WHY WATER BAPTISIM HAD TO GO AWAY ??

LoveofTruth said:

Many of Luther’s day

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If Luther had introduced a new doctrine then he would be just as much in error as you are here.

"And lest any one should craftily say that a new interpretation of Paul has been devised by us, this entire matter is supported by the testimonies of the Fathers. For Augustine, in many volumes, defends grace and the righteousness of faith, over against the merits of works. And Ambrose, in his De Vocatione Gentium, and elsewhere, teaches to like effect. For in his De Vocatione Gentium he says as follows: Redemption by the blood of Christ would become of little value, neither would the preeminence of man’s works be superseded by the mercy of God, if justification, which is wrought through grace, were due to the merits going before, so as to be, not the free gift of a donor, but the reward due to the laborer." (Source: Article XX. Of Good Works. )

"This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers. This being the case, they judge harshly who insist that our teachers be regarded as heretics." (Source: Article XXI. Of the Worship of the Saints. )

You are making an appeal to Wycliffe, Luther, and Hus--but you don't know a thing about any of them; you are flailing in a desperate attempt to reject the historic faith of the Christian Church because it contradicts your private opinion about what the Bible means.

I cannot get Loveoftruth to address, Matt.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

This is Jesus giving a command to His disciples after His resurrection. Jesus specifically says: “Baptize them (people in all nations)”. This “baptism” cannot be Spirit baptism, because People even the apostles cannot “Spirit baptize” anyone, since the Spirit does that.

bling said:

I cannot get Loveoftruth to address, Matt.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

This is Jesus giving a command to His disciples after His resurrection. Jesus specifically says: “Baptize them (people in all nations)”. This “baptism” cannot be Spirit baptism, because People even the apostles cannot “Spirit baptize” anyone, since the Spirit does that.

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We are saved through Baptism and continue to be saved::

Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE

ViaCrucis said:

Yes, I am appealing to the historic integrity of the Christian Church.

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Well, what tradition of man is that? There are soo many different views way back on everything.

I appeal to the holy scriptures and to the writers of them,I don’t put man above that which is written. As scripture warns us not to.

It’s interesting that I show scripture and a clear understanding of the struggles in the early church as recorded in scripture and you run far away from that to tradition.

The idea of water baptism for salvation was taught by many church fathers “so called” and they were not correct as I believe ,according to scripture. The gospel (1Cor,.15:1-4,)does not add water baptism or any work of righteousness to get saved. Many have written against the fathers view of this and the later view of infant baptism. There is no need to go deep into those discussions. You can read many in history who have refuted baptismal regeneration. And infant baptism.

But I believe that while many have rightly refuted baptismal regeneration and I infant baptism, I don’t believe they went far enough.

But I would not make a person wanting to be water baptised for some witness or other reason as long as they don’t do it to be saved or add it to the gospel .

ViaCrucis said:

If Luther had introduced a new doctrine then he would be just as much in error as you are here.

"And lest any one should craftily say that a new interpretation of Paul has been devised by us, this entire matter is supported by the testimonies of the Fathers. For Augustine, in many volumes, defends grace and the righteousness of faith, over against the merits of works. And Ambrose, in his De Vocatione Gentium, and elsewhere, teaches to like effect. For in his De Vocatione Gentium he says as follows: Redemption by the blood of Christ would become of little value, neither would the preeminence of man’s works be superseded by the mercy of God, if justification, which is wrought through grace, were due to the merits going before, so as to be, not the free gift of a donor, but the reward due to the laborer." (Source: Article XX. Of Good Works. )

"This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers. This being the case, they judge harshly who insist that our teachers be regarded as heretics." (Source: Article XXI. Of the Worship of the Saints. )

You are making an appeal to Wycliffe, Luther, and Hus--but you don't know a thing about any of them; you are flailing in a desperate attempt to reject the historic faith of the Christian Church because it contradicts your private opinion about what the Bible means.

