• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Jim Banks Calls for Passage of SAVE America Act to Require Proof of Citizenship to Vote

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
What has an impact? The number of registered voters? (I should note that both MTG and AOC ran away with the general election race their first time around.
Yes...because in a solid blue or red district, we know what party is going to win, but there's a spectrum within each party.

You would agree there's a big difference between a Mitt Romney and a Lauren Boebert, yes?
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Call Me Al
Mar 11, 2017
24,546
17,987
56
USA
✟464,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Yes...because in a solid blue or red district, we know what party is going to win, but there's a spectrum within each party.
You still haven't demonstrated that larger registration lead to those two nominations. (My guess -- you can't.)
You would agree there's a big difference between a Mitt Romney and a Lauren Boebert, yes?
One is a Mormon, the other doesn't need the middle "m".
 
  • Haha
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
17,844
2,069
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟347,457.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Just curious, does this mean that homeless folk without proper ID are just out of luck as far as social services go in your country?
Not sure what you mean. We have various supports for the homeless regardless of ID. They often lose their ID being homeless. There are sleep halls and buses. Or camping areas where they can be safe together.

But a person cannot just walk up to a housing organisation or the government agency and say give me money or a house without any ID. That is silly and a reciept for fraud.
 
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
17,844
2,069
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟347,457.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
From the side that tried to convince us a guilty verdict doesn’t mean anything…
Not sure what that means. But how does this negate the massive fraud and the example that identifying people to qualify them before they get the money is a fundemental principle of good government. Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
982
413
Kristianstad
✟30,718.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
No, it would be the maga base who's voting for a TV character for president, and some house reps that behave as if they're on a reality show.

It's the younger adult group that's voting for people with socialist leanings.
So is the young adults less informed than the the maga base? Do you believe it would be a good thing if young adults don't vote? They are part of the population, they are eligible to vote, the more of them that vote the higher legitimacy of the result.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So is the young adults less informed than the the maga base?
That's largely going to be a case by case thing.
Do you believe it would be a good thing if young adults don't vote? They are part of the population, they are eligible to vote, the more of them that vote the higher legitimacy of the result.
Depends on the nature of the voter...

I'll explain what I mean by that.

If it's a young person who's put serious thought into various issues, and done their research on the candidates, and wants to cast a vote, the more the merrier.

If it's a young person whose political knowledge doesn't extend past platitudes and bumper sticker slogans, and are simply looking to engage in mimicry, then they're not adding anything to the process, they're just giving more political weight to someone else's opinion.

A real world example of the thing I'm talking about:

Exclusive polling conducted for Newsweek by Redfield & Wilton Strategies found that 18 percent of voters say they're "more likely" or "significantly more likely" to vote for a candidate endorsed by Swift.

Seventeen percent said they would be less likely to vote for a Swift-backed candidate.



The fact that we have over a third of voters making decisions about being more or less likely to vote for a candidate on the basis of whether or Taylor Swift endorsed them isn't indicative of high-quality voting.
 
Upvote 0

stevevw

inquisitive
Nov 4, 2013
17,844
2,069
Brisbane Qld Australia
✟347,457.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Let the young ones vote for the socialist revolution. I would rather have legit voters voting for whatever crazy idea they want. Than unidentified actors voting.

In fact make it transparent. Let everyone see exactly what people are voting for. Lets see the donors and supporters of the candidates. Lets know exactly what it is people are voting for.
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You still haven't demonstrated that larger registration lead to those two nominations. (My guess -- you can't.)
I did actually, I provided the quote from AOC from her Face the Nation interview post-victory where she even credited the increased electorate for her primary victory.
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
43,263
20,831
Finger Lakes
✟353,243.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Spoken like a true liberal who focuses on the emotions.
Do you really not know how emotions figure into your own thought process? Why do you have such disdain (an emotion!) for the concept of emotion? I've noticed some people like to use "emotional" as an insult as if they believe they are "above" that without considering how deeply mired it it they are. Without emotion, they simply would not care.
Thanks for making my point.
Gratitude, humor, triumph, self-satisfaction - all emotions. I doubt you've really analyzed this.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
982
413
Kristianstad
✟30,718.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
That's largely going to be a case by case thing.
So are Democrat voters more or less informed than Republican voters? Why talk about young voters as more problematic than any other demographic. They still should have a say even if you don't approve of the who or the why the vote for.
Depends on the nature of the voter...

I'll explain what I mean by that.

If it's a young person who's put serious thought into various issues, and done their research on the candidates, and wants to cast a vote, the more the merrier.

