weekend. During campaign…

www.wlrn.org

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2019/08/08/florida-republicans-target-gun-shows-to-find-trump-voters-1135813

The literal gun industry trade association:

NSSF Urges All Gun Owners and Second Amendment Supporters to Register to Vote and #GUNVOTE® on November 5th

NSSF®, the Firearm Industry Trade Association, announced it is urging all gun owners, hunters, recreational target shooters and supporters of the Second Amendment to register to vote by visiting www.GunVote.org

www.nssf.org

Oh, look, the Dems have their own "Rob":

https://www.lcsun-news.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/13/voter-registration-event-target-practice-alamogordo-gun-show-draws-complaint/4742418002/

Let's you think I'm trying to "what about this". I'll be clear. Good for them. Those gun owners have rights to vote just as much as the concert goers.

Hans Blaster · Tuesday at 7:51 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
If they set up their non-partisan voter registration drive at a Rage Against the Machine concert, they know the type of people who will be showing up,

Rage Against the Machine fans?

ThatRobGuy said:
and they already know the information the kids have been inundated with if they've spent more than 20 minutes on Tom Morello's social media feeds.

Whoever that is.

Landon Caeli · Tuesday at 7:55 PM

Hans Blaster said:
Rage Against the Machine fans?

I think those are far-left anarchists.

(Worse than hippies)

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 8:12 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
And if you set up a registration drive at the gun show, you'll get another group of people. I don't see why this is a problem.

I would see the problem as we have an increasing electorate comprised of
"Tom Morello says X"
vs.
"Ted Nugent says Y"

Countering one low information voter drive with another (just for the other team) exacerbates the issue, it doesn't make it better.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 8:18 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
I would see the problem as we have an increasing electorate comprised of
"Tom Morello says X"
vs.
"Ted Nugent says Y"

Again, you have yet to provide any compelling evidence for this proposition.

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 8:18 PM

Hans Blaster said:
Rage Against the Machine fans?

Yes, radical young leftists who think that Communist guerilla forces are awesome.

Hans Blaster said:
Whoever that is.

The guitar player from the bantd, who's politically influential among the younger more radical crowd and gets propped up as some sort of politics guru on panel discussions... famous for selling shirts that say "punch your local Nazi" and "Destroy American Fascism", and then broadly defines "Nazi" and "Fascist" as anyone who's to the right of Leon Trotsky and glorifies Che Guevara as the proper antidote to it.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 8:20 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Yes, radical young leftists who think that Communist guerilla forces are awesome.

The guitar player from the bantd, who's politically influential among the younger more radical crowd and gets propped up as some sort of politics guru on panel discussions... famous for selling shirts that say "punch your local Nazi" and "Destroy American Fascism", and then broadly defines "Nazi" and "Fascist" as anyone who's to the right of Leon Trotsky and glorifies Che Guevara as the proper antidote to it.

Lol, you really don't like RATM, do you? Can you show me on the doll where Tom Morello touched you?

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 8:26 PM

lol. Nothing says “rage against the machine” quite like registering to vote.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 8:30 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
Lol, you really don't like RATM, do you? Can you show me on the doll where Tom Morello touched you?

Probably the ears.

:dodges a flying pedal board:

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 8:36 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
Again, you have yet to provide any compelling evidence for this proposition.

Really, the fact that there's are organizations that set up voter registration drives at hippie music festivals

And according to Hans:

(and you "like" reacted that post)

So clearly you must agree (at least to some degree) that it's happening. -- "that" being intentionally setting up "non-partisan" voter registration drives set up at politically advantageous venues to pad one's own sides headcount. Heck, the largest organization that does this at jam band and hippie music festivals is called "HeadCount" lol, at least they're transparent with their choice of name.

HeadCount Home

HeadCount promotes voter registration and participation in democracy through the power of music. We organize at over 1,000 concerts and festivals each year. Sign up to volunteer!

www.headcount.org

The only name that could possibly be more transparent would be be "We need more young impressionable young hippies to boost our chances of winning, help!" -- although that doesn't roll off the tongue.

Seriously though... this demand for "evidence" has been more than satisfied in the realm of common sense.

If an organization whose 501c4 subsidiaries are blatantly and overtly advocating for one side, while their 501c3 non-profit "neutral" subsidiary are running "non-partisan" voter registration drives in handpicked venues where the overwhelming odds are that 90% of the people who will be in attendance will just so happen to be receptive to the agenda of the 501c4 org, that's pretty transparent, wouldn't you agree?

Or to put it in simplistic terms
If you run a voter registration drive at a hippie jam band festival, you're trying to pad liberal votes
If you run one at a gun show, you're trying to pad conservative votes

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 8:40 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
Lol, you really don't like RATM, do you? Can you show me on the doll where Tom Morello touched you?

I used to like them when I was in high school and thought it was cool wear a Che Guevara shirt and listen to music that made the adults mad. (before I actually learned some of the more unsavory details about Che)

Then as I got older, I realized they were basically cosplaying idiots.

Zach De La Rocha is a bigger tool than Tom Morello, but Zach doesn't get propped up at a serious political contributor and added to serious political panel discussions on various media outlets.

"I'm rollin' down Rodeo with a shotgun" ....sure you are Zach, sure you are

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 8:53 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Really, the fact that there's are organizations that set up voter registration drives at hippie music festivals

I'm questioning, as I have multiple times, your assertion that people are basing their votes primarily on the opinions of their favorite celebrity.

