Do atheists constantly change the goalposts?

the Vital One · Saturday at 6:14 PM

It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

Desk trauma · Saturday at 7:15 PM

Do atheists constantly change the goalposts?

No.

Hans Blaster · Saturday at 9:14 PM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

General arguments about the (non)existence of god are not permitted here, so I'll try to answer your post without busting that rule.

the Vital One said:
One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

It's not quite simple, but most of us think that he was a historical person

the Vital One said:
You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased.

The gospels are the claims about the life/ministry/divinity of Jesus written a generation or so after the events and are written by those making a series of claims about the life/ministry/divinity/resurrection of Jesus.

the Vital One said:
You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

The other sources from "around the time of Jesus" do mention Christians and what they believe (and in ways consistent with the beliefs expressed in the Gospels and other NT texts), but do not provide evidence for correctness of those claims. It's great that we know what the early Christians believed, but all these sources provide are accounts of the beliefs of (then contemporary) early Christians.

the Vital One said:
Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything.

Some try, but don't confuse "atheists" with "skeptics" or "rationalists" or "scientists". We are a varied group that only share in common our non-belief in the various proposed gods.

the Vital One said:
There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

As noted in the previous post, no. You have not seen that here and the list of items you have given do not include any goal posts.

Bradskii · Saturday at 11:54 PM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

Can you quote anyone who says differently? And I should point out that accepting that Jesus was a historical person hasn't anything to do with evidence of God.

Maria Billingsley · Sunday at 7:12 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

Can't use scripture for proof, just yet. Try the writings of Josephous. Also, you can't start with Jesus Christ of Nazareth, you need to first bring science and the creation account together. Unfortunately, many Christians don't do this because they don't see science in scripture. Atheists have a analytical mind and need to solve the problem first before they accept the answer.
Be blessed.

o_mlly · Sunday at 7:28 AM

The shortcoming of your metaphor may be a problem. In order to move the goalposts, the posts must first be set in something. Atheists, as far as I know, profess to believe in nothing.

d taylor · Sunday at 8:23 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

-

Seek out people looking for God's free gift of Eternal Life, there are more than enough out there. They just do not know how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by believing in Jesus for Eternal Life.

Why spend time arguing with an atheist.

Desk trauma · Sunday at 8:25 AM

o_mlly said:
The shortcoming of your metaphor may be a problem. In order to move the goalposts, the posts must first be set in something. Atheists, as far as I know, profess to believe in nothing.

Incorrect. Atheism is a stance on one issue and one issue only.

comana · Sunday at 10:02 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

The Gospels are the claim not the proof.

Ivan Hlavanda · Sunday at 10:06 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

Non-Christians are in bondage to sin. They can do nothing but sin as sin is their master. No matter what argument you will use for God, they will not believe.

Christ must free them of this bondage of sin. That's why we preach the Gospel of Christ and pray to Him to have mercy on the sinnet, as He is the only one who can do something about their sin.

Remember, salvation is not about intelligence, but about God's grace and the state of the heart.

o_mlly · Sunday at 10:23 AM

Desk trauma said:
Incorrect. Atheism is a stance on one issue and one issue only.

What is the one issue that all atheists profess? If that thing is a negative then they profess "no-thing".

Desk trauma · Sunday at 10:33 AM

o_mlly said:
What is the one issue that all atheists profess?

A lack of belief in god/s.

o_mlly said:
If that thing is a negative then they profess "no-thing".

Right, so if the answer to the question of belief in something, faeries say, is no than any other beliefs that person holds do not exist?

Tropical Wilds · Sunday at 10:52 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

Being a person who existed is different than defining the role they held. Anne Boleyn existed, which is an undisputed fact, as is the creation of The Church of England because of her, but if I were to say that’s proof she holds the same influence and reverence to the the faith that Mary does, I’d be wrong.

the Vital One said:
You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

I can give you the Quran that proves Mohammed is the one true prophet, so clearly he is, that’s proof, and you not accepting it makes you wrong.

the Vital One said:
Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

The goalposts don’t move. Your understanding of them and what is required to prove the existence of God, however, falls short, and for that you blame the Atheists when really the issue is you.

2PhiloVoid · Sunday at 11:16 AM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

Only if they're trolls. Otherwise, I'm sure many if not most of them simply find it difficult to believe. I can understand their angst.

the Vital One said:
One example is the simple fact of Jesus being a historical person.

