The Seed

Jerry N. · Monday at 2:51 AM

prodromos said:
Apparently the Gnostics came up with some crazy ideas in order to explain what otherwise seemed to them to be contradictory statements in the Scriptures. I might have to dig a bit deeper but it does seem to make sense with flat earthers.
They haven't done a very good job however, because the model they've come up with still doesn't align with the descriptions given in Scripture.

The key might be that Gnostics believe in hidden knowledge. Flat earthers think they have the hidden knowledge, and the rest of us are deceived. It makes them feel special, but they miss the point that each one of the 8 billion of us is already special in the image of God. We might be worms that will someday judge angels, but Jesus gave His life for us.

Paul4JC · Monday at 9:46 PM

Jerry N. said:
The key might be that Gnostics believe in hidden knowledge. Flat earthers think they have the hidden knowledge, and the rest of us are deceived. It makes them feel special, but they miss the point that each one of the 8 billion of us is already special in the image of God. We might be worms that will someday judge angels, but Jesus gave His life for us.

3-Tier Cosmology is all over the Bible, so you make minus sense in this your conspiracy theory. which basically equals to name calling.

Dr. Michael Heiser taught, even though he himself embraced Science, that 3-Tier Cosmology is what the Bible teaches.

prodromos · Tuesday at 12:05 AM

Paul4JC said:
3-Tier Cosmology is all over the Bible, so you make minus sense in this your conspiracy theory. which basically equals to name calling.

Dr. Michael Heiser taught, even though he himself embraced Science, that 3-Tier Cosmology is what the Bible teaches.

Can you explain how flights between Sydney and Santiago take less time than flights between Sydney and Los Angeles on your flat earth?

Jerry N. · Tuesday at 2:36 AM

Paul4JC said:
3-Tier Cosmology is all over the Bible, so you make minus sense in this your conspiracy theory. which basically equals to name calling.

Dr. Michael Heiser taught, even though he himself embraced Science, that 3-Tier Cosmology is what the Bible teaches.

Dr. Michael Heiser said, “Lately I’ve been seeing things on Facebook (or have had those who follow my work sending me items) that ask if I believe the earth is flat. That’s a question I never thought I’d get, and I’ve gotten hundreds. Why the surprise? It’s difficult for me to believe anyone is so gullible and, yes, stupid, to believe the earth is flat. But as with so many other nuggets of nonsense, social media has brought forth its exhibits to demonstrate that reality.” Christians Who Believe the Earth is Really Flat - Does It Get Any Dumber Than This? - Dr. Michael Heiser

I don’t see how you can say that what I wrote is “basically equals to name calling.” I just pointed out the similarity.

Paul4JC · Tuesday at 6:45 PM

Jerry N. said:
Dr. Michael Heiser said, “Lately I’ve been seeing things on Facebook (or have had those who follow my work sending me items) that ask if I believe the earth is flat. That’s a question I never thought I’d get, and I’ve gotten hundreds. Why the surprise? It’s difficult for me to believe anyone is so gullible and, yes, stupid, to believe the earth is flat. But as with so many other nuggets of nonsense, social media has brought forth its exhibits to demonstrate that reality.” Christians Who Believe the Earth is Really Flat - Does It Get Any Dumber Than This? - Dr. Michael Heiser

I don’t see how you can say that what I wrote is “basically equals to name calling.” I just pointed out the similarity.

Yes, I already said he was a Science guy. Yes, he was anti "flat earth theory." Still he taught clearly that the Bible teaches 3-Tier Cosmology. As a renown and popular Bible scholar and teacher, he had to stay in his circle to be reputable, and stay out of other circles.

Many here can't just share their views without attacking others in one way or another, though there are a few exceptions.

prodromos · Tuesday at 8:56 PM

Paul4JC said:
Many here can't just share their views without attacking others in one way or another, though there are a few exceptions.

Yes, we often get accused of not accepting Scripture and being untruthful, and of following man and not God. Is it any wonder these threads keep getting locked.

