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Billie Eilish faces calls to return her $3m mansion to native tribe or house migrants after Grammys declaration that 'No one is illegal on stolen land

RileyG

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What about native tribes that were conquered by other native tribes?

For ex.

Indeed. The tribes were their own nation with their own culture, history, language, and religion. Native Americans aren’t a monolith.
 
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iarwain

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But then anyone found on stolen land is illegally there therefore they are illegals.
If we stole the land from the Native Americans, doesn't it stand to reason that the illegal aliens that flooded through the border were trying to steal the land from us?
 
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RileyG

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If we stole the land from the Native Americans, doesn't it stand to reason that the illegal aliens that flooded through the border were trying to steal the land from us?
Well…some say America is the “great melting pot” or more accurately “a tossed salad.”

Our nation is a nation of immigrants and those of immigrant descent, with the exception of Native American tribes.
 
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Aldebaran

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If it’s on stolen land as she claims then the house is not legally hers. ;)
Maybe she'll get arrested for knowingly buying and receiving stolen property.
 
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RileyG

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Maybe she'll get arrested for knowingly buying and receiving stolen property.
Then everyone would be arrested then using that logic ;)
 
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BPPLEE

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Maybe she'll get arrested for knowingly buying and receiving stolen property.
Reminds me of Martin Sheen, advocating for the homeless until one showed up at his house and he called the police
 
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RileyG

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Reminds me of Martin Sheen, advocating for the homeless until one showed up at his house and he called the police
Interesting. I know he is devoutly religious and proudly pro-life.

No one is perfect. We all fall short from time to time. Eh? Thank God is forgiving and merciful!
 
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Michie

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AI:

The phrase "no one is illegal on stolen land" is a widely recognized socio-political slogan used by activists to challenge the moral and legal foundations of current immigration laws. It argues that because much of the land in the United States and other colonized nations was originally taken from Indigenous peoples through violence, treaties, and displacement, the concept of an "illegal immigrant" on that same land is a contradiction.

Core Ideas and Perspectives
The slogan connects two major social justice issues: Indigenous land rights and immigrant rights.
  • Challenging Legal Authority: Proponents argue that the current borders are "colonial constructs" and that the modern state, having an illegitimate historical claim to the land, lacks the moral authority to criminalize people for crossing those borders.
  • Historical Context: The phrase is intended to highlight the history of colonization, forced removal (such as the Trail of Tears), and broken treaties that dispossessed Native American nations of their ancestral territories.
  • Human Dignity: It emphasizes human dignity and compassion, suggesting people should be seen as humans before being categorized by legal status or paperwork.

Counterarguments
The slogan is also a subject of significant debate and criticism, particularly regarding its legal and practical implications.
  • Rule of Law and Sovereignty: Critics argue that all modern nations, including those from which immigrants may be coming, exist as a result of historical conflicts and treaties. They contend that acknowledging history does not invalidate a nation's right to establish and enforce its current laws, borders, and sovereignty.
  • Laws vs. Morality: Opponents point out that while the history of land acquisition may be complex, current laws define what is legal and illegal entry into a country.
  • Hypocrisy and Practicality: Some critics note a perceived hypocrisy when public figures who use the phrase live in private, secure homes, and suggest that applying the slogan's logic consistently would lead to societal chaos and the elimination of all property rights and national boundaries.
Ultimately, the statement is a powerful rhetorical tool in ongoing debates about immigration policy, historical justice, and the definition of national belonging.
 
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Tuur

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If it’s on stolen land as she claims then the house is not legally hers. ;)
Well, now, not necessarily. About forty years ago I remember a house going up on a lot that was then just outside a city limit. They had the walls up and were at the point of starting the ceiling joists and rafters when barrier tape went up around the property and the house. Turned out that someone was building a house on property that did not belong to them. The owner passed by, saw what was going on, and put a stop to it.

What was built to that point wasn't cleared away. It rotted down until now it's just a foundation slab. Either the land owner didn't care if it rotted down, or let it rot down as a statement, or couldn't destroy it because the house going up didn't belong to him. In theory, if it had been feasible and cost effective, the squatter could have moved the house in progress to another site if the land owner allowed him access to the property to do so.
 
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Tuur

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AI:

The phrase "no one is illegal on stolen land" is a widely recognized socio-political slogan used by activists to challenge the moral and legal foundations of current immigration laws. It argues that because much of the land in the United States and other colonized nations was originally taken from Indigenous peoples through violence, treaties, and displacement, the concept of an "illegal immigrant" on that same land is a contradiction.

Core Ideas and Perspectives
The slogan connects two major social justice issues: Indigenous land rights and immigrant rights.
  • Challenging Legal Authority: Proponents argue that the current borders are "colonial constructs" and that the modern state, having an illegitimate historical claim to the land, lacks the moral authority to criminalize people for crossing those borders.
  • Historical Context: The phrase is intended to highlight the history of colonization, forced removal (such as the Trail of Tears), and broken treaties that dispossessed Native American nations of their ancestral territories.
  • Human Dignity: It emphasizes human dignity and compassion, suggesting people should be seen as humans before being categorized by legal status or paperwork.

Counterarguments
The slogan is also a subject of significant debate and criticism, particularly regarding its legal and practical implications.
  • Rule of Law and Sovereignty: Critics argue that all modern nations, including those from which immigrants may be coming, exist as a result of historical conflicts and treaties. They contend that acknowledging history does not invalidate a nation's right to establish and enforce its current laws, borders, and sovereignty.
  • Laws vs. Morality: Opponents point out that while the history of land acquisition may be complex, current laws define what is legal and illegal entry into a country.
  • Hypocrisy and Practicality: Some critics note a perceived hypocrisy when public figures who use the phrase live in private, secure homes, and suggest that applying the slogan's logic consistently would lead to societal chaos and the elimination of all property rights and national boundaries.
Ultimately, the statement is a powerful rhetorical tool in ongoing debates about immigration policy, historical justice, and the definition of national belonging.
The amusing thing to me and my family is we could say "Get off my lawn, paleface." That overlooks the change in territories among the indigenous peoples and their goings on when the Europeans arrived. Hernando de Soto came upon a culture recovering from collapse and encountered what could be called city states. IIRC, the town of Tama was a vassal of the town of Ocute, and the chief of Tama took one look at de Soto's army and tried to cut a deal to overthrow Ocute. The Creek migration story solidly puts them in Northern Mexico during an eruption of a volcano, and they ended up in what's now the southeastern US, absorbing tribes along the way, like the Hitchiti. Then there was a tribe that lived on the Oconee River that may have migrated to present day Florida and become part of the Seminoles. Certainly part of the Upper Creeks did. So pointing out that I might have indigenous ancestry doesn't mean those ancestors were indigenous to where I'm sitting at the moment. Well, at least not since people have been writing down the history.
 
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Hentenza

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Well, now, not necessarily. About forty years ago I remember a house going up on a lot that was then just outside a city limit. They had the walls up and were at the point of starting the ceiling joists and rafters when barrier tape went up around the property and the house. Turned out that someone was building a house on property that did not belong to them. The owner passed by, saw what was going on, and put a stop to it.

What was built to that point wasn't cleared away. It rotted down until now it's just a foundation slab. Either the land owner didn't care if it rotted down, or let it rot down as a statement, or couldn't destroy it because the house going up didn't belong to him. In theory, if it had been feasible and cost effective, the squatter could have moved the house in progress to another site if the land owner allowed him access to the property to do so.
Yes I’ve seen that happened not too far from me. The owner took the contractor to court, won, and the contractor had to remove the structure including the foundation and plant the trees that they had removed.
 
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Michie

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