If it's a young person whose political knowledge doesn't extend past platitudes and bumper sticker slogans, and are simply looking to engage in mimicry, then they're not adding anything to the process, they're just giving more political weight to someone else's opinion.
Well, I'll think you'll be having to try quite hard to find the young persons "simply looking to engage in mimicry". I have never ever heard a voter say that. It is not supported by your example below.
A real world example of the thing I'm talking about:

Exclusive polling conducted for Newsweek by Redfield & Wilton Strategies found that 18 percent of voters say they're "more likely" or "significantly more likely" to vote for a candidate endorsed by Swift.

Seventeen percent said they would be less likely to vote for a Swift-backed candidate.
How is this different than gathering an opinion from a person you trust? If they know Taylor Swift as fans or detractors, there is a chance that her viewpoint might align or be at cross with theirs.
The fact that we have over a third of voters making decisions about being more or less likely to vote for a candidate on the basis of whether or Taylor Swift endorsed them isn't indicative of high-quality voting.
If that is how they want to inform themselves, then so it is. Please note, they didn't say they would vote for the endorsed candidate solely because of her endorsement.

Are you saying endorsements don't influence all voters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: DaisyDay
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
How is this different than gathering an opinion from a person you trust? If they know Taylor Swift as fans or detractors, there is a chance that her viewpoint might align or be at cross with theirs.
Why, her thing is music right? Any particular reason why a person would be inclined to trust her positions on defense spending or tax policy?
If that is how they want to inform themselves, then so it is. Please note, they didn't say they would vote for the endorsed candidate solely because of her endorsement.

Are you saying endorsements don't influence all voters?
Being more or less likely to vote for someone based on liking/disliking a musician has little to do with informing oneself.

A famous person's endorsement (which shouldn't carry much weight to begin with) should only carry any weight at all if it somehow overlaps with an area of expertise.

For example, if Neil DeGrasse Tyson (a prominent scientists who's famous) endorsed a particular candidate for reasons specifically pertaining to science, then that at least carries a little weight...or something like Robert Reich (who's become somewhat famous as an economist) weighing in on monetary policy...

But saying "This musician endorsing a candidate will make me more likely to vote for them" is indicative of the mimicry I was referring to before.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
982
413
Kristianstad
✟30,718.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Why, her thing is music right? Any particular reason why a person would be inclined to trust her positions on defense spending or tax policy?

Being more or less likely to vote for someone based on liking/disliking a musician has little to do with informing oneself.

A famous person's endorsement (which shouldn't carry much weight to begin with) should only carry any weight at all if it somehow overlaps with an area of expertise.

For example, if Neil DeGrasse Tyson (a prominent scientists who's famous) endorsed a particular candidate for reasons specifically pertaining to science, then that at least carries a little weight...or something like Robert Reich (who's become somewhat famous as an economist) weighing in on monetary policy...

But saying "This musician endorsing a candidate will make me more likely to vote for them" is indicative of the mimicry I was referring to before.
No, if they follow her they might know if a candidate that she endorses is more or less likely to align with their values.

Are not politicians often endorsing one candidate over another? Politicians are almost never subject matter experts, do voters become influenced by politicians endorsements (other than young voters)?
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No, if they follow her they might know if a candidate that she endorses is more or less likely to align with their values.
Based on what?

Knowing that a musician I like (who remained apolitical for most of their career, and just recently took a few jabs a current politician) doesn't give me any real clues in terms of policy, nor is it a credential.

This isn't the result of people who are deeply engaged with politics.


"Are you registered to vote yet?" Swift wrote on Instagram Sept. 19, National Voter Registration Day. "I’ve been so lucky to see so many of you guys at my US shows recently. I’ve heard you raise your voices, and I know how powerful they are. Make sure you’re ready to use them in our elections this year! Register to vote in less than 2 minutes at Vote.org/NVRD." Swift is not officially affiliated with the Vote.org nonprofit organization.

The day that Swift posted that message, Vote.org received about 35,000 new registrations



It means, Swift posted a "voting is cool, you should vote" message, and 35,000 people (who evidently couldn't be bothered to do so before) rushed out and registered that day so they could be a loyal "Swifty". (the majority of whom where 18-29)

The article then goes on to mention:
When it comes to juicing younger voter turnout, the main way Swift could have an impact is among independent voters who are fans, said Wayne P. Steger, a DePaul University political science professor. "There may well be people who do not have a particularly strong partisan attachment and who do not pay attention to politics normally, but who do pay attention to Taylor Swift."

And it's it not a "new thing"


Oprah's 2008 endorsement of Barack Obama resulted in approximately 1 million votes for him in the Democratic primary.
 
Upvote 0

Landon Caeli

Average Human
Site Supporter
Jan 8, 2016
18,411
6,821
48
North Bay
✟866,711.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Do you really not know how emotions figure into your own thought process? Why do you have such disdain (an emotion!) for the concept of emotion? I've noticed some people like to use "emotional" as an insult as if they believe they are "above" that without considering how deeply mired it it they are. Without emotion, they simply would not care.

