A question I’ve been reflecting on about church buildings

dms1972 said:

Leadership involves spiritual gifting.

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Jesus did ***give*** "some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers" (in Ephesians 4:11). But then was when no one was a mature saint with decades of maturing and experience. And so . . . possibly . . . this is why our Apostle Paul does not list any "gift" as a qualification to be a "bishop" >

1 Timothy 3:1-10.

This includes the person being "the husband of one wife" > ***a family man*** > "who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?)".

How he takes care of his own children can show how he would take care of God's children . . . in our Father's family caring and sharing way.

***So . . . leading is not only hierarchical or "particular", but p~e~r~s~o~n~a~l.***

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

An example needs to be someone you know personally, so you can feed on that person's example . . . of how the person really is and how the person relates.

We see how Paul and Silvanus and Timothy were personal examples to the Thessalonians >

"we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children" > in 1 Thessalonians 2:7 >
"we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children" > in 1 Thessalonians 2:11.

And this comes with first trusting in Jesus so we are trusting Him by submitting to Him in us. Jesus is the Lord of all; and we most benefit from how Jesus is ruling, by obeying how in us He rules us with His very own peace > we are commanded to obey how God rules us in His own peace > "in one body" > every one of us >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, in God's one church God Himself is personally ruling every one of us in His own peace. This is personal of God, Himself . . . in our "hearts" > very personal, indeed.

And because this peace is God's own peace, this peace has God's own almighty power which makes Him Himself immune to howsoever evil would affect and control and hurt Him > this peace, also, "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus", our Apostle Paul guarantees . . . while we pray the way God's word says to pray >

"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;" (Philippians 4:6).

Therefore, while we obey God in His peace, we share with Him in His own immunity almighty . . . as our Apostle Peter also says >

"And who is he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good?" (1 Peter 3:13)

And in this peace, which is of God's ***all-loving*** love in us > we also share with our Creator in His creativity for how to love any person, and how to relate with one another who are submissive to God in His peace >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

So, in ruling by example, there is this mutually submissive relating, included . . . "and personal".

And our Apostle Paul wrote >

"For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19)

What I get from this is that Paul knew there would be wrong influencers. But he also knew how Jesus' sheep can hear His voice . . . so we can tell the difference between the fakers and the ones who are "approved". Sheep also have the sense of smell, so that, no matter how cleverly someone can talk, we can *s-m-e-l-l* the difference > with maturity we have "senses exercised to discern both good and evil", we have in Hebrews 5:14.

So, this is basic, included in what we need to trust God for, in prayer requests for all which is possible with God.

joechristianwarrior said:

Hi everyone,


I’ve been spending time rereading the Gospels and Acts, and something has been standing out to me.

When Jesus said, “Follow Me,” He didn’t seem to connect discipleship with buildings or institutions. He taught on hillsides, roads, and in homes. Stephen later said, “The Most High does not live in houses made by human hands” (Acts 7:48).


Yet today, church buildings often represent the largest financial focus of Christian communities.


I recently made a short video exploring this question from Scripture. My intention isn’t to simply "criticize the Church", but to reflect honestly on whether our modern structures line up with Jesus’ teachings about worship and caring for the poor.


I’d love to hear your thoughts:
Do you think church buildings help discipleship, or can they sometimes distract from it?

Grace and peace to you all.

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The Bible provides for whatever question that we ask - wonderful question. I came across this thread and I want to provide a more in-depth answer to see how Jesus actually established the church and its meaning now.

I wrote about this in a previous thread! Some might not be able to see the meaning of Church clearly, but hopefully God will reveal it all.

So, Christ first established His church through actual churches, and He placed guardians/angels over them. These churches were Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodiceans. These churches are seven major churches first established by Christ for the purpose of the gospel of Christ to spread throughout all the world.

These seven churches where the gospel would be spread from (starting point), were patterned after the Temple, God’s dwelling place.

