Jews First, Jews Only, Covenant‑Bound Rituals.

BrotherJJ · Thursday at 10:31 PM

Jews First, Jews Only, Covenant‑Bound Rituals. From John's Baptism to Cornelius.

No Gentiles Until God Breaks the Pattern. Until God Himself flips the baptism script with Gentiles (Acts 10).

John the Baptist's Ministry was 100% Jewish.
John's baptism was in Judean wilderness, in the Jordan & was for Israelites only. He called Jews to repentance, preparing Israel for their Messiah, using categories rooted in Jewish purification. No Gentiles are ever baptized by John. Not one. Because Gentiles were outside the Mosaic covenant. (See Eph 2:12). Jesus Himself affirms this covenant divide when He calls the Canaanite woman a dog (Matt 15:26). Not an insult, a covenant reality.

Jesus' Ministry Still Israel‑First, Israel‑Only. Jesus sends the Twelve: Do not go to the Gentiles, go only to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matt 10:5–6)
Jesus affirms: Salvation is of the Jews. (Jn 4:22)

From the Gospels all the way to Acts 10, Gentiles remain: unclean, outside the covenant, not part of Israel's baptismal or purification rites.

Pentecost (Acts 2) Still 100% Jewish

Pentecost, under Mosaic law every Jewish male 20 years & older was required to travel to Jerusalem & attend the festival. Jewish males from every nation (Acts 2:5) were there. The fulfillment of Joel's prophecy to Israel unfolds. The launch of the New Covenant begins with, Jews only.

Peter's audience: Men of Judea, All who dwell in Jerusalem, Men of Israel. No Gentiles. Not one.

Acts 2:38 is spoken to Israel, under Jewish covenant categories, at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy.

You cannot broad‑brush Gentiles into John's baptism or Peter's Acts 2 sermon. They simply don't belong there.

After Pentecost the gospel message is still Jews Only

Even after the resurrection & Pentecost: Peter says it is unlawful to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28). Jewish believers contend/dispute with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3). Scattered believers preach ""to Jews only"" (Acts 11:19). Jews try to kill Paul for allegedly bringing a Gentile into the Temple (Acts 21:28–36). Jews wouldn't enter the Roman judgment hall "lest they be defiled/deemed unclean (Acts 18:28). The Mosaic covenant wall is still fully intact.

Acts 10 God Flips the NT inclusion Script:
Cornelius is the 1st uncircumcised Gentile to enter the New Covenant & God does it in a way that breaks the Jewish pattern:

At Pentecost (Acts 2): Repent > Water > Spirit. At Cornelius' house (Acts 10): Spirit > Water. God reverses the order & Jewish believer witnesses cannot deny Gentile inclusion.

Peter's interpretation: (the only interpretation that matters)
The Holy Spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning. (Acts 11:15). Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16). God GAVE THEM the SAME GIFT as He GAVE US (11:17). God purified their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9). God made no distinction" (Acts 15:9). This is the moment God collapses the old covenant wall.

The Holy Spirit/Eternal life is a GIFT GIVEN thru Faith (Rom 6:23 & Jn 5:24)

The Gospel for the Body of Christ Today
The Acts 2 message "Repent & be baptized". Is not the gospel for the Body of Christ.

The New Covenant Body of Christ gospel for Jew & Gentile alike is:
1 Cor 15:
3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],

4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold],
(NOTE: First importance: Christ died for your sins (paying sins required wage/DEATH) was buried (proof He died) & on the 3rd day rose (Fathers receipt sins requited wage accepted)

Rom 10:
9 if you acknowledge and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [recognizing His power, authority, and majesty as God], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with the heart a person believes [in Christ as Savior] resulting in his justification [that is, being made righteous—being freed of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]; and with the mouth he acknowledges and confesses [his faith openly], resulting in and confirming [his] salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM [whoever adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED [in his expectations].
(NOTE: Peter say's the same thing Acts 2:21 > 17 verses before Acts 2:38)

Titus 2:11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
(NOTE: Grace has a name its Jesus the Christ)

Grace: Is a Given freely & received thru FAITH: (Rom 3:24, 4:16, 5:1-2, 15, "11:6" "Eph 2:5 & 8" Rom 5:1-2)

Eph 1:
13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.
(Note: Hear about Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection > Believe it > Receive Salvations Eternal Life Seal Jesus Holy Spirit baptism)

keras · Friday at 1:50 AM

BrotherJJ said:
Jesus sends the Twelve: Do not go to the Gentiles, go only to the lost sheep of Israel.