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Luther did change many things from his time and he was considered a heretic by the Roman Catholics.

bling said:

I cannot get Loveoftruth to address, Matt.28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

This is Jesus giving a command to His disciples after His resurrection. Jesus specifically says: “Baptize them (people in all nations)”. This “baptism” cannot be Spirit baptism, because People even the apostles cannot “Spirit baptize” anyone, since the Spirit does that.

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I hope to address this soon Lord willing. I have addressed this in other places but not in this thread.

A quick note to consider, where is the word “water” in that section? It is not there it is assumed. But water is not mentioned. Also show me anywhere in scripture that formula or words during the act, was used in water baptism.

Valletta said:

We are saved through Baptism and continue to be saved::

Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE

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Loveoftruth is saying that does not refer to water baptism.

LoveofTruth said:

I hope to address this soon Litd willing. I have addressed this in other places but not in this thread.

A quick note to consider, where is the word “water” in that section? It is not there it is assumed. But water is not mentioned. Also show me anywhere in scripture that formula or words during the act, was used in water baptism.

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You can only water baptize someone, since you cannot Spirit baptize people.

bling said:

You can only water baptize someone, since you cannot Spirit baptize people.

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When I talk of “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body”, I believe this is the Holy Spirot who immerses us into Christ. Then when a person has Christ in them he will baptize them with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

There are different baptisms in scripture

As far as being baptized with the Holy Ghost Jesus will do this as we read

Luke 3: 16. John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:”

But we do see believers having other lay hands in them and Jesus can use this as well. Sometimes they were baptized with the Holy Ghost simply while Peter was preaching in Acts 10 he taught and they heard and believed and were filled.

LoveofTruth said:

When I talk of “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body”, I believe this is the Holy Spirot who immerses us into Christ. Then when a person has Christ in them he will baptize them with the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

There are different baptisms in scripture

As far as being baptized with the Holy Ghost Jesus will do this as we read

Luke 3: 16. John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:”

But we do see believers having other lay hands in them and Jesus can use this as well. Sometimes they were baptized with the Holy Ghost simply while Peter was preaching in Acts 10 he taught and they heard and believed and were filled.

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Yes, the Spirit can baptize people, but you are not addressing the fact Christians cannot Spirit baptize people, since the Spirit does that, yet Christ told us to go forth baptizing converts so that would have to be water baptism, since we can do that. Also, the Apostles said they baptized people, so they were continuing water baptism.

bling said:

Yes, the Spirit can baptize people, but you are not addressing the fact Christians cannot Spirit baptize people, since the Spirit does that, yet Christ told us to go forth baptizing converts so that would have to be water baptism, since we can do that. Also, the Apostles said they baptized people, so they were continuing water baptism.

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No, in Matthew it reads,

Matthew 28: 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

The “teaching” immerses (baptized) them in the name or character authority power virtue etc of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.

so teach all nations, then if they believe they are immersed into the name of…

It doesn’t say here to water baptize,”water” is not mentioned.

Jesus manifested the “name” of the Fsther and kept them in his name. This was in part done by teaching the word etc.

Consider this deep truth here,

John 17: 6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me…11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

Notice through the teaching in the Spirit the words and how this is connected to manifesting the name and keeping in the name.

And

Proverbs 18: 10. The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.”

How do you run into a name?

We see something else that may connect to this teaching ,baptizing or immersing them

Acts 10: 34. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all… 44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Deuteronomy 32: 2. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3. Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.”

1 John 5: 13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

LoveofTruth said:

No, in Matthew it reads,

Matthew 28: 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

The “teaching” immerses (baptized) them in the name or character authority power virtue etc of the Father Son and Holy Ghost.

so teach all nations, then if they believe they are immersed into the name of…

It doesn’t say here to water baptize,”water” is not mentioned.

Jesus manifested the “name” of the Fsther and kept them in his name. This was in part done by teaching the word etc.

Consider this deep truth here,

John 17: 6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me…11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

Notice through the teaching in the Spirit the words and how this is connected to manifesting the name and keeping in the name.

And

Proverbs 18: 10. The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.”

How do you run into a name?

