Am I more tolerant than my mother?

JacquelineDeane55 said:

My mother, who is a 66-year-old Conservative Christian Boomer, raised me in a Christian household, much like a lot of you were.

But I was taught by my mother when I was a kid that drinking, cussing, doing drugs, having sex outside of marriage, tattoos, and smoking were all morally wrong and should not be done. She was kind of strict. So I never did them growing up and as an adult I guess my training and upbringing stuck because even now at age 38 I have never done them. I have never even tasted alcohol.

There is this guy that I love with a passion, but the problem is is that he has a few vices that I don't. I am afraid that my mother is going to try and chase him off because she thinks he might not be good enough for me. She will essentially become the "evil" mother-in-law that will try to come between us and break us up!

But me? I've seen people smoke and cuss and honestly, I don't mind at all. I don't mind at all that the guy I like has a few vices that he likes to entertain. Yes, sometimes he cusses, and yes, he smokes (both things I've never done), but I am wondering if I am more tolerant than my mom because I seem to be more accepting towards people who weren't raised the same way I was. He has tattoos all over his body, but honestly, I don't care that he has them. I've seen other Christians with tattoos, to be honest. What is the big deal? Why does she hate people with tattoos?

About the tattoos though: NOWHERE does the Bible address this! The LORD is silent in the Scriptures about tattoos! So I am just going to assume that since God didn't address that subject in the Scriptures at all, that it automatically means He thinks tattoos are OK! Otherwise He would have taught against them! But He didn't! So there is that. I told my mom this but of course she won't listen to reason.

What do you guys think? Is my mother being holier-than-thou? Is she being too judgmental?

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Only one question - is God and serving Him the top-most priority in life for this guy - is this even more important to him than you?

Tattoos are a personal matter, but smoking and heavily drinking may point to addictions or an addiction prone personality - that's problematic. An occasional social beer/wine wouldn't bother me.

I too grew up the same way, in a strict Christian home. My mother taught me the same things. She is immediately suspect of anyone with tattoos. She did teach us not to smoke or do drugs, and so did our father separately (as my mother and father were divorced). Mother did not drink and my father had the occasional beer or two, but that was about it. Mother and father both smoked. So despite my mother being a devout Christian, she couldn't kick the habit. We did not have alcohol in mother's house except the rubbing kind. Dad might buy a six pack here and there, but like I said he only drank one or two. He even let me taste a Genesee Cream Ale once. And so when I would go visit dad it was different as there were no restrictions. Dad would buy us candy for our weekend visit. It was Brach's peanut clusters and chocolate stars as we sat down to watch movies. When he took us out to eat he always made sure we had our favorite, which for me was a sausage sandwich, and dessert of some sort.

As I've said in other posts, I left Christianity at sixteen and moved in with my father, and I lived an adult life of excess because my good paying job allowed for it. In 2005 a friend I had known for six years online was looking to escape a bad marriage, and I was lonely (I know, bad combo), so we moved in together. My mother did not like her because she had tattoos.

I didn't try to push the issue of her and mother getting along. I just ignored it. At some point either she was going to accept that she was a good person, or not, but mother wasn't going to interfere with my life choices as long as I wasn't being hurt or hurting myself in some way. The relationship lasted a year, and she ended up moving in with a good mutual friend and starting a relationship with him. That lasted many years for them and they got married. Sadly, she ended her life in front of him over a huge fight about their marriage.

My father was in the Marines, but he didn't have tattoos as many Marines do. I asked him about it. He said he didn't like tattoos, and he cautioned us boys not to get tattoos, just like mother did.

I came to my own conclusion concerning tattoos. I had considered getting one several times in the past, but I never did. Life taught me that whatever I think is cool today is tacky tomorrow. To me, tattoos speak of impulsiveness and poor life choices. Yes, there are people that get tattoos to honor something or someone, but I consider those to be equally tacky. I wouldn't want my likeness or name on someone else's body as a remembrance, but that is just me.

It has also been my experience with the women I've known and dated, that tattoos do indeed indicate impulsiveness and poor life choices. It doesn't mean they are bad people, but it is a warning sign.