The Jews were never lost, they have maintained their identity throughout the ages.
It is the ten Northern tribes which Jesus was sent to save. Matthew 15:24. He was successful and we Christians are the result;

Ancient Israel did not do as the Lord had commanded them. They worshipped idols and rebelled against His Laws. Ezekiel 12:1 So the Lord sent them into exile – Ezekiel 12:3, for a decreed time period; Ezekiel 4:4-6 Before this happened, the Israelites had split into two kingdoms; then the House of Israel, was taken into exile by Assyria, and the House of Judah, deported by Babylon. Deuteronomy 4:27

What happened to them and the land?
Ezekiel 6:8-14 Among the nations, there will be those of you who have survived the sword and are scattered in foreign lands. They will remember Me while in exile and they will loath themselves for the evil they have done.
Remember the Lord, that is: become Christians.

You will know that My threats were not in vain. Justice will be done. Nahum 1:2-3

Cry in pain, because of your wickedness, people of Israel. You will die by sword, famine and plague. Black Death, civil wars, world wars, starvation, etc.
So, I will spend My wrath upon them. Your Land will become a desolation.

Travellers in the 1800’s were amazed at the awful conditions in the Middle East of desertification, still today; with water shortages and continuing strife.
In Ezekiel chapter 11, after the House of Israel had been exiled, Ezekiel is prophesying to the leaders of Judah. In verses 1 to 13, he says that Judah too, will be conquered. Then in verse 15, he mentions their brothers and kinsmen, [the House of Israel, then in Northern Assyria] to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say: They are separated far from the Lord, the land has been made over to us [Jews] to possess.

Ezekiel 11:16-44 Say therefore, When I dispersed them over the earth, I became their sanctuary in the countries where they have gone. I shall gather you from among the nations and I shall give the Land of Israel to you. Judah has come back, but in apostasy.

They will abolish all idols and vile practices. Not done yet.
I will give them a new heart and a new spirit. Wait for it!
They will keep My laws and I will be their God. Great will be the Day!

Go you Israelites and serve your idols! But in days to come I will punish you.
On My holy mountain in the Land, the whole [peoples] of Israel will serve Me.

I will accept you, when I have brought you out of all the places where you were sent.
I will bring you into the Land which I promised to the forefathers.

You will remember your past and will hate yourselves for it.
You will know that I am the Lord when I deal with you, not as you really deserve, but as the honour of My holy Name demands.

But now, as we approach the end times, we see a Jewish restoration, but in unbelief. Zechariah 12:7 The Lord will free Judah first, for their greater glory. The State of Israel, now in a part of the holy Land, but they still reject their Messiah and now face another Judgement; the third swing of the Sword. Ezekiel 21:1-14

The forthcoming Day of the Lord’s wrath is also the judgement of Judah, as in:
Amos 2:4-5, Jer. 13:19, Zeph. 1:4-6, Obadiah 1:12-16, Isaiah 4:3-4, Matthew 21:41-43

Only a remnant of the Israelis will survive; Romans 9:27, Isaiah 6:11-13

Ezekiel 20:46-47 O man, turn toward the South, prophesy to the desert of the Negev. The Lord God says: I am about to kindle a fire in you. Its fiery flame will not be put out; everyone to the North will be scorched by it. Zephaniah 1:14-18

The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, Revelation 6:12-17

Isaiah 63:4 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own has come.
I stamped on peoples in My anger and their blood poured out on the ground. Psalms 110

This event will depopulate most of the Middle East, leaving the way for His peoples, all the righteous Christian descendants of Jacob and peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language grafted in by their faith, scattered around the world, to gather in the ‘wilderness’:

Ezekiel 20:34-38 By My strong arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you were dispersed.
I shall confront you and bring you to judgement. Those who rebel will remain in the desert.

Who are the Israelites? Certainly, some must be ethnic descendants of the Patriarchs’, as in:-

Amos 9:8-9 I shall not totally destroy Jacobs posterity. I will shake Israel among the nations and not one pebble will fall to the ground.

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will again show compassion for Jacob [the 12 tribes of Israel] and will once again make Israel His choice. He will resettle them on their native soil and aliens will join them.
Peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9

All faithful Christians have the wonderful promises of the New Testament:-
Acts 2:39 This promise is to you and your children, to all who are far away, to everyone whom the Lord may call.

Luke 12:32-40 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has chosen to give you the Kingdom. Sell your possessions, give to charity. Provide for yourselves treasure [rewards] in Heaven.

Be ready for action. Be like a servant, ready to let your Master in as soon as He knocks.

Happy are those servants whom the Master finds awake when He comes. Truly, I tell you, He will seat you at the table and wait on you.

If it is midnight or before dawn and you are still awake, then great will be your reward.

Remember, if the householder had known when a thief would come, he would have stopped him.

So, be ready for the Son of Man will come when you least expect Him.