Why not just one church? Because the seven churches are/represents the seven golden candlesticks that were in the temple, and the light that burned from the seven golden candlesticks were never to be put out - they were commanded to burn continuously in the temple; now the light of the gospel of Christ burn’s continuously through the church of Christ spreading the message of the gospel.
Exodus 27:20
And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

John writes he heard a great voice,
Revelation 1:11 KJV
“Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.”

John turns to see the voice, and he sees seven golden candlesticks, and Christ in the midst of them. In Christ’s right hand John sees seven stars, and a sharp two edge sword;
1) Seven golden candlesticks are the seven churches, and the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches,
Revelation 1:20 KJV
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

2) The sharp two- edged sword is the word of God,
Hebrews 4:2 KJV
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The messenger angel sent to John relays a message to John from each of the seven stars/angels in Christ right hand - the messenger angel tells John to write the message from the seven stars/angels regarding their particular church.

In Revelations 2 & 3 you have the messenger angel, just before relaying the message John is to write, acknowledging the angel that’s sending the message for a particular church - saying “unto the angel…”

These are not letters written to seven angels, these are messages from seven angels, relaying a message from Christ to the seven churches - the seven golden candlesticks, which are in the midst of the temple of God, who are the church.

The Messenger angel - out of respect - acknowledges the angel over a particular church before telling John to write the angels’s message,

Revelation 2:1 KJV
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus (acknowledgment) write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;…)

Revelation 2:18 KJV
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira (acknowledgment) write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;…)

And so on. In all the messages to the seven churches, the messenger angel first acknowledges that the message John is to write is from the angel of the church of each one of the churches, and tells him to write..)

These messages are written to churches that have not physically existed for centuries, so why write letters to these churches that no longer exist? Because these churches were where the church of Christ was established, and although they no longer physically exist, the seven churches remain in force today, being upheld by the angel of a particular church, where the light of the seven golden candlesticks/the seven churches never goes out, where the gospel is continually spread by the Church (who represents the seven churches), throughout the world in every generation until Christ comes.

Church buildings and different denominations are not recognized as God’s Church. Only the seven churches in Asia Minor who John wrote to in Revelation 2 & 3 - churches where the gospel started and spread throughout the world, whose light of the gospel still shines bright, and upheld by the seven angels in Christ’s right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, representing the people of Christ, the Church.

It’s true, we are suppose to meet together the way Christ met with his disciples, and the way He met with and taught the people. We are suppose to study the Bible together - meet and fellowship with one another in our homes, and at gatherings. Not necessarily church buildings.

Thanks for your post.

But if we have these buildings might we not be thankful and use them for the time being? Some fellowships I know of have to hire a public building or hall. Either they are new churches, or possibly groups that have found themselves outside the mainline churches and cannot yet afford a building.

At what point did commerce and real estate become a determining factor in the spread of the Gospel?

timothyu said: "At what point did commerce and real estate become a determining factor in the spread of the Gospel?"

I'm not sure who your comment is to? Was someone saying it was a determining factor?

dms1972 said:

Was someone saying it was a determining factor?

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The whole thread is about buildings

This is the AI reply:

"The construction of dedicated church buildings began in the early 3rd century AD, with the Dura-Europos church being one of the earliest known examples, dating from around 233-256 AD."

• c. 232–256 AD: House converted into a Christian chapel and decorated

JustaPewFiller said:

In my area we have 1 church currently that does not have a building.

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My wife attends a church that allows them to use their youth room. Even they let them use the sunday school program and do not charge them anything at all. But of course they make a donation. They have maybe 50 or 60 adults. They could maybe get 100 but that would be tight.

The problem is everyone wants to meet late morning. Because lots of churches would be glad for you to use their sanctuary when they are not using it.

Still a lot of churches have a lot of space for a smaller church, Could be the gym or fellowship room or something. If your looking to save money that would be the way to go. Most churches sit vaccant most of the time.

I would think it would be up to the elders to decide if they are willing to do that. You could ask around and talk to different pastors to see what they say.