We see something else that may connect to this teaching ,baptizing or immersing them

Acts 10: 34. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all… 44. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

Deuteronomy 32: 2. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3. Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.”

1 John 5: 13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

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Water baptism does not have to be said to be a water baptism. Baptism alone can certainly be use and when some Christian baptizes another person that has to be water baptism, since the Christian cannot spiritual baptize another person.

bling said:

Water baptism does not have to be said to be a water baptism. Baptism alone can certainly be use and when some Christian baptizes another person that has to be water baptism, since the Christian cannot spiritual baptize another person.

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When we read,

Go therefeore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...” Matthew 28 ???

Jesus tells the disciples to go and “Teach all nations”. This teaching does something, it baptizes them or immerses them into the name. This is telling, because the word “baptizing” is what the teaching does, it is an action word that is the result of their teaching all nations. It did not say ,go and teach and then water baptize”. To baptize here is the result of the teaching. and the baptizing is “in the Name”. To baptise or immerse into, a name, means to baptise into the chacater, authority, virtue attributes, power life of that name. Into a name is the baptism here. The name (singular) that they were to baptise them into is the name of the Father , the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These three are one God ( 1 John 5:7 KJV) and so to teach all nations of the truth of the gospel, the work and character of God, who has expressed himself or revealed his nature character wirk power etc.and his purposes and truth through the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, is how the world is immersed into, or baptized into the name.

This expression “in the name”, is what the baptism is into. This is not a formula for water baptism, or we would have seen this formula practiced in scripture. Never do we see this as a formula in a water baptism.

The word “teach “ all nations. Is not just teaching with human wisdom and eloquence. God doesn’t call men to teach in their own power and understanding. “if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God that god in all things might be glorified through jess Christ” (1 Peter 4:11). The teaching that s refered to is the anointed teaching in the Spirit and power of the Lord that quickens the heart and immerses the whole world with this knowledge of God. Jesus taught with authority (Mathew 7:29) and Jesus spoke in this power “And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. Jesus gave this ability to the believers and who would teach all nations.

Paul said he did not come to them with words of mans wisdom but in the demonstration of the spirit and power (1Cor.2). He said that when they received the word from them they received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth, the word of God which effectually workeh in those that believe. When Peter was teaching and preaching the word to men, he had similar effect. We read that ““While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. “ Acts 10:44, and then the Holy Ghost was poured out to them that believed (Acts 10:45). Peters teaching or preaching to men they were immersed into the name of God (the character divine influence, power life virtues truth and revelation) of God

The apostles were baptized into Christ and the power to teach all nations. They were able by Gods grace to teach baptizing in the name, We see this in Acts “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.” Acts 4:32. The word they taught and preached was in the Spirit and pricked the hearts of those that heard it as Peter was teaching them of The Son Jesus Christ and his death for their sin baptising them into the name Acts “Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Jesus said that while he was with the disciples he taught and revealed the name of “the Father” to them. Speaking of the Father, he said, “ I have manifested thy name unto the men which though gave me (verse John 17), and “ I have kept them in thy name. How do you keep someone in the name ( or character power life attributes virtue) of that name. This is by the power of the Spirit and through faith. “We are kept by the power of God through faith” . But they were particularly kept in the name or character, power, understanding and life of the Father. Jesus said he finished the work he was sent to do, he glorified the Father, John 17.

The Father was revealed more fully through Jesus teaching. But now the Son has been more fully revealed also and the Holy Ghost more fully. So the teaching that will result in the baptizing all nations into the name, is to reveal the full Godhead of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and his work. This is the work of the Spirit and Paul said God’s ministers are “minsters of the spirit and not of the letter “ (2 Cor).

This one God is revealed in three persons, this is called the trinity or tri unity. This trinity view did not begin woth men, but was all through the bible and more fully revealed in the new testeament and commisionsed by Jesus. This is the true God revealed in the Father,Son and Holy Ghost and his work and power will be known in all the earth.

When we say for example, that the Father sent the Son into the world and the Son (Jesus) died for our sins and was be burried and rose again from the dead, and that he will baptise us with the Holy Ghost. This is just a sample of the type of teaching that all nations should be baptized into. This teaching immerses them into the power life character authority and virtue of the Lord.