This refers to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, not His Return, when He will be expected, as the armies of the Anti-Christ attack Jerusalem. Revelation 19:19
Reference; Revised English Bible, some verses condensed.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 7:58 AM

BrotherJJ said:
God Flips the Script

Is this your point that suddenly God changed His mind and decided to include non Jews? I disagree in fact, while Jesus Christ of Nazareth was alive He specifically said that He had another sheep that was not of the Jewish fold.

John 10:16
"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

By saying He must bring them in so there will be "one flock and one shepherd," Jesus was foretelling the removal of the spiritual "middle wall of separation" between Jews and Gentiles, as described later by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:14. Gentile conversion was already taking place even before the conversion of Cornelius. Additionally, while Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked the earth He indeed came across a Gentile with great faith!

In Matthew 8:10 :
Jesus marveled at the Roman centurion who believed Jesus could heal his servant simply by speaking a word. He declared, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!"

We can say with confidence that this Centurion already had a foot in the door of salvation as his faith was greater than any Jewish believer.

And lastly, Jesus Christ of Nazareth already prophesied that tve Jewish nation would be set aside because of their unbelief.
Matthew 21:43, stating, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it."

Let us reason. Please. Jews first yes however, His other Flock was already being formed while He was still alive.

Be blessed.

BrotherJJ · Friday at 8:10 AM

keras said:
The Jews were never lost, they have maintained their identity throughout the ages.
It is the ten Northern tribes which Jesus was sent to save. Matthew 15:24. He was successful and we Christians are the result;

Ancient Israel did not do as the Lord had commanded them. They worshipped idols and rebelled against His Laws. Ezekiel 12:1 So the Lord sent them into exile – Ezekiel 12:3, for a decreed time period; Ezekiel 4:4-6 Before this happened, the Israelites had split into two kingdoms; then the House of Israel, was taken into exile by Assyria, and the House of Judah, deported by Babylon. Deuteronomy 4:27

What happened to them and the land?
Ezekiel 6:8-14 Among the nations, there will be those of you who have survived the sword and are scattered in foreign lands. They will remember Me while in exile and they will loath themselves for the evil they have done.
Remember the Lord, that is: become Christians.

You will know that My threats were not in vain. Justice will be done. Nahum 1:2-3

Cry in pain, because of your wickedness, people of Israel. You will die by sword, famine and plague. Black Death, civil wars, world wars, starvation, etc.
So, I will spend My wrath upon them. Your Land will become a desolation.

Travellers in the 1800’s were amazed at the awful conditions in the Middle East of desertification, still today; with water shortages and continuing strife.
In Ezekiel chapter 11, after the House of Israel had been exiled, Ezekiel is prophesying to the leaders of Judah. In verses 1 to 13, he says that Judah too, will be conquered. Then in verse 15, he mentions their brothers and kinsmen, [the House of Israel, then in Northern Assyria] to whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say: They are separated far from the Lord, the land has been made over to us [Jews] to possess.

Ezekiel 11:16-44 Say therefore, When I dispersed them over the earth, I became their sanctuary in the countries where they have gone. I shall gather you from among the nations and I shall give the Land of Israel to you. Judah has come back, but in apostasy.

They will abolish all idols and vile practices. Not done yet.
I will give them a new heart and a new spirit. Wait for it!
They will keep My laws and I will be their God. Great will be the Day!

Go you Israelites and serve your idols! But in days to come I will punish you.
On My holy mountain in the Land, the whole [peoples] of Israel will serve Me.

I will accept you, when I have brought you out of all the places where you were sent.
I will bring you into the Land which I promised to the forefathers.

You will remember your past and will hate yourselves for it.
You will know that I am the Lord when I deal with you, not as you really deserve, but as the honour of My holy Name demands.

But now, as we approach the end times, we see a Jewish restoration, but in unbelief. Zechariah 12:7 The Lord will free Judah first, for their greater glory. The State of Israel, now in a part of the holy Land, but they still reject their Messiah and now face another Judgement; the third swing of the Sword. Ezekiel 21:1-14

The forthcoming Day of the Lord’s wrath is also the judgement of Judah, as in:
Amos 2:4-5, Jer. 13:19, Zeph. 1:4-6, Obadiah 1:12-16, Isaiah 4:3-4, Matthew 21:41-43

Only a remnant of the Israelis will survive; Romans 9:27, Isaiah 6:11-13

Ezekiel 20:46-47 O man, turn toward the South, prophesy to the desert of the Negev. The Lord God says: I am about to kindle a fire in you. Its fiery flame will not be put out; everyone to the North will be scorched by it. Zephaniah 1:14-18

The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, Revelation 6:12-17

Isaiah 63:4 I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the year for redeeming My own has come.
I stamped on peoples in My anger and their blood poured out on the ground. Psalms 110

This event will depopulate most of the Middle East, leaving the way for His peoples, all the righteous Christian descendants of Jacob and peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language grafted in by their faith, scattered around the world, to gather in the ‘wilderness’:

Ezekiel 20:34-38 By My strong arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you were dispersed.
I shall confront you and bring you to judgement. Those who rebel will remain in the desert.

