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WHY WATER BAPTISIM HAD TO GO AWAY ??

LoveofTruth

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This just does not answer the very simple question: "Are you to baptize people today"?
It depends what you mean by “baptism”

I already showed that I don’t believe we are needed to water baptize following the Old Testament “diverse washings” which would include Johns water baptism.

But when we teach or preach the gospel those who believe are baptized into Christ. This is by the Spirit. Our part is connected to this in preaching or teaching the word.
You seem to be saying "yes", but redefine "baptizing" to be teaching the gospel to others,
I don’t redefine it, in the scriptures we read to teach all nations , baptizing them in the name…the spiritual teachings God works in us is by God working in us this spiritual teaching of believed immerses them .

so as the gospel is preached or taught and people believe the word this word immerses them in the name…
but you also only have the Spirit baptizing people, creating three baptisms. Yet that does not fit what happened.
The Spirit is the one who immerses them. The teaching of the word or preaching is spiritual. The teaching is not with men’s wisdom but in the demonstration of the spirit and power …

There are different baptisms in scripture as can be clearly shown. But I believe there is only one saving baptism and that is the baptism into Christ where we put on Christ. This is not water baptism where we put on water. This is done by the Spirit. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body .
 
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Dan Perez

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The saving one baptism” that Peter speaks of in 1 Peter 3:21, never went away ,but he is not speaking of water baptism. The one baptism that all believers have is this one

1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

There are many baptisms in scripture and they are not all water baptism. We read of the baptism eith the Holy Ghost, the baptism unto Moses, the baptism of suffering ,the baptism of Jesus to manifest himself to Israel, the baptism of water for remission of sins by a John, the baptism into christ at salvation where we are baptized into Christ and into one body of Christ.
And anyone that checks the 1 PETER 3:21 will see the word BAPTISM. IS really the GREEK WORD BAPTISMA

and is used. 22 times from. Matthew through 1 Peter 3:21. !!

And there is :

BAPTISMO

BAPTISMA

BAPTO

SPRINKING

BAPTIZED

BAPTISM

And in 1 COR 10:2 And all were BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES in. the CLOUD. and in the SEA. !!

So how were those that FOLLOWED Moses BAPTIZED into MOSES and BAPTIZED. into the CLOUD and in. the SEA ??

dan p
 
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bling

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It depends what you mean by “baptism”

I already showed that I don’t believe we are needed to water baptize following the Old Testament “diverse washings” which would in Clyde Johns water baptism.

But when we teach or preach the gospel those who believe are baptized into Christ. This is by the Spirit. Our part is connected to this in preaching or teaching the word.
Are you trying to derail the discussion by suggesting it is a “definition” issue?

We agree, Baptism means “immersion”. The Bible has immersion/baptism for: water, Spirit, fire, the flood and the Jews going through the red sea.

The only baptism or immersion we can do on another is water baptism.
I don’t redefine it, in the scriptures we read to teach all nations , baptizing them in the name…the spiritual teachings God works in us is by God working in us this spiritual teaching of believed immerses them .

so as the gospel is preached or taught and people believe the word this word immerses them in the name…
At least quote it in the order it was given and do not turn it around.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

You try to make “teach all nations” to mean baptize them. The Baptizing is one thing (then there is a conjunction separating two actions) and then teaching to obey all things.

Where does “teach = baptizing” in scripture, since Paul makes a huge distinction 1 Cor. 1: 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
The Spirit is the one who immerses them. The teaching of the word or preaching is spiritual. The teaching is not with men’s wisdom but in the demonstration of the spirit and power …

There are different baptisms in scripture as can be clearly shown. But I believe there is only one saving baptism and that is the baptism into Christ where we put on Christ. This is not water baptism where we put on water. This is done by the Spirit. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body .
“You believe” does not carry any weight since it contradicts scripture. We are told to baptize people and we cannot do Spiritual baptisms, so what is this other baptism we are to be doing?
 