Paul said that the gospel of Christ was what they received when preached to them and how they got saved and keep saved )1 Cor. 15;1-4.). All through the New Testament we see the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost taught and revealed.

The word “name” means “ charcter, authority” in Greek, 3686. The Lords character is expressed in many ways in the old Testament and the new. And this character is who he is and the attributes and virtue, power, life, revelation of his glory etc. When God revealed aspects of his name they would come into a deeper relationship with Him. For example if he revealed himself as their deliverer or healer or provider or strength or as a mighty man of war etc. His name refers to many aspects of who he is. So to immerse all nations into the name is a profound and marvelous truth. This is done through the Power of the Spirit.

We read in scripture that the name of the Lord is much more than a formula or spoken words over men in a water baptism. Scriputre speaks of this in many places, for example we read :” The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.” Proverbs 18:10 The name of the Lord is as ointment poured forth.” “ and “...I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me” John 17:11, “And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee” Psalms 9:10, “thy name is as ointment poured forth” Song of Solomon 1:3 . To run itnto the name of the Lord, and be kept in the name, is a far deeper revelation than a spoken formula in a ritual. The reader must ask, how are we kept in the name and how is the name of the Lord a strong tower that we run into?

We see this being baptized into the name also referred to being baptized in to the name of Jesus Christ. To be baptised, or immersed dipped as in a dye, covered whelmed) into a name, is to be in the character virtue, power, life, divine influence, and qualities of that name. To be baptised into the name Jesus Christ is to be in him and he in us and into the name of God our salvation.

The charcter,,power ministry attributes of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost can be shown in many places as they are revealed in the New testament. But this would be an exhaustive study and the whole of the New testament speaks of the various work and operations of the three. Jesus spoke of these three yet one God in many places, when teaching ( or immersing the world into this name) . He spoke of the father many times and the Holy Ghost and his work. But in the new testament, the Holy Ghost has come and the fullness can we all receive, as paul said “ of his fullness have we all received (verse).

So this section of scripture is not speaking of a water baptism formula, as I see it from scripture and in truth. But the teaching is what baptises them into the name or character power and life of the father the Son and the holy Ghost.

And so “But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.” Numbers 14:21, “For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” Habakkuk 2:14. “And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.” Psalm 72:19. And so Jesus says go teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the father the Son and the Holy Ghost .??verse check....

bling said:

Yes, the Spirit can baptize people, but you are not addressing the fact Christians cannot Spirit baptize people, since the Spirit does that, yet Christ told us to go forth baptizing converts so that would have to be water baptism, since we can do that. Also, the Apostles said they baptized people, so they were continuing water baptism.

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In 1 Cor. 12:13 we see the Spirit, not water this is by the Spirit believers are immersed. Into Christ or the body of Christ. This is different than the baptism with the Holy Ghost that Jesus brings,as I understand.

LoveofTruth said:

When we read,

Go therefeore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...” Matthew 28 ???

Jesus tells the disciples to go and “Teach all nations”. This teaching does something, it baptizes them or immerses them into the name. This is telling, because the word “baptizing” is what the teaching does, it is an action word that is the result of their teaching all nations. It did not say ,go and teach and then water baptize”. To baptize here is the result of the teaching. and the baptizing is “in the Name”. To baptise or immerse into, a name, means to baptise into the chacater, authority, virtue attributes, power life of that name. Into a name is the baptism here. The name (singular) that they were to baptise them into is the name of the Father , the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These three are one God ( 1 John 5:7 KJV) and so to teach all nations of the truth of the gospel, the work and character of God, who has expressed himself or revealed his nature character wirk power etc.and his purposes and truth through the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, is how the world is immersed into, or baptized into the name.

This expression “in the name”, is what the baptism is into. This is not a formula for water baptism, or we would have seen this formula practiced in scripture. Never do we see this as a formula in a water baptism.