Who are the Israelites? Certainly, some must be ethnic descendants of the Patriarchs’, as in:-

Amos 9:8-9 I shall not totally destroy Jacobs posterity. I will shake Israel among the nations and not one pebble will fall to the ground.

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will again show compassion for Jacob [the 12 tribes of Israel] and will once again make Israel His choice. He will resettle them on their native soil and aliens will join them.
Peoples from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 7:9

All faithful Christians have the wonderful promises of the New Testament:-
Acts 2:39 This promise is to you and your children, to all who are far away, to everyone whom the Lord may call.

Luke 12:32-40 Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has chosen to give you the Kingdom. Sell your possessions, give to charity. Provide for yourselves treasure [rewards] in Heaven.

Be ready for action. Be like a servant, ready to let your Master in as soon as He knocks.

Happy are those servants whom the Master finds awake when He comes. Truly, I tell you, He will seat you at the table and wait on you.

If it is midnight or before dawn and you are still awake, then great will be your reward.

Remember, if the householder had known when a thief would come, he would have stopped him.

So, be ready for the Son of Man will come when you least expect Him.

This refers to the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, not His Return, when He will be expected, as the armies of the Anti-Christ attack Jerusalem. Revelation 19:19
Reference; Revised English Bible, some verses condensed.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that. I want to respond respectfully & stay focused on the actual topic I raised.

Your entire reply deals with Assyrian exile, Babylonian exile, prophetic judgments, end‑times geography & the future restoration of Israel. Those are important subjects, but they are not what my post was about.

My point was very narrow & very specific: Who was included in the covenant‑bound purification/baptism pattern from John > Jesus > Pentecost > Acts 1–9 & when Gentiles were 1st included?

To that question, your reply didn't address: John's baptism, Jesus' "Israel‑only" commission (Matt 10:5–6), Jesus' ""I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel"" (Matt 15:24), Pentecost being a Jewish feast for Jewish males (Acts 2:5), Peter addressing only Jews (Acts 2:14, 22, 36), The fact that no Gentile is baptized anywhere in Acts 1–9, Peter declaring it ""unlawful"" to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28), Jewish believers disputing with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3), Scattered believers preaching “to Jews only” (Acts 11:19), The Temple riot because they thought Paul brought a Gentile inside (Acts 21:28–29).

All of that is New Testament evidence showing the Mosaic covenant wall was still intact.

Most importantly, your reply didn't address Peter's own interpretation of Gentile inclusion: The Holy Spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning (Acts 11:15), Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16), God gave them the same gift as He gave us, (Acts 11:17), God made no distinction between us & them. (Acts 15:9), Purifying their hearts by faith (Acts 15:9).

That is the moment the pattern changes. That is the moment Gentiles enter the New Covenant. That is the moment the Mosaic wall collapses. Your reply never touched this.

The Core Issue Remains Unanswered: 1. John's baptism = Jews only, Jesus' earthly mission = Israel only, Pentecost Holy Spirit outpouring = Jews only, Acts 1–9 = Jews only, Acts 10 = 1st uncircumcised Gentiles NT inclusion, Peter says God reversed the order (Spirit > water), Peter says this fulfills the Holy Spirit baptism, Peter says God made no distinction, Therefore Acts 2:38 is not the universal gospel pattern, The gospel for Jew & Gentile today is 1 Cor 15, Rom 10, Eph 1. Your reply didn't engage with any of those points.

Instead, you shifted to Old Testament exile history & end‑times prophecy. Interesting topics, but they don't answer the New Testament post points.

To move forward the discussion, we need to stay inside the actual text I raised:
Who did John baptize?
Who did Jesus send the Twelve to?
Who was present at Pentecost?
Why does Peter say it was unlawful to enter a Gentile home?
Why does Peter say Cornelius received the Spirit ""as at the beginning""?
Why does Peter say God made no distinction?
Why does Acts 11:19 say they preached to Jews only?
Why does Acts 15 say Gentile hearts were purified by faith, not ritual

Those are the questions that determine whether Acts 2:38 is the gospel for the Body of Christ today.

Let's stay with the OP's actual issue: When did Gentiles 1st enter the New Covenant & what pattern did God Himself use? That's the heart of the post.

BrotherJJ · Friday at 10:18 AM

Maria Billingsley said:
Is this your point that suddenly God changed His mind and decided to include non Jews? I disagree in fact, while Jesus Christ of Nazareth was alive He specifically said that He had another sheep that was not of the Jewish fold.

John 10:16
"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

By saying He must bring them in so there will be "one flock and one shepherd," Jesus was foretelling the removal of the spiritual "middle wall of separation" between Jews and Gentiles, as described later by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2:14. Gentile conversion was already taking place even before the conversion of Cornelius. Additionally, while Jesus Christ of Nazareth walked the earth He indeed came across a Gentile with great faith!

