• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

National Catholic Reporter: Catholics must decide if they serve Donald Trump or the Gospel - No one can serve two masters

Status
Not open for further replies.

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
In other words, “some people might trust the NCR more because they’re out-of-step with the Vatican”.

The Roman Catholic Church is a fine and honorable Institution; AFAIK except for matters delivered ex cathedra, the RCC doesn't lay claim to being the arbiter of justice, nor suggest that it alone can discern what “truth” needs to be printed.
It’s an independent source that isn’t official affiliated with The Church.

If someone isn’t Catholic, it doesn’t pertain to them, regardless.
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Being heretical is a serious charge that involves actual adjudication of not just material heresy, but formal heresy. It's not a term that should be thrown about casually. Those who usually do so are often involved more in bullying that discerning truth.
Essentially, the magazine wasn’t faithful to Church teaching and supported unorthodox ideas.

It wasn’t about formally charging anyone with heresy.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Barbarian
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
They identify as *independent* media. An independent source can't be in "union" with the authorities. That would make no sense.
The sources weren’t faithful to Church teaching which she repeatedly mentioned.

Clear?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
Contact the Church. Let them know that false witness is okay.
There is no bullying or false witness. Rather, some people who claimed to be Catholic, and don’t follow official Church teaching.

Sigh
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
As I said before. Look it up. The problem is how they identify themselves. Disingenuous to say the least.
Thank you. You’re 100% right!
 
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
They were told to change their name/masthead by someone that they didn’t think had the authority to do.
Them’s the breaks.
…because they taught against Church teaching, and didn’t want the faithful lead astray…,that’s why they were told to stop using the name “Catholic” in their title. That’s all.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

RileyG

Veteran
Christian Forums Staff
Red Team - Moderator
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Feb 10, 2013
40,577
22,387
30
Nebraska
✟957,231.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
You are arguing with yourself and making yourself out to be a victim despite the fact that nobody said anything negative to you… You are on this entire journey, and I’m loving that for you, but it has nothing to do with any of us.
She didn’t. She’s only defending her faith on a thread that has comments on her faith that is being constantly attacked from people that are (mostly) non-Christian.

Also, if someone is not a Christian (or particularly a Catholic in this case) then no! they are NOT entitled to an opinion, regardless. It doesn’t pertain to them.

The bishops were talking to the faithful only, and they had a valid reason.

And many faithful and clergy have serious problems with Donald Trump, regardless.

Period.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Michie
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
24,035
14,673
Earth
✟282,276.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Look it up.
We’re in total agreement, here.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Deflecting does not help. It’s nice to see you all being so interested in matters of faith and practice however. The whole thread has turned into a discussion on it simply because I said it was not a reliable source and you liked the screed presented in the op-ed. But I’ve seen it here before.
We disagree, on a debate board!?

You say it’s not a reliable source…great, thanks for your input.

But it’s an op-ed piece, I’m pretty sure the editors are telling us the truth as they see it, (which is what an editorial is).
If you disagree with Mr Grosso’s opinion, I’d like to know that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
24,035
14,673
Earth
✟282,276.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
…because they taught against Church teaching, and didn’t want the faithful lead astray…,that’s why they were told to stop using the name “Catholic” in their title. That’s all.
But they (the NCR) didn’t, and it was being used as evidence that the source of the editorial was unreliable.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
187,835
68,870
Woods
✟6,341,840.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There is no bullying or false witness. Rather, some people who claimed to be Catholic, and don’t follow official Church teaching.

Sigh
It is a false witness to claim Catholic and represent as such while pushing out a false narrative. NCR has done it on the regular. Thats why the Church asked they remove ‘Catholic’ from the publication.
 
Upvote 0

Tropical Wilds

Queen of Cups
Oct 2, 2009
7,620
5,766
New England
✟291,874.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
She didn’t. She’s only defending her faith on a thread that has comments on her faith that is being constantly attacked from people that are (mostly) non-Christian.

Also, if someone is not a Christian (or particularly a Catholic in this case) then no! they are NOT entitled to an opinion, regardless. It doesn’t pertain to them.

The bishops were talking to the faithful only, and they had a valid reason.

And many faithful and clergy have serious problems with Donald Trump, regardless.

Period.
Nobody is attacking her or her faith. They’re pointing out what they’ve seen and experienced with Catholicism, and how her behavior and comments reinforce what we’ve been saying. She doesn’t like it, but we need to stop acting like being told something you don’t like is an attack.

