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Is Scripture still inerrant according to theistic evolution?

2PhiloVoid

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There is a problematic premise buried in that idea, namely, that a people's identity is not real or operative until it is textually consolidated in final literary form. I think the exile’s role in textual formation was historically preservative, not ontologically constitutive. Long before the exile, the prophets were repeatedly appealing to a covenant identity (e.g., "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt"). The exile did not create Israel; it threatened Israel's historical continuity.

To be candid, it represents a subtle family resemblance to Kenneth Copeland’s crass notion that human words participate in creative power, instead of serving as instruments through which God addresses, preserves, and judges an already constituted covenant people.

While I agree with what you're saying, I think Kenneth Copeland and the rest of the 'Rhema-Rain- crowd have misconstrued the nature of a rhema speech-act........ but that tangent is a different thread, I think. ^_^
 
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BPPLEE

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The "literal" reading is imposing on the text something that's actually foreign to the text itself.
I have been leaning toward Genesis 1-11 not being literal butthat creates a problem in Exodus
10 But the seventh day isthe sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that iswithin thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
 
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Job 33:6

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I have been leaning toward Genesis 1-11 not being literal butthat creates a problem in Exodus
10 But the seventh day isthe sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that iswithin thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Being literal does not require that the text be scientifically concordant. For example, many people interpret the 7 days as being about a literal 7-day temple inauguration. Which isn't about something like the age of the earth.
 
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BPPLEE

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Being literal does not require that the text be scientifically concordant. For example, many people interpret the 7 days as being about a literal 7-day temple inauguration. Which isn't about something like the age of the earth.
Then there is Jesus saying the end times would be like the days of Noah and Paul making references to Adam and Eve
 
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Job 33:6

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Then there is Jesus saying the end times would be like the days of Noah and Paul making references to Adam and Eve
Well hold on a second, the days of Noah aren't even in Genesis chapter 1. So that wouldn't even relate to something like the age of the earth anyway.

But, if the 7 days are to be a literal 7-day temple inauguration that has nothing to do with the age of the earth, then it wouldn't matter if the story of Noah's ark were literal anyway.
 
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The Barbarian

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God created the universe, so the bible is more right than the evolutionist.
People who accept evolution also accept that God created the universe. The difference is that "evolutionists" also accept the way He did it.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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I just don't think evolution and non-literal understanding of the text contradict a high view of Scriptures
There can be no contradiction. Both the Bible and science talk about the same universe or creation.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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acceptance of evolution does not contradict Biblical inerrancy.
Evolution confirms that the Bible is true. The very first word: "Beginning" science can confirm there was a beginning. It is the second word, God. In the beginning was God and God was the beginning. Science has to have something to observe so the beginning was when we had something to observe. In Science this is the planck unit or moment in time. In the Bible God is before time and everything comes from God. The Bible says "in the beginning God" NOT "God in the beginning". Then we have Creation. The rest of the Bible and all of science explains those three word and it all comes down to the word Beginning because we still have to define that word.
 
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Fervent

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People who accept evolution also accept that God created the universe. The difference is that "evolutionists" also accept the way He did it.
I've been thinking about this...and while I agree with the sentiment, I wonder if phrasing it as a negative might be better.

People who accept both evolution and God don't restrict the ways that God could have done it.

This may appear pedantic, but I think it's an important distinction because it allows the inclusion of people like myself who aren't invested in either explanation but sees merit in both.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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People who accept both evolution and God don't restrict the ways that God could have done it.
Science only accepts things that can be observed, measured, and repeated.
and It only deals with cause‑and‑effect inside the universe.
 
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Job 33:6

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Evolution confirms that the Bible is true. The very first word: "Beginning" science can confirm there was a beginning. It is the second word, God. In the beginning was God and God was the beginning. Science has to have something to observe so the beginning was when we had something to observe. In Science this is the planck unit or moment in time. In the Bible God is before time and everything comes from God. The Bible says "in the beginning God" NOT "God in the beginning". Then we have Creation. The rest of the Bible and all of science explains those three word and it all comes down to the word Beginning because we still have to define that word.
I tend to prefer dependent clause translations. Such as the NRSV or NRSVue, When God began to create, that doesn't actually say anything about material origins.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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I tend to prefer dependent clause translations. Such as the NRSV or NRSVue, When God began to create, that doesn't actually say anything about material origins.
Formless and void in verse two is the material origin. When you add the word “when,” it shows that creation itself was “formless and void.” Day One is the origin, because you cannot make a copy of a copy of a copy without an original. Everything comes from that original. We call it the pattern or the template.
 
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Job 33:6

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Formless and void in verse two is the material origin. When you add the word “when,” it shows that creation itself was “formless and void.” Day One is the origin, because you cannot make a copy of a copy of a copy without an original. Everything comes from that original. We call it the pattern or the template.
Well, that's not material origin. My pizza dough is formless and empty of toppings. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't materially exist. Lots of things are formless. That's an adjective that describes things that already exist. Same with empty. I have an empty glass on my table. Just because something is empty, that doesn't mean that it doesn't materially exist. My stomach is empty, but I can assure you that I indeed do have a stomach that exists in my body.