The word “teach “ all nations. Is not just teaching with human wisdom and eloquence. God doesn’t call men to teach in their own power and understanding. “if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God that god in all things might be glorified through jess Christ” (1 Peter 4:11). The teaching that s refered to is the anointed teaching in the Spirit and power of the Lord that quickens the heart and immerses the whole world with this knowledge of God. Jesus taught with authority (Mathew 7:29) and Jesus spoke in this power “And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. Jesus gave this ability to the believers and who would teach all nations.

Paul said he did not come to them with words of mans wisdom but in the demonstration of the spirit and power (1Cor.2). He said that when they received the word from them they received it not as the word of men but as it is in truth, the word of God which effectually workeh in those that believe. When Peter was teaching and preaching the word to men, he had similar effect. We read that ““While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. “ Acts 10:44, and then the Holy Ghost was poured out to them that believed (Acts 10:45). Peters teaching or preaching to men they were immersed into the name of God (the character divine influence, power life virtues truth and revelation) of God

The apostles were baptized into Christ and the power to teach all nations. They were able by Gods grace to teach baptizing in the name, We see this in Acts “And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.” Acts 4:32. The word they taught and preached was in the Spirit and pricked the hearts of those that heard it as Peter was teaching them of The Son Jesus Christ and his death for their sin baptising them into the name Acts “Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Jesus said that while he was with the disciples he taught and revealed the name of “the Father” to them. Speaking of the Father, he said, “ I have manifested thy name unto the men which though gave me (verse John 17), and “ I have kept them in thy name. How do you keep someone in the name ( or character power life attributes virtue) of that name. This is by the power of the Spirit and through faith. “We are kept by the power of God through faith” . But they were particularly kept in the name or character, power, understanding and life of the Father. Jesus said he finished the work he was sent to do, he glorified the Father, John 17.

The Father was revealed more fully through Jesus teaching. But now the Son has been more fully revealed also and the Holy Ghost more fully. So the teaching that will result in the baptizing all nations into the name, is to reveal the full Godhead of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and his work. This is the work of the Spirit and Paul said God’s ministers are “minsters of the spirit and not of the letter “ (2 Cor).

This one God is revealed in three persons, this is called the trinity or tri unity. This trinity view did not begin woth men, but was all through the bible and more fully revealed in the new testeament and commisionsed by Jesus. This is the true God revealed in the Father,Son and Holy Ghost and his work and power will be known in all the earth.

When we say for example, that the Father sent the Son into the world and the Son (Jesus) died for our sins and was be burried and rose again from the dead, and that he will baptise us with the Holy Ghost. This is just a sample of the type of teaching that all nations should be baptized into. This teaching immerses them into the power life character authority and virtue of the Lord.

Paul said that the gospel of Christ was what they received when preached to them and how they got saved and keep saved )1 Cor. 15;1-4.). All through the New Testament we see the work of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost taught and revealed.

The word “name” means “ charcter, authority” in Greek, 3686. The Lords character is expressed in many ways in the old Testament and the new. And this character is who he is and the attributes and virtue, power, life, revelation of his glory etc. When God revealed aspects of his name they would come into a deeper relationship with Him. For example if he revealed himself as their deliverer or healer or provider or strength or as a mighty man of war etc. His name refers to many aspects of who he is. So to immerse all nations into the name is a profound and marvelous truth. This is done through the Power of the Spirit.

We read in scripture that the name of the Lord is much more than a formula or spoken words over men in a water baptism. Scriputre speaks of this in many places, for example we read :” The name of the LORD is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.” Proverbs 18:10 The name of the Lord is as ointment poured forth.” “ and “...I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me” John 17:11, “And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee” Psalms 9:10, “thy name is as ointment poured forth” Song of Solomon 1:3 . To run itnto the name of the Lord, and be kept in the name, is a far deeper revelation than a spoken formula in a ritual. The reader must ask, how are we kept in the name and how is the name of the Lord a strong tower that we run into?