Also, this verse seems to address tattoos.

Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Concerning vices...

Smoking killed my grandfather and my father. Smoking may likely kill my mother, but for now she is still kicking at 75. My other grandmother smoked into her 90's.

I drank more than I should have. I didn't get drunk, but I kept beer in my fridge. When I came back to the faith I had a crisper full of beer, and it took me years to decide to pour it down the drain. I wasn't drinking it, but it was a constant reminder.

My own experience with vices is that they are habits that bring temporary "happiness", but you have to continue to do them or the happiness is fleeting. Whether it is alcohol, smoking, even tattoos, just like potato chips, you can't have just one. You will want more, and before you know it you're 10-20 years down the road with failing health or a body covered in tattoos that no longer have meaning. Worse, you can't get a job because no one will hire you.

My point is there are consequences to having vices. While they may seem harmless, long-term they are all bad for you. When you accept vice in your life it is just a distraction/diversion from the life God is calling you to live.

In the end it is up to you what you accept in your life. My personal view is that vice has been bad for me in my own life and has had serious consequences to my own health, which I live with daily now. It also has spiritual consequences, in that it will push God out of your life, because vice is essentially a form of idolatry.

How subtle is Satan? He has every avenue covered with vice. Something to think about.

To answer your questions, no I don't think your mother is being holier than thou. I think she cares about you and wants what is best for you. I don't think she is being as much judgmental as discerning.

Those are my thoughts. God bless!

I also grew up in a conservative Christian subculture, but I'm a generation older than you are, so the list of "vices" to avoid was different: dancing, card-playing, movies, rock music. Along with drinking and cussing, of course, perennial favorites for these lists.

I think it's a temptation in each generation to get distracted by trivia. More important are things like: are we kind to the people around us, open and compassionate to people who are different from us? Do we care for those in need? Do we avoid greed and selfishness, taking what we want to have at the expense of others? Do we avoid being self-righteous about whatever our favorite virtue is?

(I think about how, growing up, racial segregation was accepted as perfectly fine, but don't you dare drink a beer.)

I'd say it's unhelpful to judge your mom for being too judgmental (ahem). But as you form your own values, I recommend focusing more on loving your neighbor as yourself, and less on things like tattoos.

I think you need to build a relationship with the Lord and spend time in His word. You need to know what the bible says about character and shouldn't rely on your mother or the internet for the answers. Asking questions is fine but this thread is a great example of the dangers of dependence and immaturity too.

You're contemplating a relationship with a convicted felon who's been incarcerated more than once. Have you actualiy thought this out or considered the hardships they have with employment? Are you aware of the prevalence of background checks as a precursor for job offers and how computers are deciding with limited human involvement?

This isn't someone who made mistakes and found the Lord and turned his life around. It's a missional project that's incredibly reckless and largely the result of your desire to marry and want for companionship. Out of all of the christian men you could choose this is your choice and you're questioning her judgment when you should be examining your own.

There's someone who used to post on the site who did the same. She had a litany of hardships that took years to resolve and she's the breadwinner too. Are you prepared to do the same or will you be moving him into your mother's home? He lived with her and her father but you don't have a man in the house and that could go sideways fast.

Most men in his situation are looking for safety nets. Women they can manipulate and control who overlook their mistakes and fill in the gaps. People are losing jobs everyday who don't have his challenges. It will fall to you and your mother (if you live together) to pick up the slack. Once the fox enters the coop he's hard to get rid of and many learn that the hard way.

You may love him now but the wrong man can make your life a living hell. Since @SarahsKnight is familiar with the person I'm speaking of I'll tag him. @GodAndChocolateVanilla has shared her challenges and her posts are insightful. You should read them.

He's over your head and you'll never keep up with him. Find someone your speed instead. It won't be difficult to wrap you around his fingers. You're very naive. That's why you should leave me alone. You can be headstrong if you want and you'll be asking for prayer as others have and may be stuck with him as well.

I'll tag a few other singles who can share their advice or experiences. @peaceful-forest @DragonFox91 @JAM2b @timewerx @ThisIsMe123

~bella

JacquelineDeane55 said:

This guy I really like also has committed some crimes, whereas I have never committed a single crime in my life. He has been to jail a few times. What do you think of that?

