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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
White House, DHS push back on claims ICE targeted 5-year-old in Minnesota, say child was 'abandoned'
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Oompa Loompa
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BPPLEE
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This is what I posted
You shouldn’t interfere with law enforcement officers who are making an arrest and you shouldn’t resist arrest
CBP and ICE should be better trained and only use deadly force as a last resort.
Both can be true without contradiction
I can edit posts too
@ViaCrucis said
your First Amendment rights don't matter.
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Oompa Loompa
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And just like that, insurrection against the federal government through physical violence against federal law enforcement officers is now protected under the first amendment. How far we have come since January 6, 2021.
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ViaCrucis
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The American people have a First Amendment right to peaceful assembly. That you want to deny this right exists by presenting the exercising of this right as "interfering" with law enforcement officers demonstrates you disregard for the rights of the people in your willingness to defend this present fascist regime.
I didn't edit your post. I quoted the part that was relevant to what I wanted to respond to.
And I'm not playing games with people who are engaging in bad faith, who I know for a fact are intelligent enough to know what they are doing is wrong and immoral.
I know you aren't dumb. What I simply don't understand is the abject lack and rejection of morality. I don't understand the concept of loyalty to a political party or political ideology to the point of turning off one's conscience and willingly embracing evil. I simply don't get it.
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ViaCrucis
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You know perfectly well that there's a difference between trying to murder members of Congress and the Vice President and peacefully assembly in protest. Stop playing dumb. This level of pretend and trolling isn't amusing, it's not cute. You know darn well the difference, and pretending like these things are like for like is you just pretending to be dumb--and you aren't. You're more intelligent than this, you know better than this.
What I don't understand is the utter willingness to turn off your moral compass and conscience in order to defend the indefensible; to actively and knowingly support obvious evil.
Do you hate "leftists" so much that you are willing to throw away your Christianity just to see innocent people suffer? I'm confident that you've cracked open the Bible more than once. I'm confident that you have heard at least one sermon in a church. I'm confident that you were raised by parents who taught you the difference between right and wrong. So what gives? Why are you like this? What's the psychology of hating people different than you?
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If someone is planning to carry, They are responsible to also not put themselves intentionally where they know they are going to be getting into a confrontation with someone. Gang members do things like that. But law abiding citizens do not do that if they are planning on causing trouble. Rittenhouse was where he was to put out fires that rioters were setting. Rioters then attacked him for undoing their destruction. Rittenhouse wasn't there to attack police in any way.
Contrast that with Pretti, who armed himself in the role of someone being there to directly confront law enforcement. He knew about what happened to Renee Good. I don't know if he figured he would just shoot back at law enforcement if he were in the same situation, but that's certainly not what concealed carry permits are issued for.
A responsible concealed carrier is armed in case of trouble, but avoids it whenever possible. The gun is for when trouble is unavoidable and can't be escaped from. Attending an anti-law enforcement riot was intentional and dumb.
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- Oct 17, 2009
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What kind of gun was Ashli Babbitt carrying when she was murdered? What caliber? How many spare magazines was she carrying for it?
Answer those questions and you'll see the difference between her case and Pretti's case.
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Tropical Wilds
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ViaCrucis
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That's right, play your game of double standards. Ashli Babbit was a martyr, and Kyle Rittenhouse was a hero. But Rene Good and Alex Pretti deserved to die because existing while around ICE is an offense that deserves the death penalty.
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Oompa Loompa
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Oompa Loompa
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Respectfully, I think you may need to take a break from the forums until you are able to control your emotions. I am only going to ask you once not to put my faith and my salvation into question merely because I disagree with you...period. Take this as your first and last warning.
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MotoToTheMax
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Only 1 arrested, for an unrelated assault outside the Michigan Capitol building. They protested, consequence free.
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Oompa Loompa
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Whataboutism. Did any of them resisted a LE with violence? Or was it just the one guy outside?
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MotoToTheMax
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I don't know. Are they holding signs, or guns? My vision is a bit off.
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Oompa Loompa
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They are holding guns. What were they protesting? Were the guns loaded with live ammunition? Were they threatening law enforcement with them? Does Michigan law authorize open carry? Were there any laws in prohibiting the open carry inside the Michigan capital building? Were protest signs barred inside the capital walls according to building rules? I dare you to find the answers before your next attempt at whataboutism. Lastly, I will add that if any of them had been shot or killed, my response would be the same. They played a stupid game and earned a stupid prize.
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BPPLEE
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You're way off. I don't think the shooting of Pretti was justified.
I never said people don't have the right to peacefully assemble or protest.
I said you shouldn't interfere when law enforcement is making an arrest. You shouldn't. You edited that to make it look like I said something I didn't.
That's dishonest.
From the video I watched that's not exactly what happened to Pretti. A woman who was pushed grabbed onto him and he got caught up in what was going on. But he resisted and made things worse. He had already been warned.
The shooting doesn't look to be justified and at the moment this melee started Pretti wasn't doing anything wrong when the woman grabbed onto him.
As I said CBP and ICE need to be better trained and deadly force only used as a last resort.
That said, self righteous people who judge others will one day be judged themselves in the same manner.
I've seen your posts and you may want to keep that in mind
You are attributing things to me that don't apply and making judgments that are flat out wrong.
That's not all I see wrong with your self righteous posts but I'm not here to judge
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essentialsaltes
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5-year-old Liam Conejo Ramos, father board plane for Minneapolis after detention center release
A federal judge on Saturday ordered that the pair be released.They had a pending asylum case but no order of deportation directing that they be removed from the United States, ABC News previously reported.
In the order releasing Liam and his father, Biery said the case "has its genesis in the ill-conceived and incompetently-implemented government pursuit of daily deportation quotas, apparently even if it requires traumatizing children."
But in a statement after the judge's ruling on Saturday, DHS Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin said, "The facts in this case have NOT changed: ICE did NOT target or arrest a child."
They were merely targetting his father who has a pending asylum case and no deportation order against him.
McLaughlin's account differs from what the family's attorney and schools officials said occurred.
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