Saying that non-Christians and non-Catholics aren’t entitled to have an opinion is pretty rich given that they are on the receiving end of the behaviors we are talking about. And some of us were Catholics or Christians at one point, so we have first hand experience. Is a CF moderator officially telling us to shut up and not have any thoughts on religions that aren’t our own? And now we can expect that Christians will stop commenting on faiths that aren’t their own because it doesn’t pertain to them?

At the end of the day, she’s the one lashing out and name calling, but the moderator who weighs in has nothing but defense for her and admonishments for us because we are the “wrong faith.” So, in the caste system that exists that I spoke about, we see where we rank, as I said we did.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Call Me Al
Mar 11, 2017
24,606
18,005
56
USA
✟465,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
As I said before. Look it up. The problem is how they identify themselves. Disingenuous to say the least.

They write about Catholic issues for a Catholic audience. What should they call themselves, the "not-about-Protestants Weekly".
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Call Me Al
Mar 11, 2017
24,606
18,005
56
USA
✟465,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The sources weren’t faithful to Church teaching which she repeatedly mentioned.
Do they claim to speak for the church? Do they put "endorsed by the Pope" in their masthead?
I know what the "problem" is, I just think it is nuts.
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
187,835
68,870
Woods
✟6,341,840.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
They write about Catholic issues for a Catholic audience. What should they call themselves, the "not-about-Protestants Weekly".
They write about Catholic issues to undermine Catholic teaching which has been proven over and over again. They use the word Catholic to do so. That’s why they were asked not to use the title. As it gives a false impression of what the Church teaches and believes. But I have said this throughout the thread repeatedly. It would be like a divorced person deciding to keep their ex-spouse’s name to sow untruths and confusion while acting as someone qualified to speak for the family after the family has asked them to cease from doing so. But I’ve made myself clear. If people want to be obtuse then there is nothing more I can do about it.
 
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Call Me Al
Mar 11, 2017
24,606
18,005
56
USA
✟465,531.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
They write about Catholic issues to undermine Catholic teaching which has been proven over and over again.
Uhuh, sure. :rolleyes:
They use the word Catholic to do so. That’s why they were asked not to use the title. As it gives a false impression of what the Church teaches and believes.
If it is so obviously against the teachings of your church, why would it matter at all what word is in the title.
But I have said this throughout the thread repeatedly. It would be like a divorced person deciding to keep their ex-spouse’s name to sow untruths and confusion while acting as someone qualified to speak for the family after the family has asked them to cease from doing so. But I’ve made myself clear. If people want to be obtuse then there is nothing more I can do about it.
I know. You think the church is special and so do they. I don't. It's just a church.
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
187,835
68,870
Woods
✟6,341,840.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Uhuh, sure. :rolleyes:

If it is so obviously against the teachings of your church, why would it matter at all what word is in the title.

I know. You think the church is special and so do they. I don't. It's just a church.
I posted here because the op in no way reflects Church teaching. Neither does the magazine it was published in. Not so sure why it should concern you because you obviously do not care. I do. I do not want people thinking that’s a legitimate source representing what the Church teaches and believes. Pretty simple.

As long as someone affirms what the Church teaches, rejects what the Church opposes, and allows for disagreement on matters the Church has no teaching on, no problem. But in this case it was just a screed telling people they no longer follow Jesus because of their politics. But I do have a problem with Catholics who ignore what is obligatory, celebrate what is evil, and dogmatize what can be a matter of reasonable disagreement. Like this publication often does. The Church has issues with it and asked they remove Catholic from their title for that reason. The only reason it’s being defended here even by those like you that claim no faith is because you liked the message. Some do not care about legitimate sources as long as it agrees with their politics. That’s the bottom line. But the OP is just a partisan rag politically and disingenuously represents themselves as Catholic while undermining what the Church teaches and believes. It’s yellow journalism and more.

Paul even makes this point at the end of his letter to the Romans when he says,“Take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded”(16:19-21). He also encouraged Timothy to“convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings”(2 Tim. 4:2-3).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BPPLEE
Upvote 0

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
154,397
20,394
USA
✟2,165,983.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed for review.

First the thread was derailed to be about the National Catholic Register when the OP was in the National Catholic Reporter, two different publications, and now there is bickering
.


 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Pommer
Upvote 0

Aldebaran

NCC-1701-A
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Site Supporter
Oct 17, 2009
44,215
13,868
Wisconsin, United States of America
✟944,646.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
MOD HAT--Thread permanently closed.jpg
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.