We see this being baptized into the name also referred to being baptized in to the name of Jesus Christ. To be baptised, or immersed dipped as in a dye, covered whelmed) into a name, is to be in the character virtue, power, life, divine influence, and qualities of that name. To be baptised into the name Jesus Christ is to be in him and he in us and into the name of God our salvation.

The charcter,,power ministry attributes of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost can be shown in many places as they are revealed in the New testament. But this would be an exhaustive study and the whole of the New testament speaks of the various work and operations of the three. Jesus spoke of these three yet one God in many places, when teaching ( or immersing the world into this name) . He spoke of the father many times and the Holy Ghost and his work. But in the new testament, the Holy Ghost has come and the fullness can we all receive, as paul said “ of his fullness have we all received (verse).

So this section of scripture is not speaking of a water baptism formula, as I see it from scripture and in truth. But the teaching is what baptises them into the name or character power and life of the father the Son and the holy Ghost.

And so “But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.” Numbers 14:21, “For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” Habakkuk 2:14. “And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.” Psalm 72:19. And so Jesus says go teach ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the father the Son and the Holy Ghost .??verse check....

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You said: “This teaching does something, it baptizes them or immerses them into the name.” and “the teaching is what baptises them into the name or character power and life of the father the Son and the holy Ghost.”

Teaching someone does not baptize that person. Show me in scripture where teaching someone is described as baptizing someone?

Show me in scripture where some Christian spiritually baptizes someone where the credit is given to the person doing the laying on of hands or teaching them and not the Spirit?

Since, we are doing the baptizing and cannot Spirit baptize anyone, would it not have to refer to water baptism?

You say: “To baptise or immerse into, a name, means to baptise into the chacater, authority, virtue attributes, power life of that name.”

It does not say “into the name” but “in the name”. The “name” is directed at the individual doing the baptizing, that person has been given the authority, permission or power to baptize.

By what authority are you changing the wording from “in” to “into”, which have different meanings?

Bible dictionary: In the Bible, the phrase "in the name of" (Greek: en tō onomati or eis to onoma) primarily refers to acting under authority, representing someone's character, or signifying possession. It is not a "magic formula" of words, but a declaration of the legal and spiritual standing of the person acting.

“in the name of” is not directed to the person being acted on.

Christ said: “I have kept them in thy name.” but that is not saying they had the authority at that time but Jesus had God the Father’s authority.

Look at John 17 Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

The “name” has the power from the name giver and not from the teaching.

LoveofTruth said:

In 1 Cor. 12:13 we see the Spirit, not water this is by the Spirit believers are immersed. Into Christ or the body of Christ. This is different than the baptism with the Holy Ghost that Jesus brings,as I understand.

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We know there were a lot of people baptized by Christians in Corinth even though Paul himself only baptized a few people and said he was glad he did not baptize more and gave the reason: "so no one can say that you were baptized in my name".
Paul was adamant about not teaching the Gentiles to follow the OT Law which for you would include water baptism.
But Paul has to be talking about water Baptism here, since he could not be happy about not teaching (in your words Spiritually Baptizing) them Christ which He did teach.

bling said:

You said: “This teaching does something, it baptizes them or immerses them into the name.” and “the teaching is what baptises them into the name or character power and life of the father the Son and the holy Ghost.”

Teaching someone does not baptize that person. Show me in scripture where teaching someone is described as baptizing someone?

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I believe I addressed this in the comments I gave. The teaching of the word and ministering in teaching by the Spirit is powerful in those who believe. Jesus gave them teaching of the word from a spiritual empowering and that word he spoke and taught was spirit and life (John 6:63)

I gave an example while Peter yet spoke the words the Holy Ghost fell on them that believed.

The text is clear,it says

Matthew 28: 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

And Jesus was with them in all things. But notice go …and teach all nations,
baptising…”

The spiritual teaching comes from the power of God and the word is life in faith. This spiritual teaching immerses (baptizing) in the name. …

bling said:

Show me in scripture where some Christian spiritually baptizes someone where the credit is given to the person doing the laying on of hands or teaching them and not the Spirit?