I have overlooked every vice and fault in this guy, and I still do love him. I would rather not point fingers at him and judge him for all of his mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes you know.

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Hmm. Actual crimes are different from trivia like tattoos. Try to set your mom's conservatism aside for a moment, and think about your own future life. What kinds of crimes are we talking about? Something like trespassing, or something like armed robbery? Is he violent? Has he taken positive steps (therapy, rehab, getting a good job, etc.) to ensure he won't continue in crime? If he committed the same crimes again in his future, would you still be comfortable being with him?

JacquelineDeane55 said:

OK, I have seriously considered all of your advice, and I have decided it would be better NOT to date a criminal, even if I love him to death. That seems to be the direction you guys are taking me: you are discouraging me dating this guy. Fine.

Its just that, he has had a really rough life and upbringing (maybe that is what leads people to commit crimes in the first place?) and I know he just craves to be understood and accepted by other people around him. I want to give him that understanding. I want him to know that Jesus loves him, and so do I.

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The problem with a lot of people is they think they can fix someone. You can’t. People fix themselves and only when they are ready.

Well, yes, it might be said you are more tolerant than your mother. But that doesn't make your mother wrong. Your mother holds different values than you do. Respect the person that she is. That is what "tolerant" means.

JacquelineDeane55 said:

Its just that, he has had a really rough life and upbringing (maybe that is what leads people to commit crimes in the first place?) and I know he just craves to be understood and accepted by other people around him. I want to give him that understanding. I want him to know that Jesus loves him, and so do I.

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I visited a church in our neighborhood several years ago and had a great discussion with one of the pastors who had similar challenges. He was involved in an unfortunate situation where his presence required imprisonment although he wasn't the main culprit. He shared his story with me and we conversed for two hours. Most of his time in prison was spent in solitary confinement and the lone material he had access to was the bible. So he read it from cover to cover and came to faith in his cell.

When he was released from prison he enrolled in school and acquired a degree in pastoral studies from a reputable university. He was hired by a well-known church and his work was lauded by the staff and congregation. The church was gifted a building in an urban community and that was his focus and he was chosen to lead it. After we spoke he introduced me to his wife and their small child. We spent some time conversing and she shared her perspective too.

I use moments like these to challenge my beliefs and areas of resistance. I wouldn't knowingly do the same but I've surrendered my life to God and unconventional pairings aren't uncommon. Where the pastor differs from your situation is his reconciliation to the Father. When they met he was already a believer. She wasn't trying to bring him to faith as you are. He chose the Lord on his own and that's an important difference. Many agree until the vows are exchanged and revert to their previous lifestyle afterwards.

I've been approached by someone in the past of that persuasion. I had no interest beyond mutual discourse as followers of God. But he had an agenda and I observed his machinations quietly. He looked at my deportment and the way I presented myself on the site and assumed I was naive. One of those girls who had a good life who was clueless about the unpleasant stuff. He turned on the charm and shared a picture of something he made and wanted to make another on myself. He said, if you give me your address I'll send it to you and was eager to do so.

Bear in mind, we've never met or spoken outside of that setting. Yet he believed I was gullible enough to give a man wearing an ankle monitor who was recently released from prison my physical address because he seemed nice and harmless. He thought I was a fool and green as they say. But I'm shrewder than I reveal and leery of enamored types who whisper niceties in my ear. Because there's usually an agenda. There's something I have or know they want for themselves and instead of being honest they try to secure it through backdoors and the like.

I knew the individual wasn't as rehabilitated as they pretended to be although others felt differently and were deceived by his performance. And in time he was back in jail as I expected. I wasn't the only one he spoke to and I observed his discourse. He was looking for a woman he could wrap around his fingers who would be his advocate and safety net. He isn't the first I've met of that stripe in christian settings. There was one like that in the church I used to attend and we were friends. But I saw the other nonetheless.

There's nothing wrong with liking someone but the why matters too. Some people use religion to secure themselves financially because most believers have their guard down. They don't want to think bad of anyone. The person I used to go to church with was part of a group I led with another. I knew his circumstances and he knew where I lived. The co-leader of the group used to take us home after the meetings. Although he was fond of another before we met it shifted in a different direction and she noticed it too.