In Matthew 8:10 :
Jesus marveled at the Roman centurion who believed Jesus could heal his servant simply by speaking a word. He declared, "Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!"

We can say with confidence that this Centurion already had a foot in the door of salvation as his faith was greater than any Jewish believer.

And lastly, Jesus Christ of Nazareth already prophesied that tve Jewish nation would be set aside because of their unbelief.
Matthew 21:43, stating, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it."

Let us reason. Please. Jews first yes however, His other Flock was already being formed while He was still alive.

Be blessed.

You picked a really important line to tag, so let me start by clarifying it: ""God flips the script"" does not mean ""God changed His mind."" It means: God, at a specific moment in history, publicly changed the administration of His already‑planned purpose.

Common throughout scripture Abraham - Mosaic law - NT Body of Christ...

The question isn't: Did God always intend to include Gentiles? We both agree He did.

The question is: When & by what pattern, did He actually bring uncircumcised Gentiles into the New Covenant? That's what my post was about.

Jn 10:16, prophecy, not present inclusion. You quoted: Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold; them also I must bring. There will be 1 flock, 1 shepherd.

I agree completely, this is a prophecy of Gentile inclusion & the removal of the ""middle wall of separation"" (Eph 2:14).

But notice: Jesus says: ""them also I must bring"" (future action). ""There will be one flock"" (future reality). Jn 10:16 tells us that Gentiles will be brought in. Acts 10–11 tells us when & how that actually happens in history.

Peter himself connects the dots: The Spirit fell on Cornelius ""as on us at the beginning"" (Acts 11:15). Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16). God gave them the same gift as He gave us (Acts 11:17). God made no distinction, purifying their hearts by faith (Acts 15:9). John 10:16 is the promise. Acts 10–11 is the fulfillment.

That's not God changing His mind—that's God keeping His plan, on His timetable.

""Gentile conversion was already taking place - where""? You said: ""Gentile conversion was already taking place even before the conversion of Cornelius.""

But in the New Testament record:
No Gentiles are baptized by John.
No Gentiles are sent to by the Twelve (Matt 10:5–6).
Jesus says He was sent ""only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24).
Pentecost is a Jewish feast, with ""devout Jews"" from every nation (Acts 2:5).
Peter addresses ""Men of Judea, Men of Israel"" (Acts 2:14, 22, 36).
After Pentecost, believers preach ""to Jews only"" (Acts 11:19).
Peter still calls it ""unlawful"" to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28).
Jewish believers contend/dispute with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3).

If Gentile conversion in the New Covenant (Holy Spirit‑baptized, no distinction, full inclusion) was already happening...

Why: Are Peter & Pentecost Jews ASTONISHED that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost? (Acts 10:45)
Why: Does Peter act shocked in Acts 11?
Why: Jewish believers argue with him about it?
Why: Luke say they preached to """Jews only"""" up to that point? Acts 11:19
Why: Peter point back to Cornelius as the beginning of Gentile inclusion?

The text itself presents Cornelius as the 1st uncircumcised Gentile brought in on equal footing via Jesus Holy Spirit baptism.

The Roman centurion ""great faith"" yes, but not yet New Covenant inclusion

You mentioned the centurion in Matthew 8. I agree—Jesus marvels at his faith & contrasts it with Israel's unbelief. BUT:
The centurion is not said to be baptized into Christ. He is not said to receive the Holy Spirit. He is not presented as part of the ""one flock yet. He is an example of faith recognized, not New Covenant incorporation.

Same with the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15, Jesus commends her faith, but still frames His mission as ""to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24) & calls her a DOG in covenantal terms (outside the children's bread).

These are foreshadows & signposts, not yet the full opening of the door.

Matthew 21:43 again, prophecy of transfer, not its historical moment. YOU CITED:
The kingdom of God will be taken from you & given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. (Matt 21:43)

Again, I agree this anticipates judgment on unbelieving Israel & transfer to a believing people (Jew & Gentile in one Body).

But the question remains: When, in history, does that transfer begin to be publicly enacted toward Gentiles?

The New Testament answer is still: Not in John's baptism - Not in Jesus' limited earthly mission - Not at Pentecost - Not in Acts 1–9.

But in Acts 10, when God GIVES the Holy Spirit to uncircumcised Gentiles before water & Peter says:
Who can forbid water ? (Acts 10:47) - God GAVE TTHEM the same GIFT as He GAVE US [Pentecost] (Acts 11:17) - God made no distinction (Acts 15:9).

Jews first, yes. But ""other flock"" formed when God says so. So I'm not denying:
That God always intended to include Gentiles. That Jesus foretold ""other sheep."" That Gentiles with great faith appear in the Gospels. That Israel's unbelief would lead to a transfer.