So in Genesis, when the earth is formless and empty of animals and birds and fish etc. It's not saying that the Earth isn't there, the Earth is there, it's just lacking things.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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My pizza dough is formless and empty of toppings.
They both start out as a small seed. The universe is self‑contained. The pizza needs to draw elements from the soil. Adam came from the dust. The universe comes from God. We are an observer. We do not know what exists beyond our ability to observe. The universe begins as energy and then becomes physical (E = mc²). The double‑slit experiment shows you can observe one kind of information or the other, but not both at the same time. This is why people have debates: they see the same thing from different perspectives, just as you are showing me yours.

We are a product of Creation because God made Adam from the dust that Cosmos hosts Neil Degrasse & Carl Sagan calls star stuff.

For your pizza, the open‑box moment matters. What people see shapes what they expect, and what they expect shapes what they taste. Observation is part of the experience, and order is part of that observation.
 
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Job 33:6

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They both start out as a small seed. The universe is self‑contained. The pizza needs to draw elements from the soil. Adam came from the dust. The universe comes from God. We are an observer. We do not know what exists beyond our ability to observe. The universe begins as energy and then becomes physical (E = mc²). The double‑slit experiment shows you can observe one kind of information or the other, but not both at the same time. This is why people have debates: they see the same thing from different perspectives, just as you are showing me yours.
The text doesn't say anything about starting from a seed. It just says that the earth was formless and empty. Just as pizza dough is by analogy. Materially I agree that my dough did begin as a seed, but that's not what the text says so we can't simply assume that the be what the story is talking about.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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The text doesn't say anything about starting from a seed.
Matthew 13:31–32 (KJV) Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed—smallest of seeds, but when it grows, it becomes a tree where birds rest. We know a tree is a whole eco system and there is nothing greater than the cedars of lebanon that Solomon used to build the temple.

Ezekiel 31:8 (KJV).

“The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.”

This is the passage where the cedar is described as greater, more beautiful, and more magnificent than any tree in Eden.
 
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Yarddog

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So, I have recently become convinced of theistic evolution and see Genesis as mytho-history.

Something I am still wrestling with is the extent of the Bible's infallibility.

I think the Bible is true in everything it teaches, and contains no errors (aside from perhaps scribal errors) but that doesn't mean we ought to impose our modern 21st Century assumptions onto the text. The Scriptures, are first, and foremost, a theological text. I do accept most of the accounts in the OT as having actually happened and many figures mentioned as being real people, but I also recognize the Bible also was written under the author's cultural context and uses figurative language and embellishments.

However, I would still say I am affirm the Evangelical view of inerrancy and the verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture. I just don't think evolution and non-literal understanding of the text contradict a high view of Scriptures

I've seen some Christians claim the Bible is infallible only in matters of faith and practice, and tbh, I'm not sure where I land.

What about you?
I believe that scripture is infallible but that doesn't mean literal. Scripture is Spiritually perfect. Many look at what is written but don't see the Spiritual meaning.

As far as evolution goes, God created all life. God molded all life to what we see today. Evolution is impossible without something to cause creation.
 
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Job 33:6

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Matthew 13:31–32 (KJV) Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed—smallest of seeds, but when it grows, it becomes a tree where birds rest. We know a tree is a whole eco system and there is nothing greater than the cedars of lebanon that Solomon used to build the temple.

Ezekiel 31:8 (KJV).

“The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.”

This is the passage where the cedar is described as greater, more beautiful, and more magnificent than any tree in Eden.
Mathew of course isn't talking about creation in Genesis. He's talking about the kingdom of heaven. Jesus doesn't say anything about Genesis here.
 
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Firstlightdawn

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Mathew of course isn't talking about creation in Genesis. He's talking about the kingdom of heaven. Jesus doesn't say anything about Genesis here.
The Kingdom of Heaven is not a new idea—it is the restoration of the original design. God is going to restore this world to His original plan and purpose.
 
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o_mlly

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Fundamentalists dogmatically insist on constant and continuous “verbal inerrancy” in the entire text. The scribes, being more attentive to their own prophetic voice than to historicity, explained the meaning of events near at hand by writing into those events the Truth with which they were Divinely inspired.

While the scribes were principally theologians, I do not believe we can dismiss them as being completely ahistorical. Forgetting that the scribes wrote for a particular people at a particular time, today’s fundamentalists attempt to extract the Truth from the form rather than the substance of the text. The fundamentalist’s error imputes God’s Word into every word the author wrote.

By denying human ambiguity in the texts, the fundamentalist assumes that the wits of man can completely contain and express in words an Idea from the mind of God. Less pedantic interpreters realize that God, seeing all things at once, inspires from on high; men, seeing only a few things here and now, respond from down here. Catholics do not believe in “verbal inerrancy” because we do not believe God was directly and specially involved in the choice of every single word in the text’s original language or in every subsequent interpretation of that language to another.
 
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