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Will MAGA condemn Texan gerrymandering and sign a petition for all States and Feds to have independent Commissions handling redistributions?

The Barbarian

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So Gerrymandering is OK now, or at least OK if Democrats do it? Or is it still wrong?
Of course it's wrong. No matter who does it. What outraged republicans was not that it was wrong, but that democrats negated their efforts to rig elections by doing the same things. So long as the most corrupt SCOTUS in history allows this kind of behavior, it's going to continue.

As someone else suggested, it's like criticizing one for punching someone who is hitting him. I get the concept; if there's no benefit to rigging the vote, one takes away the incentive to do it.

It would be better if the SCOTUS got some backbone and shut the whole crooked process down.
 
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Say it aint so

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Your claim was:

"This could have all be prevented, or at least this rash round of gerrymandering, if the conservative wing of SCOTUS had kept intact the part of the civil rights act that protected against race based gerrymandering."

Shelby County v. Holder wasn't the Civil Rights Act, but the Voting Rights Act. That might have just been a slip, though. The big problem, though, is that it had nothing to do with racial gerrymandering. It concerned the preclearance requirement for changes in laws or rules about voting that applied to some states, a different topic entirely.
You're right. I mean to say the Voters Rights Act that redressed racial discrimination.

I believe it was one federal court (rather than courts) that ruled it was racial gerrymandering... and I think they were wrong to do so. It was partisan gerrymandering, and very obvious partisan gerrymandering at that. This was the case for both Texas and California (I think a marginally stronger case can be made for California being racial gerrymandering, but it's a very weak argument against both states, and I think it was correct to uphold both as a legal matter).

In any event, as noted, they didn't strike down anything that protected against racial gerrymandering to begin with.
I disagree. The lower court seen it for what it was.

Well, first, this wasn't a formal decision by the Supreme Court, but just a temporary one while the actual case plays out. And the so-called "Kavanaugh stop" was not an opinion by the majority, but just a concurring by one justice (Kavanaugh, hence the name). In any event, Kavanaugh issued another concurring opinion several months later that backtracked (or clarified if one wants to be charitable) his prior opinion.
He "kind of" backtracked in a footnote in a different case. But just the idea he initially thought it was a-OK is another marker of how horrible Kavanaugh, who is part of the court, being terrible. And low and behold, that is exactly what is transpiring right now. Now that you mention "temporary". The use, abuse, of the shadow docket by this court to expand presidential power is also horrible. As noted by lower court judges as it renders them in to limbo. Horrible again.

As noted above, Shelby County v. Holder wasn't about racial gerrymandering. Rather, the situation was that (to try to curb disenfranchisement of minority voters) the government in 1965, as part of the Voting Rights Act, required certain states or local areas to get federal permission before changing any laws about voting; the ones affected were those that had low voter turnout at the time. This was going to expire after 5 years, but Congress renewed it repeatedly, never changing the areas affected, which were still chosen based on the circumstances of 1965. The last reauthorization was in 2006 where it was renewed for 25 years, again applying to the specific states and locales due to the way things were in 1975. The SCOTUS ruled that treated the states disproportionately like this based on circumstances from nearly fifty years ago was unconstitutional.

I think the case is actually a close call with some good points on both sides. It does seem awfully weird that select states get put under onerous extra requirements based on circumstances from nearly half a century ago--Congress certainly could have at any point changed the formula for determining which states would be affected based on the actual present, but didn't. Remember, the situation is that because of how things were 48 years ago, one state can pass a voting law with no issues but another state could try to pass an identical law and get it denied. On the other hand, I have some real questions about its reliance on the Equal Protection Clause, and some of the factual data the majority opinion used has been argued to be erroneous. So it's a tough one for me. But even if it's wrong, I definitely don't think it's egregiously wrong.

I don't agree with everything the current Court has done but I think the good greatly outweighs the bad.
Again, on it's face it wasn't about racial gerrymandering, it's just that Texas used it to racial gerrymander. You can think they are great. A lot of people do. I don't, and I gave pretty much an itemized list as why I do. Frankly I was dead opposed to any expansion of the court, but after some of their rulings, I am rethinking that. To me they are that bad.
 
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JSRG

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Of course it's wrong. No matter who does it. What outraged republicans was not that it was wrong, but that democrats negated their efforts to rig elections by doing the same things. So long as the most corrupt SCOTUS in history allows this kind of behavior, it's going to continue.

As someone else suggested, it's like criticizing one for punching someone who is hitting him. I get the concept; if there's no benefit to rigging the vote, one takes away the incentive to do it.