I'm saying:
The ritual, covenant‑bound pattern from John > Jesus > Pentecost > Acts 1–9 is Jews‑only & the 1st uncircumcised Gentiles brought into the New Covenant, with no distinction, by Holy Spirit baptism, are in Acts 10.

Peter himself interprets that event as the decisive turning point. So ""God flips the script"" doesn't mean He changed His mind.

It means He publicly changed the order and pattern—from: Jews: Repent > Water > Spirit (Acts 2)

to

Gentiles: Hear > Believe > Receive the Holy Spirit >> Water (Acts 10; Eph 1:13–14)

And from that point on, the gospel for Jew and Gentile alike is: Christ died for our sins, was buried, & rose again (1 Cor 15:3–4). Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame (Rom 10:9–11). Hear > believe > sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13–14).

A couple questions:

Why are Peter & other Acts 2 Pentecost Jews, ASTONISHED that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost? (Acts 10:45)

And

In Acts 10, which baptism marks the moment God purified, saved & accepted gentiles?

The Holy Spirit baptism Jesus performs in Acts 10:44. OR The water baptism Peter performs afterward in Acts 10:47?

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 1:36 PM

BrotherJJ said:
You picked a really important line to tag, so let me start by clarifying it: ""God flips the script"" does not mean ""God changed His mind."" It means: God, at a specific moment in history, publicly changed the administration of His already‑planned purpose.

Common throughout scripture Abraham - Mosaic law - NT Body of Christ...

The question isn't: Did God always intend to include Gentiles? We both agree He did.

The question is: When & by what pattern, did He actually bring uncircumcised Gentiles into the New Covenant? That's what my post was about.

Jn 10:16, prophecy, not present inclusion. You quoted: Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold; them also I must bring. There will be 1 flock, 1 shepherd.

I agree completely, this is a prophecy of Gentile inclusion & the removal of the ""middle wall of separation"" (Eph 2:14).

But notice: Jesus says: ""them also I must bring"" (future action). ""There will be one flock"" (future reality). Jn 10:16 tells us that Gentiles will be brought in. Acts 10–11 tells us when & how that actually happens in history.

Peter himself connects the dots: The Spirit fell on Cornelius ""as on us at the beginning"" (Acts 11:15). Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16). God gave them the same gift as He gave us (Acts 11:17). God made no distinction, purifying their hearts by faith (Acts 15:9). John 10:16 is the promise. Acts 10–11 is the fulfillment.

That's not God changing His mind—that's God keeping His plan, on His timetable.

""Gentile conversion was already taking place - where""? You said: ""Gentile conversion was already taking place even before the conversion of Cornelius.""

But in the New Testament record:
No Gentiles are baptized by John.
No Gentiles are sent to by the Twelve (Matt 10:5–6).
Jesus says He was sent ""only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24).
Pentecost is a Jewish feast, with ""devout Jews"" from every nation (Acts 2:5).
Peter addresses ""Men of Judea, Men of Israel"" (Acts 2:14, 22, 36).
After Pentecost, believers preach ""to Jews only"" (Acts 11:19).
Peter still calls it ""unlawful"" to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28).
Jewish believers contend/dispute with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3).

If Gentile conversion in the New Covenant (Holy Spirit‑baptized, no distinction, full inclusion) was already happening...

Why: Are Peter & Pentecost Jews ASTONISHED that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost? (Acts 10:45)
Why: Does Peter act shocked in Acts 11?
Why: Jewish believers argue with him about it?
Why: Luke say they preached to """Jews only"""" up to that point? Acts 11:19
Why: Peter point back to Cornelius as the beginning of Gentile inclusion?

The text itself presents Cornelius as the 1st uncircumcised Gentile brought in on equal footing via Jesus Holy Spirit baptism.

The Roman centurion ""great faith"" yes, but not yet New Covenant inclusion

You mentioned the centurion in Matthew 8. I agree—Jesus marvels at his faith & contrasts it with Israel's unbelief. BUT:
The centurion is not said to be baptized into Christ. He is not said to receive the Holy Spirit. He is not presented as part of the ""one flock yet. He is an example of faith recognized, not New Covenant incorporation.

Same with the Canaanite woman in Matthew 15, Jesus commends her faith, but still frames His mission as ""to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"" (Matt 15:24) & calls her a DOG in covenantal terms (outside the children's bread).

These are foreshadows & signposts, not yet the full opening of the door.

Matthew 21:43 again, prophecy of transfer, not its historical moment. YOU CITED:
The kingdom of God will be taken from you & given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. (Matt 21:43)

Again, I agree this anticipates judgment on unbelieving Israel & transfer to a believing people (Jew & Gentile in one Body).