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God directs and gives life and when a person speak as the oracle of God the ministry is of the spirit. Don’t is God that works in every believer to make them perfect unto every good work ..(Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

And even when Paul says things like this the power and giver of all things is God who uses the body of Christ to minister to others and teach all nations

Romans 1: 11. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;”

bling said:

Since, we are doing the baptizing and cannot Spirit baptize anyone, would it not have to refer to water baptism?

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I do not see water mentioned there in Matthew but the teaching in faith by the Spirit which immerses all in the name …show me the word water.

Jesus distinguishes between water baptism and baptism with the Holy Ghost in Acts 1

Acts 1: 5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
Notice baptized is past tense and when Jesus means water he says so.

bling said:

You say: “To baptise or immerse into, a name, means to baptise into the chacater, authority, virtue attributes, power life of that name.”

It does not say “into the name” but “in the name”. The “name” is directed at the individual doing the baptizing, that person has been given the authority, permission or power to baptize.

By what authority are you changing the wording from “in” to “into”, which have different meanings?

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The expression in or into connect as well consider;

Romans 6: 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”

So here the baptism into Jesus Christ or into Christ is the one saving baptism this comes by hearing the word and faith. This is not baptized into water but into Jesus Christ ,into Christ. This is not done by man eater baptizing any

So even if men use the words “in the name of Jesus Christ” eith a formula of words. The true immersion into the name is spiritual.

Consider this section and see that to be “in the name of Jesus Christ” is much more than outward formula.


Colossians 3: 16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”

So, the expression “whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of Jesus Christ” does not mean, that after every word we say or deed we must repeat the phrase “in the name of Jesus Christ” verbally. No, but it refers to our being in the name or in the character power authority life virtue etc of Jesus Christ .where we met the Word of Christ dwell in is richly. From this inward spiritual life in the Word we can teach in the spirit.

Also consider that giving them the “word” is how they were kept for they believed the word being not. Again by the word.

John 17: 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me…12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”


Continued …later

bling said:

Christ said: “I have kept them in thy name.” but that is not saying they had the authority at that time but Jesus had God the Father’s authority.

Look at John 17 Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfi…J

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John 17 actually reads like this

John 17: 6. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. ..11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. …14. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 18. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 26. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”(John 17 KJV)

Notice that the word given, taught, ,declared was how they believed and how they were immersed into in the name of the Father. Jesus said he had given then the Fathers word, and declared unto them the name of the Father and will continue to do so and as the Father sent Jesus and he taiught the word so Jesus sends them to do so.

And Jesus ask the Father to keep them through his own name. What do you think this means? Keep them through the name of the Father?

Also, Jesus spoke of his word and he said things that sound similar to a spiritual immersion or cleansing washing inwardly so,to preach or teach the word to all nations is how they are immersed, cleansed washed inwardly and immersed into the name as I understand.

Ephesians 5: 26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,”

John 15: 3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”

bling said:

We know there were a lot of people baptized by Christians in Corinth even though Paul himself only baptized a few people and said he was glad he did not baptize more and gave the reason: "so no one can say that you were baptized in my name".
Paul was adamant about not teaching the Gentiles to follow the OT Law which for you would include water baptism.
But Paul has to be talking about water Baptism here, since he could not be happy about not teaching (in your words Spiritually Baptizing) them Christ which He did teach.

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In the first chapter of 1Cor.Paul is refering to them practicing water baptism,which Paul said he did so little of it and then he pushes it all aside when he says the word “besides”..

1 Corinthians 1: 16. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.”

So Paul condescended to this for a bit but he was showing them that it was not rightly understood and that men may try to use the wisdom of words to justify it but the cross of Christ puts to death all works of the flesh for justification. He says a similar thing about the cross being made of none effect in Galatians 6 when they were having men constrain them to be circumcised. Paul also condescended to circumcision in having Timothy circumcised in Acts 16 but when they tried to get Titus (a non Jew) to be circumcised he stood against it (Galatians 3)

In 1Cor Paul also told them what the one true spiritual baptism into the body of Christ was in 1 Cor. 12:13 and the one saving gospel. 1Cor.15:1-4