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LoveofTruth

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It may still be asked, “why did Jesus go specifically into the Jordan river to be water baptized by John, and is there any more we can understand about this from the Old Testament?.
Jesus was fulfilling an Old Testament type when he was baptized into the Jordan river, and this was a deep spiritual truth that he was revealing.
In the book of Joshua we see the type that Jesus fulfilled when he was baptised in the Jordan river. The Jordan river crossing speaks to us of Christ death and resurrection and our union with him and in this and into the new land.

Joshua 3: 1. And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 2. And it came to pass after three days, that the officers went through the host; 3. And they commanded the people, saying, When ye see the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, and the priests the Levites bearing it, then ye shall remove from your place, and go after it..“ (Joshua 3:1-3)

As they come to the Jordan river the ark of God goes first before them. This ark is a type of Jesus Christ and how we are to follow after him. The ark was made of wood and overlayed with gold. The materials typify the humanity of Jesus (the wood) and his divinity. (the gold). And the priest bearing it up are symbolic of the priesthood of believers and Christ as our head and we bear him before the world.
Notice also that it was “three days”, typifying Jesus resurrection after three days.

"4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore. “

This space between them and the ark, may figure how far away we are from that crossing over and only the Lord can do this for us. We have not gone this way before. This is the Lords doing and mighty to save.

“And Joshua said unto the people, Sanctify yourselves: for to morrow the LORD will do wonders among you. 6 And Joshua spake unto the priests, saying, Take up the ark of the covenant, and pass over before the people. And they took up the ark of the covenant, and went before the people. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.”

Jesus was manifested to all Israel at His baptism John 1:31) and this was in the Jordan river. This is similar to the language in Joshua, “This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel”.

God also said that as he was with Moses he would be with Joshua. This is telling and it would seem to join the two crossings together as one, one by Moses at the Red Sea nd the other by Joshua at the Jordan river. In Moses crossing we see the death of Christ on the cross without us and our standing still by faith, as Moses said “stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, and the Jordan crossing we see ark going before us and Joshua (a type of Christ going with us into the land to defeat the enemies). Typifying our death and resurrection with Christ and being risen with him to the newness of life and our entrance into the promised land.

8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan.... “

Again, this work is a work of the Lord we must stand still and not by our works, and then by faith we enter into the grace.

“Behold, the ark of the covenant of the Lord of all the earth passeth over before you into Jordan.... ...16 That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam,.. And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan....

The word “Jordan”, means “a decender, the stream of Judgement”, and when we see the ark of the covenant (a type of Christ) and Joshua (another type of Christ) go through the Jordan river on dry land and rise up into the new land, we see a type of Jesus Christ death and resurrection. Jesus decended to death for us and rose again and we die with him and are burried with him and rise again with him into the new life and land of the kingdom of God in our hearts, for the kingdom of God is within us (Luke 17:21). In all this we see a deeper spiritual reality of our dying with Christ and rising with him and the inward work, this baptism is not a outward washing with water, but typifies a purifying of the heart and new life in Christ and death to self, judgement of our sin.

This aspect our our being crucified , burried and risen with him is seen in the twelve stones that are mentioned here, The twelves stones in the midst of the Jordan river signify our dying with Christ and the twelve stones taken up into the new land symbolize our being risen with him.

“... And command ye them, saying, Take you hence out of the midst of Jordan, out of the place where the priests’ feet stood firm, twelve stones, and ye shall carry them over with you, and leave them in the lodging place, where ye shall lodge this night.... And Joshua said unto them, Pass over before the ark of the LORD your God into the midst of Jordan, and take ye up every man of you a stone upon his shoulder, according unto the number of the tribes of the children of Israel: 6 That this may be a sign among you, that when your children ask their fathers in time to come, saying, What mean ye by these stones? 7 Then ye shall answer them, That the waters of Jordan were cut off before the ark of the covenant of the LORD; when it passed over Jordan, the waters of Jordan were cut off: and these stones shall be for a memorial unto the children of Israel for ever.” Joshua 3, and 4