That doesn't mean if someone's situation is challenging they're up to no good nor does it mean you wouldn't be a blessing to them either. But that can't be the primary motivation for me. Our mutual why must be rooted in goodness and betterment. You can't be focused on what I can do for you alone because I'll see it. I look at your words, actions and fruit as the Lord instructed. My feelings aren't the final word and they're in subjection to the spirit. I don't set aside what I see because I like someone. I accept the truth and it's saved my neck more times than I can count.

The most important decision you'll make in your life outside of the Lord is who you'll walk beside. They can be a force for good or never-ending drudgery. That's why it's important to have married friends. You'll hear things you won't encounter with singles. Especially christians. Many are in love with the idea of being married. They haven't moved beyond the loneliness and physical spoils to the meat and potatoes of what it takes to build a healthy union that lasts unto death. You look at the pros and cons differently and know you have to live with it. I can usually tell who can stay the course and who can't and the ones who are other-centered too.

When you spoke of the man you had lots to say about the things you wanted for him and that's admirable. But you didn't address the other side. What he does for you. How your life is bettered by his presence. How he's helped you confront your challenges and fears and helped you grow. That's what a man brings to a woman when his life is in order. You appear to be the rock but where do you lean?

That's where self-assessment comes in and acknowledging your strengths and weaknesses. You're supposed to pour into one another and everyone isn't suited for us. One of the most unsung qualities for a man is kindness. You'll avoid a lot of tears and grief if he possesses it and I would never marry someone who didn't. If I had to pinpoint the number one issue that's the root of the things I hear it's that. Kindness begets consideration, patience, grace and so on.

~bella

JacquelineDeane55 said:

My mother, who is a 66-year-old Conservative Christian Boomer, raised me in a Christian household, much like a lot of you were.

But I was taught by my mother when I was a kid that drinking, cussing, doing drugs, having sex outside of marriage, tattoos, and smoking were all morally wrong and should not be done. She was kind of strict. So I never did them growing up and as an adult I guess my training and upbringing stuck because even now at age 38 I have never done them. I have never even tasted alcohol.

There is this guy that I love with a passion, but the problem is is that he has a few vices that I don't. I am afraid that my mother is going to try and chase him off because she thinks he might not be good enough for me. She will essentially become the "evil" mother-in-law that will try to come between us and break us up!

But me? I've seen people smoke and cuss and honestly, I don't mind at all. I don't mind at all that the guy I like has a few vices that he likes to entertain. Yes, sometimes he cusses, and yes, he smokes (both things I've never done), but I am wondering if I am more tolerant than my mom because I seem to be more accepting towards people who weren't raised the same way I was. He has tattoos all over his body, but honestly, I don't care that he has them. I've seen other Christians with tattoos, to be honest. What is the big deal? Why does she hate people with tattoos?

About the tattoos though: NOWHERE does the Bible address this! The LORD is silent in the Scriptures about tattoos! So I am just going to assume that since God didn't address that subject in the Scriptures at all, that it automatically means He thinks tattoos are OK! Otherwise He would have taught against them! But He didn't! So there is that. I told my mom this but of course she won't listen to reason.

What do you guys think? Is my mother being holier-than-thou? Is she being too judgmental?

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You know if he has a good heart. People get tied up in standards when they already know what is good. If you know he's a good fellow, and he doesn't mistreat you, then your mom will have to accept that. His bad habits are health concerns, not necessarily moral ones. People with love in their hearts come in all shapes and sizes.

JacquelineDeane55 said:

I don't think I can "fix" him, I just want to show him Jesus' love so he can begin to heal. I think that love is a balm that heals a hurting heart.

This is the problem with some of you. Instead of being compassionate and loving towards hurting people, you say things like this. I don't get it. I thought we were all Christians here. I thought we were all about love. We're supposed to rise above the hatred and misunderstandings that the world gives to people. We're supposed to be better than this.

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Yeah. I’m not compassionate. Thats what people like you say. See how that works?