It would be better if the SCOTUS got some backbone and shut the whole crooked process down.
As I have expressed before, I think the SCOTUS should allow for this sort of behavior, because it's constitutional. It's not a lack of backbone; it's the fact that there's simply really not anything in the Constitution that actually prohibits partisan gerrymandering, as much as I wish there was.

I want to try to make my position clear. I don't like partisan gerrymandering. It's bad. I want it gone and would be in complete support for a law or constitutional amendment or law to to end the practice. Congress indeed has the power to do so, at least for House of Representatives elections (to end gerrymandering in state legislatures, one would require a constitutional amendment).

Nevertheless, I also am forced to recognize that it's an issue to be solved by the legislature, not the courts, simply on the fact it's constitutional (this is exactly why people's ire should be on the legislatures on this matter rather than the courts). It is entirely possible for something to be both stupid and constitutional, or bad and constitutional, or evil and constitutional (slavery in the United States was a far greater evil than gerrymandering ever was, and it was constitutional for about 80 years). Thus despite my distaste of the practice of gerrymandering, I think they were absolutely correct in affirming partisan gerrymandering as constitutional. As for this specific case, this was indeed partisan gerrymandering rather than a racial gerrymander (in both states), despite some weak attempts by some to argue otherwise--they're indeed some of the most blatant partisan gerrymanders I've seen. Thus I believe SCOTUS was correct to allow both Texas and California to do this, and other states.

I will, however, agree that the arguments of trying to claim there's inconsistency between Democrats criticizing gerrymandering and engaging in it doesn't make that much sense, because someone really has to do it to remain competitive in politics if the other side is doing it, especially when to the extreme Texas is doing so. It is entirely possible to dislike the rules and try to change them but, as long as they're around, still use them (it's like if a sports player thinks something should be banned from competition--it isn't consistent to still use whatever it is, because it's still in the game and you just give yourself a major disadvantage).

Though as long as I'm staking out my position, I would also add that I'm not very fond of the "California put it up to the voters, but Texas didn't!" talking point, at least how it is frequently expressed. The problem is that the Californian government likely did not do this out of any kind of moral obligation to put it before the voters, but because of the legal obligation. Unless there's actual evidence that California would have done it via referendum even if it wasn't required to do so, then there isn't too much moral high ground to be taken there.
 
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Pommer

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As I have expressed before, I think the SCOTUS should allow for this sort of behavior, because it's constitutional. It's not a lack of backbone; it's the fact that there's simply really not anything in the Constitution that actually prohibits partisan gerrymandering, as much as I wish there was.

I want to try to make my position clear. I don't like partisan gerrymandering. It's bad. I want it gone and would be in complete support for a law or constitutional amendment or law to to end the practice. Congress indeed has the power to do so, at least for House of Representatives elections (to end gerrymandering in state legislatures, one would require a constitutional amendment).

Nevertheless, I also am forced to recognize that it's an issue to be solved by the legislature, not the courts, simply on the fact it's constitutional (this is exactly why people's ire should be on the legislatures on this matter rather than the courts). It is entirely possible for something to be both stupid and constitutional, or bad and constitutional, or evil and constitutional (slavery in the United States was a far greater evil than gerrymandering ever was, and it was constitutional for about 80 years). Thus despite my distaste of the practice of gerrymandering, I think they were absolutely correct in affirming partisan gerrymandering as constitutional. As for this specific case, this was indeed partisan gerrymandering rather than a racial gerrymander (in both states), despite some weak attempts by some to argue otherwise--they're indeed some of the most blatant partisan gerrymanders I've seen. Thus I believe SCOTUS was correct to allow both Texas and California to do this, and other states.

I will, however, agree that the arguments of trying to claim there's inconsistency between Democrats criticizing gerrymandering and engaging in it doesn't make that much sense, because someone really has to do it to remain competitive in politics if the other side is doing it, especially when to the extreme Texas is doing so. It is entirely possible to dislike the rules and try to change them but, as long as they're around, still use them (it's like if a sports player thinks something should be banned from competition--it isn't consistent to still use whatever it is, because it's still in the game and you just give yourself a major disadvantage).

Though as long as I'm staking out my position, I would also add that I'm not very fond of the "California put it up to the voters, but Texas didn't!" talking point, at least how it is frequently expressed. The problem is that the Californian government likely did not do this out of any kind of moral obligation to put it before the voters, but because of the legal obligation. Unless there's actual evidence that California would have done it via referendum even if it wasn't required to do so, then there isn't too much moral high ground to be taken there.
Politics that disadvantages “the other side” doesn’t usually last long.
So, there’s that.
 
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