There is a great deal of revelation in this section. Joshua teaches us a typology of Christ with his church in heavenly places “we are raised up with him to sit in heavenly places Ephesians 2:6.
So when Jesus was being baptized in the Jordan river we see him fulfilling this type of the ark and Joshua and the people going in through death and judgement to the old life and into the land to defeat all the enemies with Joshua. When we are baptize into Christ he comes into our hearts and defeats all the enemies also.
But much of this is lost in the understanding s of many today, who only see the water baptism of John and do not see beyond this and the typical meaning in the Jordan river..
So when The apostles water baptised at times, they may have been following Johns water baptism, that being close to them, and since they had done it before Christ died they continued in this also after his resurrection. Even though in the beginning of Acts Jesus said it was a past ministry Acts 1:5. This was to cease, and became like many things in the law that lingered in the new covenant and which they struggled with for many years, here are just a few references, Acts 10: (no Lord etc , Acts 15:1, ? Acts 21, Galatians 1 etc , Colossians , etc etc.
But water baptism belonged to the Old Covenant with John and had its fulfillment under the law. However many have zealously followed John in this despite the true and saving baptism, being an inward work and part of the “one baptism for today
 
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LoveofTruth

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Are you trying to derail the discussion by suggesting it is a “definition” issue?
No, the word baptism does obviously not always mean water baptism. But it seems many want to add water any time they read the word. Even in Matthew 28 it does not say water baptism there. But many assume it does.


We agree, Baptism means “immersion”. The Bible has immersion/baptism for: water, Spirit, fire, the flood and the Jews going through the red sea.
Yes, and Matthew 28 does not add water. Ajso the saving baptism is into Jesus Christ, where we put on Christ. This is not water.
The only baptism or immersion we can do on another is water baptism.
You seem to forget when Peter was preaching the Holy Ghost fell in them that heard the word. Through the teaching and believing the word they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. Others put hands on others and they received the Spirit etc. but we know that God is the one in spirit that gives spiritual immersion into Christ.

And it is by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body , into Jesus Christ. But God chose by men hearing the word and believing to have this done. When they heard the word and were believing they were sealed etc.

Paul also said that he wanted to impart some spiritual gift. But properly we know the gifts are given by the Spirit.

But faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When God works in men to speak and teach the truth it is God that is working and in the hearts of the hearers also.
At least quote it in the order it was given and do not turn it around.

Matt 28: 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
No, the wording is like this not like the quote you used. By the way I only use KJV and won’t dis is that 45 hour talk here as to why. But they are different.

Matthew 28: 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” (King Jane’s Bible)

The spiritual teaching, is God spiritually working in them is how men are immersed in the name. This is done by God through men teaching as God works in them.

Then an other aspect of teaching is added in the next verse.

Read 1 Cor. 2 again
You try to make “teach all nations” to mean baptize them. The Baptizing is one thing (then there is a conjunction separating two actions) and then teaching to obey all things.
I answered this in the last comment
Where does “teach = baptizing” in scripture, since Paul makes a huge distinction 1 Cor. 1: 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
Paul was speaking of water baptism there . The immersion into Christ after men hear the word and have faith is all done by God and He uses men to preach and teach His word.

These deeply spiritual realities are hard to be understood by some.
“You believe” does not carry any weight since it contradicts scripture.

Faith cones by hearing and hearing by the word of God how can they preach except they be sent. God works in every preacher to will and to do.

When a person believes the gospel they are immersed by the Spirit into Christ .planted together with him and raised up with him inwardly. He that believes and is baptised shall be saved. The belief part is the faith part where by faith we “enter into” the grace that saves. The grace is as we are immersed into Jesus Christ. .
We are told to baptize people and we cannot do Spiritual baptisms,
Show where believer in the Gentiles church are told to water baptize today. And I already discussed about imparting spiritual gifts etc .
so what is this other baptism we are to be doing?
The Matthew 28 is different baptism in the name.

I already discussed how Jesus said of the Father that he kept them in the name of the Father. That is a mystery that expounds on this.John 17 shows this he taught the word, they believed and were kept in the name.
 