Stopped_lurking · Tuesday at 10:19 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
It's not a strawman.

ThatRobGuy said:
If someone is doing it just to be like a person they think is cool and popular, then it's not particularly valuable.

"doing it just to be like a person they think is cool and popular" this part is a strawman.

ThatRobGuy said:
I provided the links (from reputable sources) showing that it happens.

If a person has little to no interest in politics, and they're doing it just to emulate a celeb they like, that's not a meaningful contribution in the true sense.

None of your links said that they are doing it just to emulate a celeb they like.

ThatRobGuy said:
If 35,000 people rush out and register so they can register to vote for the same person as their favorite singer less than 24 hours after a tweet (despite having not enough interest to get registered before -- it was in the PolitFact link), that's not a quality addition to the voting pool.

Of course it is a quality addition, do they need to get your approval? They're taking part in the voting process.

ThatRobGuy said:
That scenario doesn't represent 35,000 fresh new voices in the political arena, that's just Taylor Swift having 35,000 voices instead of 1.

They are 35000 new voices, you just said that hadn't registered before. They want to make their vote count.

Are you saying that your vote is a better vote when viewed according to their intentions than their own? I've been thinking about what defines quality in a vote, my definition of a quality vote is a vote that is informative of the voters intent.

Stopped_lurking · Tuesday at 11:10 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Really, the fact that there's are organizations that set up voter registration drives at hippie music festivals

And according to Hans:
View attachment 376637

(and you "like" reacted that post)

So clearly you must agree (at least to some degree) that it's happening. -- "that" being intentionally setting up "non-partisan" voter registration drives set up at politically advantageous venues to pad one's own sides headcount. Heck, the largest organization that does this at jam band and hippie music festivals is called "HeadCount" lol, at least they're transparent with their choice of name.

HeadCount Home

HeadCount promotes voter registration and participation in democracy through the power of music. We organize at over 1,000 concerts and festivals each year. Sign up to volunteer!

www.headcount.org

The only name that could possibly be more transparent would be be "We need more young impressionable young hippies to boost our chances of winning, help!" -- although that doesn't roll off the tongue.

Seriously though... this demand for "evidence" has been more than satisfied in the realm of common sense.

If an organization whose 501c4 subsidiaries are blatantly and overtly advocating for one side, while their 501c3 non-profit "neutral" subsidiary are running "non-partisan" voter registration drives in handpicked venues where the overwhelming odds are that 90% of the people who will be in attendance will just so happen to be receptive to the agenda of the 501c4 org, that's pretty transparent, wouldn't you agree?

Or to put it in simplistic terms
If you run a voter registration drive at a hippie jam band festival, you're trying to pad liberal votes
If you run one at a gun show, you're trying to pad conservative votes

As a side note why would RATM fans or gun aficionados be low-informed voters?

If they aren't what is your problem with them registering to vote?

Hans Blaster · Tuesday at 11:23 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Yes, radical young leftists who think that Communist guerilla forces are awesome.

The guitar player from the bantd, who's politically influential among the younger more radical crowd and gets propped up as some sort of politics guru on panel discussions... famous for selling shirts that say "punch your local Nazi" and "Destroy American Fascism", and then broadly defines "Nazi" and "Fascist" as anyone who's to the right of Leon Trotsky and glorifies Che Guevara as the proper antidote to it.

I've heard of the band, but I don't know anything about most of these new bands. They could have just been confused Dylan [Thomas] fans when naming their band.

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 11:40 PM

DaisyDay said:
Do you really not know how emotions figure into your own thought process? Why do you have such disdain (an emotion!) for the concept of emotion? I've noticed some people like to use "emotional" as an insult as if they believe they are "above" that without considering how deeply mired it it they are. Without emotion, they simply would not care.

Gratitude, humor, triumph, self-satisfaction - all emotions. I doubt you've really analyzed this.

I blame the alpha male red pill movement (at least in part). While I'm not accusing anyone here of being part of it, it has become part of the modern zeitgeist of social discourse unfortunately. And part of that has been delineating a sort of non-emotive pseudo-Stoic "logic" as a masculine trait (and thus better), from the perceived feminine trait of emotionality (and thus inferior).

There is an intrinsic sexism underlaying this, even if it isn't explicit. Of course this "logic = masculine" and "emotion = feminine" is an inherently stupid dichotomy that doesn't actually comport with objective reality (anyone who thinks men are less emotional than women is living in a fantasy land). And given Conservatism (at least in the US context) having a bit of a fetish for machismo and a strict dividing line between men and women by assigning men and women to weird arbitrary stereotypes, this is going to then filter into the broader political and social discourse as well.

So pretending that emotion isn't a fundamental and integral aspect for how we interpret all sensory input and our response to all external stimuli for literally all humans everywhere is, I think, largely a product of certain reactionary viewpoints. Viewpoints rooted in a myopic and misogynistic world view that still, even unconsciously at times, wants to assert the supremacy of "masculinity", and defining that "masculinity" on entirely arbitrary stereotypes.

I.e. if a man cries he's "acting like a woman". It's an archaic, stupid, sexist, and inherently toxic perspective--but it's also deeply embedded in social politics by those who regard these sorts of things as fundamental tenets of reality (plot twist: they aren't).

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Jim Banks Calls for Passage of SAVE America Act to Require Proof of Citizenship to Vote

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