But the question remains: When, in history, does that transfer begin to be publicly enacted toward Gentiles?

The New Testament answer is still: Not in John's baptism - Not in Jesus' limited earthly mission - Not at Pentecost - Not in Acts 1–9.

But in Acts 10, when God GIVES the Holy Spirit to uncircumcised Gentiles before water & Peter says:
Who can forbid water ? (Acts 10:47) - God GAVE TTHEM the same GIFT as He GAVE US [Pentecost] (Acts 11:17) - God made no distinction (Acts 15:9).

Jews first, yes. But ""other flock"" formed when God says so. So I'm not denying:
That God always intended to include Gentiles. That Jesus foretold ""other sheep."" That Gentiles with great faith appear in the Gospels. That Israel's unbelief would lead to a transfer.

I'm saying:
The ritual, covenant‑bound pattern from John > Jesus > Pentecost > Acts 1–9 is Jews‑only & the 1st uncircumcised Gentiles brought into the New Covenant, with no distinction, by Holy Spirit baptism, are in Acts 10.

Peter himself interprets that event as the decisive turning point. So ""God flips the script"" doesn't mean He changed His mind.

It means He publicly changed the order and pattern—from: Jews: Repent > Water > Spirit (Acts 2)

to

Gentiles: Hear > Believe > Receive the Holy Spirit >> Water (Acts 10; Eph 1:13–14)

And from that point on, the gospel for Jew and Gentile alike is: Christ died for our sins, was buried, & rose again (1 Cor 15:3–4). Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame (Rom 10:9–11). Hear > believe > sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13–14).

A couple questions:

Why are Peter & other Acts 2 Pentecost Jews, ASTONISHED that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost? (Acts 10:45)

And

In Acts 10, which baptism marks the moment God purified, saved & accepted gentiles?

The Holy Spirit baptism Jesus performs in Acts 10:44. OR The water baptism Peter performs afterward in Acts 10:47?

The New Covenant was established on the Day of Pentecost because without His Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer, there is no regeneration. There is no evidence that " only" Jews were present on that day and the days going forward until Cornelius. . It would only be an assumption.

keras · Friday at 3:23 PM

BrotherJJ said:
My point was very narrow & very specific: Who was included in the covenant‑bound purification/baptism pattern from John > Jesus > Pentecost > Acts 1–9 & when Gentiles were 1st included?

At Pentecost, we Christian peoples were admitted into the Holy people of God.
Role Reversal:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
However, it is only a few of the many generations of believers since the time of Jesus, who have understood the truth of how the amazing role reversals in God’s great plan have unfolded in world history. Consider; Jacob - Esau, Joseph - Reuben.

The majority who have been taught only part of the Gospel, now naively believe that Israel, namely the Jewish people as an ethnic group still have a place in God’s plan and the Christians will be removed to safety.
As everyone knows, the Jewish nation refused the leadership of Jesus Christ. Despite the fact of the free gift of the Lord’s unmerited favour being now available to all peoples, many Christians refuse to accept any termination of God’s grace towards physical Israel, instead insisting the salvation of all the Jews in Christ will happen when Jesus Returns. They do this because the separation of Israel and the Church is an immutable tenet of the rapture theory.

But the Old Testament prophets stated the redemption of the remnant of Israel was to happen in a way that would cause the roles to reverse when it occurred.
In the passage that speaks of Israel as the “clay” and the Lord as the “potter,” Jeremiah 18:1-6, saw how the Lord was going to reconfigure Israel from a flesh and blood family into a spiritual entity, through Jesus. John 3:16

Romans 9:8…It isn’t the children of Abraham by natural descent who are the people of God, but all those born into God’s Promise, Jesus, who are the true children of faith. A simple, straightforward statement of the truth,

Isaiah 29:14-16 & Habakkuk 1:5 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a great work and a wonder…Surely Your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? You will not believe this work when you are told of it.

The “work”, or the object of the potter’s effort, was the advent of Jesus and His atoning sacrifice for all people and it was performed to fulfill God’s promise to bring about the spiritual Israel of God, consisting of individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

As the Apostle Paul spoke Romans 9:21-26, to the Jews who rejected the salvation offered by Jesus, he indicated the long prophesied role reversal, in which the Lord’s chosen people transitioned from an ethnic family to a Spiritual body, had occurred in the amazing life and death of the carpenter from Nazareth: Matthew 28:19

Acts 13:26-27 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you fears God, to you is the Word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every Sabbath day, that they have fulfilled those prophesies in condemning Jesus.
NOW: the Jews still reject Jesus, their fate is coming soon and only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:11-13. Zephaniah 1:14-18, +

BrotherJJ · Friday at 7:49 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
The New Covenant was established on the Day of Pentecost because without His Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer, there is no regeneration. There is no evidence that " only" Jews were present on that day and the days going forward until Cornelius. . It would only be an assumption.