Historiographically speaking, facts are subject to interpretation and to various scholarly evaluations pertaining to sufficiency of sources and evidence, so it wouldn't be accurate to say that Jesus of Nazareth being a historical person is a "simple" fact. It's really not.

the Vital One said:
You give them the Gospels as proof and that isn't good enough because it was written by Christians and therefore biased. You give them secular sources close to the time of Christ and those aren't good enough because they've been tainted by Christians. You give them other secular sources and they don't count because they came too late.

Yes, they can say that and, from a certain angle, they are correct on a number of points. There's little in the New Testament that necessitates or self evidentially compels assent to conclusions which extend from the historical and into the theological. We can reason that Jesus of Nazareth was a real live flesh and blood human being, but we then have to take it on additional testimony from the New Testament writers and the various extra-textual traditions from within and among the Church that Jesus also rose from the dead.

Then, too, there are other epistemological problems mixed in that easily bring about further and more complicated issues that affect any one person's ability to believe the New Testament reports, one of which is the spiritual need for God's help "to believe" in addition to contemplating the New Testament writings.

the Vital One said:
Atheists think they're governed by logic and science and have an incorruptible, rational view of everything. There's a least one fallacy they keep coming back to and it's changing the goalposts.

It often happens that those who have abandoned the faith have done so for one of two reasons 1) they experienced abuse and or severe disappointment with the Christian faith (or with the interpretation given to them at their local church, or 2) they tend to have a more inquisitive nature and require firmer expositions of evidence and proof than other people do. I can actually respect the latter outcome if I know they're being honest about their doubts.

But to say they change the goalposts is, I think, not the case much of the time.

Usually, it's only those with an axe to grind who directly attempt to troll Christians by maliciously changing the goalposts. Fortunately, it's not your or my moral responsibility to weather their onslaughts and their mind games. So, don't worry over it.

o_mlly · Sunday at 11:56 AM

Desk trauma said:
Right ...

So we agree.

Desk trauma said:
... so if the answer to the question of belief in something, faeries say, is no than any other beliefs that person holds do not exist?

What other beliefs? You wrote you have only one in common:

Desk trauma said:
Atheism is a stance on one issue and one issue only.

RamiC · Sunday at 12:09 PM

the Vital One said:
It seems like whenever one tries to provide evidence of God, the Bible, ect. to an atheist they keep changing the goalposts.

Only if the atheist is offering to believe in God if you can meet certain conditions, otherwise there is no reason to think there are any goalposts.

Desk trauma · Sunday at 12:11 PM

o_mlly said:
So we agree.

No, we do not, and I would thank you to refrain from such selective editing of my words to make them say what you want rather then what I said.

o_mlly said:
What other beliefs?

Every other subject that humans have beliefs about outside of the question of the existence of god/s: how we should be governed, whats the best economic system, the correct way to face your toilet paper roll.

o_mlly said:
You wrote you have only one in common:

Correct, atheism is a position on one question and one question only.

o_mlly · Sunday at 12:37 PM

Desk trauma said:
No, we do not, and I would thank you to refrain from such selective editing of my words to make them say what you want rather then what I said.

I separated your post for clarity. Kindly show how doing so misconstrues your full post by explaining exactly what you meant by "Right ..."

Desk trauma said:
Every other subject that humans have beliefs about outside of the question of the existence of god/s: how we should be governed, whats the best economic system, the correct way to face your toilet paper roll.

Are atheists in full agreement on those issues? I think not.

Everyone knows that the correct way to load toilet rolls is to face cut-side out.

Desk trauma · Sunday at 12:41 PM

o_mlly said:
Kindly show how doing so misconstrues your full post by explaining exactly what you meant by "Right ..."

Be insinuating that I agree with your premise that atheists hold no beliefs.

o_mlly said:
Are atheists in full agreement on those issues? I think not.

No, they are not, which was my point about atheism being a position on one issue and atheists hold beliefs about other subjects rather than this "they don't believe nothin" nonsense.

o_mlly · Sunday at 12:53 PM

Desk trauma said:
Be insinuating that I agree with your premise that atheists hold no beliefs.

Insinuate? You wrote "Right ...". So why did you do so? If you were trying to be sarcastic you should let readers know.

Desk trauma said:
No, they are not, which was my point about atheism being a position on one issue and atheists hold beliefs about other subjects rather than this "they don't believe nothin" nonsense.

On the singular issue of anything called "god things", atheist believe "no-things", right?

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Do atheists constantly change the goalposts?

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