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bling

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No, the word baptism does obviously not always mean water baptism. But it seems many want to add water any time they read the word. Even in Matthew 28 it does not say water baptism there. But many assume it does.
We do not have John the Water Baptist, but know he was doing water baptizing, so it is not unique to believe other times baptism is used it includes using water and the people understood it that way.
Yes, and Matthew 28 does not add water. Ajso the saving baptism is into Jesus Christ, where we put on Christ. This is not water.
Again we agree you do not have to add “water” and use just the word baptism to include by water.
You seem to forget when Peter was preaching the Holy Ghost fell in them that heard the word. Through the teaching and believing the word they were baptized with the Holy Ghost. Others put hands on others and they received the Spirit etc. but we know that God is the one in spirit that gives spiritual immersion into Christ.

And it is by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body , into Jesus Christ. But God chose by men hearing the word and believing to have this done. When they heard the word and were believing they were sealed etc.
I have not forgotten anything about Acts 10, but you stopped halfway read further: Acts 10: Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

You keep saying that the Spirit baptism is the only baptism into Christ, yet Peter here is having them water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, which was not part of the OT Jewish rituals, since Christ had not gone to the cross.
Paul also said that he wanted to impart some spiritual gift. But properly we know the gifts are given by the Spirit.
No, the laying on of the Apostles’ Hands could provide the receiving of a miraculous portion of the Holy Spirit.
But faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. When God works in men to speak and teach the truth it is God that is working and in the hearts of the hearers also.
There are four different types of hearts (soils) receiving the seed (gospel message).
No, the wording is like this not like the quote you used. By the way I only use KJV and won’t dis is that 45 hour talk here as to why. But they are different.

Matthew 28: 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” (King Jane’s Bible)

The spiritual teaching, is God spiritually working in them is how men are immersed in the name. This is done by God through men teaching as God works in them.

Then an other aspect of teaching is added in the next verse.

Read 1 Cor. 2 again

I answered this in the last comment

Paul was speaking of water baptism there . The immersion into Christ after men hear the word and have faith is all done by God and He uses men to preach and teach His word.

These deeply spiritual realities are hard to be understood by some.
The reality is, Paul did not say: “I have come to baptize people with the gospel message and not baptize them with water.”

He did baptize others which he is not saying was wrong in itself, but glade he did not baptize more for a specific reason, “so no one can say that you were baptized in my name.”
Faith cones by hearing and hearing by the word of God how can they preach except they be sent. God works in every preacher to will and to do.

When a person believes the gospel they are immersed by the Spirit into Christ .planted together with him and raised up with him inwardly. He that believes and is baptised shall be saved. The belief part is the faith part where by faith we “enter into” the grace that saves. The grace is as we are immersed into Jesus Christ. .
You might want to do study on conjunctions used in the Greek, because the separate two different ideas and are not used to include one idea in another. So, you have believing and baptizing which are two very different actions done by separate people.
Show where believer in the Gentiles church are told to water baptize today. And I already discussed about imparting spiritual gifts etc .
The Samaritans are gentiles, because they are not Jews Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Remember also this same Phillip will go on to water baptize the Eunuch.
 
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Dan Perez

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And anyone that checks the 1 PETER 3:21 will see the word BAPTISM. IS really the GREEK WORD BAPTISMA

and is used. 22 times from. Matthew through 1 Peter 3:21. !!

And there is :

BAPTISMO

BAPTISMA

BAPTO

SPRINKING

BAPTIZED

BAPTISM

And in 1 COR 10:2 And all were BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES in. the CLOUD. and in the SEA. !!

So how were those that FOLLOWED Moses BAPTIZED into MOSES and BAPTIZED. into the CLOUD and in. the SEA ??

dan p
And you all have not explained ACTS 1:5 and you have not explained why JESUS was WATER BAPTIZIED

BY John. and if you say to FULFIL ALL RIGHESNESS YOU need a BETTER ANSWER. THAN THAT !!

dan p
 
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