Gratitude, humor, triumph, self-satisfaction - all emotions. I doubt you've really analyzed this.
You know, those on the left here keep telling me my feelings don't matter, and that "facts" are all that matter. You've seen that recently, haven't you?

So how are your emotions different than my feelings? I think they are different, but I'm unsure why.
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
982
413
Kristianstad
✟30,718.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Based on what?
She might have done many dozens of interviews from which her values shine through. I don't know exactly what she has said, I don't follow her.
Knowing that a musician I like (who remained apolitical for most of their career, and just recently took a few jabs a current politician) doesn't give me any real clues in terms of policy, nor is it a credential.
But you might have an insight into their values. If you find that their values reflect or contradict your own, of course it is informative for your own decision process.

The "that" in your sentence above is throwing me off, exactly what are you trying to say? I answered as if it was not there.
This isn't the result of people who are deeply engaged with politics.


"Are you registered to vote yet?" Swift wrote on Instagram Sept. 19, National Voter Registration Day. "I’ve been so lucky to see so many of you guys at my US shows recently. I’ve heard you raise your voices, and I know how powerful they are. Make sure you’re ready to use them in our elections this year! Register to vote in less than 2 minutes at Vote.org/NVRD." Swift is not officially affiliated with the Vote.org nonprofit organization.

The day that Swift posted that message, Vote.org received about 35,000 new registrations
How is this not an invitation to become more interested in politics? Let me guess that voting didn't take place on september 20th?
It means, Swift posted a "voting is cool, you should vote" message, and 35,000 people (who evidently couldn't be bothered to do so before) rushed out and registered that day so they could be a loyal "Swifty". (the majority of whom where 18-29)
Voting is cool, and the more that votes the better the vote reflects the population. Should I condemn those who hadn't registered before september 19th, it is well ahead of the voting day isn't it?
The article then goes on to mention:
When it comes to juicing younger voter turnout, the main way Swift could have an impact is among independent voters who are fans, said Wayne P. Steger, a DePaul University political science professor. "There may well be people who do not have a particularly strong partisan attachment and who do not pay attention to politics normally, but who do pay attention to Taylor Swift."

And it's it not a "new thing"


Oprah's 2008 endorsement of Barack Obama resulted in approximately 1 million votes for him in the Democratic primary.
Every vote is a good vote, it means that more people have expressed an opinion on the political future of the government. It is after all not only your future.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Call Me Al
Mar 11, 2017
24,546
17,987
56
USA
✟464,785.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
I did actually, I provided the quote from AOC from her Face the Nation interview post-victory where she even credited the increased electorate for her primary victory.
picard-riker-double-facepalm.gif.

Wow! You really don't get it. Based only on the general election results, there was about 100,000 dependable, regular Democratic general election votes in the 14th District of NY. In the normal, uncontested, Democratic primaries about 10-20% of the Dem voters would participate. When AOC challenged him, she got about 10% more of the general election voting Democrats to vote for her in the primary. That works perfectly fine if there are NO extra registrations. (Not saying there weren't any, but nothing about that scenario requires a boost in voter registrations. At. All.)
 
Upvote 0

ThatRobGuy

Part of the IT crowd
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2005
30,067
17,581
Here
✟1,584,419.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Voting is cool, and the more that votes the better the vote reflects the population. Should I condemn those who hadn't registered before september 19th, it is well ahead of the voting day isn't it?
It doesn't reflect the population. If someone is doing it just to be like a person they think is cool and popular, then it's not particularly valuable.

"Swift said voting is cool, and Trump is bad, so I'm going to go vote for Democrats #SwiftyForLife" isn't a well thought-out position that's adding anything of merit to our political system.
Every vote is a good vote, it means that more people have expressed an opinion on the political future of the government. It is after all not only your future.
So if I go into the booth, and flip a coin to make my decision, is that a good vote?
 
Upvote 0

Stopped_lurking

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2004
982
413
Kristianstad
✟30,718.00
Country
Sweden
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
It doesn't reflect the population. If someone is doing it just to be like a person they think is cool and popular, then it's not particularly valuable.
It is that person's vote, of course it it part of what and how the population think. Also you haven't shown they are "doing it just to be like a person they think is cool and popular". That you don't think your strawman is valuable is clear.
"Swift said voting is cool, and Trump is bad, so I'm going to go vote for Democrats #SwiftyForLife" isn't a well thought-out position that's adding anything of merit to our political system.
That is your strawman of why they voted as they did.
So if I go into the booth, and flip a coin to make my decision, is that a good vote?
Yes, it is how YOU choose to spend your vote. YOU probably think that it a good method if you use it. That is then a reflection of the population.
 
Upvote 0