Copied from the OP:

Gentiles were outside the Mosaic covenant. (See Eph 2:12).

Jesus Himself affirms this covenant divide when He calls the Canaanite woman a dog (Matt 15:26). Not an insult, a covenant reality.

Jesus' Ministry Still Israel‑First, Israel‑Only. Jesus sends the Twelve: Do not go to the Gentiles, go only to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matt 10:5–6)

Jesus affirms: Salvation is of the Jews. (Jn 4:22)

Pentecost, under Mosaic law every Jewish male 20 years & older was required to travel to Jerusalem & attend the festival. Jewish males from every nation (Acts 2:5) were there. The fulfillment of Joel's prophecy to Israel unfolds. The launch of the New Covenant begins with, Jews only.

Peter's audience: Men of Judea, All who dwell in Jerusalem, Men of Israel. No Gentiles. Not one.

Acts 2:38 is spoken to Israel, under Jewish covenant categories, at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy.

You cannot broad‑brush Gentiles into John's baptism or Peter's Acts 2 sermon. They simply don't belong there.

Even after the resurrection & Pentecost: Peter says it is unlawful to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28).

Jewish believers contend/dispute with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3).

Scattered believers preach ""to Jews only"" (Acts 11:19).

Jews try to kill Paul for allegedly bringing a Gentile into the Temple (Acts 21:28–36).

Jews wouldn't enter the Roman judgment hall "lest they be defiled/deemed unclean (Acts 18:28). The Mosaic covenant wall is still fully intact.

Many years after Acts 2 Pentecost:
The Holy Spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning. (Acts 11:15).

Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16).

God GAVE THEM the SAME GIFT as He GAVE US (11:17).

God purified their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9).

God made no distinction" (Acts 15:9).

This is the moment God collapses the old Mosaic covenant wall.

These 2 verses along makes it clear:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If gentiles were included at the Acts 2 Pentecost Holy Spirit outpouring.

Why is Peter & the Jews with him ASTONISHED that Jesus just baptized them with the Holy Spirit?

BrotherJJ · Friday at 8:08 PM

keras said:
At Pentecost, we Christian peoples were admitted into the Holy people of God.

Copied from the OP:

Gentiles were outside the Mosaic covenant. (See Eph 2:12).

Jesus Himself affirms this covenant divide when He calls the Canaanite woman a dog (Matt 15:26). Not an insult, a covenant reality.

Jesus' Ministry Still Israel‑First, Israel‑Only. Jesus sends the Twelve: Do not go to the Gentiles, go only to the lost sheep of Israel. (Matt 10:5–6)

Jesus affirms: Salvation is of the Jews. (Jn 4:22)

Pentecost, under Mosaic law every Jewish male 20 years & older was required to travel to Jerusalem & attend the festival. Jewish males from every nation (Acts 2:5) were there. The fulfillment of Joel's prophecy to Israel unfolds. The launch of the New Covenant begins with, Jews only.

Peter's audience: Men of Judea, All who dwell in Jerusalem, Men of Israel. No Gentiles. Not one.

Acts 2:38 is spoken to Israel, under Jewish covenant categories, at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy.

You cannot broad‑brush Gentiles into John's baptism or Peter's Acts 2 sermon. They simply don't belong there.

Even after the resurrection & Pentecost: Peter says it is unlawful to enter a Gentile home (Acts 10:28).

Jewish believers contend/dispute with Peter for eating with Gentiles (Acts 11:2–3).

Scattered believers preach ""to Jews only"" (Acts 11:19).

Jews try to kill Paul for allegedly bringing a Gentile into the Temple (Acts 21:28–36).

Jews wouldn't enter the Roman judgment hall "lest they be defiled/deemed unclean (Acts 18:28). The Mosaic covenant wall is still fully intact.

Many years after Acts 2 Pentecost:
The Holy Spirit fell on them as on us at the beginning. (Acts 11:15).

Then I remembered, You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16).

God GAVE THEM the SAME GIFT as He GAVE US (11:17).

God purified their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9).

God made no distinction" (Acts 15:9).

This is the moment God collapses the old Mosaic covenant wall.

These 2 verses along makes it clear:

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

If gentiles were included at the Acts 2 Pentecost Holy Spirit outpouring.

Why is Peter & the Jews with him ASTONISHED that Jesus just baptized them with the Holy Spirit? A DECADE LATER!

Cornelius House are the 1st gentile Christians (Christ-In-Us). The moment that Christ' Holy Spirit FOREVER (Jn 14:16) indwells them.

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Jews First, Jews Only, Covenant‑Bound Rituals.

BrotherJJ

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keras

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Maria Billingsley

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BrotherJJ

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BrotherJJ

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Maria Billingsley

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keras

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BrotherJJ

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BrotherJJ

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