You still haven't answered my question.

Jerry N. · Wednesday at 4:55 AM

Paul4JC said:
Yes, I already said he was a Science guy. Yes, he was anti "flat earth theory." Still he taught clearly that the Bible teaches 3-Tier Cosmology. As a renown and popular Bible scholar and teacher, he had to stay in his circle to be reputable, and stay out of other circles.

Many here can't just share their views without attacking others in one way or another, though there are a few exceptions.

This is a discussion forum. Attacking somebody’s belief system is not the same as attacking the person. If I have attacked you personally, I’m sorry. However, I think that I have only strongly disagreed that not believing in flat earth means I don’t accept the Bible as the word of God. I don’t think Dr. Heiser has compromised his beliefs, and you have done him a disservice by implying he was forced to do so.

Paul4JC · Wednesday at 6:13 PM

Jerry N. said:
This is a discussion forum. Attacking somebody’s belief system is not the same as attacking the person. If I have attacked you personally, I’m sorry. However, I think that I have only strongly disagreed that not believing in flat earth means I don’t accept the Bible as the word of God. I don’t think Dr. Heiser has compromised his beliefs, and you have done him a disservice by implying he was forced to do so.

I didn't say "he was forced to do so." I could have phrased it better though. To teach 3-Tier Cosmology which is very close to, if not the same as f e. The scapegoat for most are the f e words.

Have you studied Dr Heiser? I've listened to all 479 of his podcasts a few times and dozens of hours of his YT videos, as well as read 4, 5 of his books. I would even go to say he is the greatest Bible teacher of the 21st Century. He also embraced and taught from the book of 1 Enoch, (which again is full of 3- Tier Cosmology. He did not see at as Canonical, and said it didn't need to be, to be authoritative. "I don't consider the book of 1 Enoch to be inspired and canonical, but that is no excuse for neglecting it in the study of Scripture. Frankly, this entire book is testimony to the folly of this inattention." Michael S. Heiser - A book that isn't considered inspired by

Still on one side he taught "The Unseen Realm" very extensively, on the other he said of 3-Tier Cosmology, "This is how the ancient Hebrew saw the Universe." It doesn't take much to say there is a slight contradiction there.

Dr. Heiser was great and irreplaceable brother in Christ.

Paul4JC · Wednesday at 6:25 PM

prodromos said:
Yes, we often get accused of not accepting Scripture and being untruthful, and of following man and not God. Is it any wonder these threads keep getting locked.

You still haven't answered my question.

Yeah interesting that these are some of the highest viewed threads on CF. Must be a conspiracy to keep locking them. Now instead of one continual thread, there are dozens. We all "see in a mirror dimly", and "know in part" [1Co 13:12 ESV select]

prodromos · Wednesday at 7:03 PM

Paul4JC said:
Yeah interesting that these are some of the highest viewed threads on CF. Must be a conspiracy to keep locking them. Now instead of one continual thread, there are dozens. We all "see in a mirror dimly", and "know in part" [1Co 13:12 ESV select]

Why are you avoiding my question?

Jerry N. · 2026-01-29T01:42:39-0600

Paul4JC said:
I didn't say "he was forced to do so." I could have phrased it better though. To teach 3-Tier Cosmology which is very close to, if not the same as f e. The scapegoat for most are the f e words.

Have you studied Dr Heiser? I've listened to all 479 of his podcasts a few times and dozens of hours of his YT videos, as well as read 4, 5 of his books. I would even go to say he is the greatest Bible teacher of the 21st Century. He also embraced and taught from the book of 1 Enoch, (which again is full of 3- Tier Cosmology. He did not see at as Canonical, and said it didn't need to be, to be authoritative. "I don't consider the book of 1 Enoch to be inspired and canonical, but that is no excuse for neglecting it in the study of Scripture. Frankly, this entire book is testimony to the folly of this inattention." Michael S. Heiser - A book that isn't considered inspired by

Still on one side he taught "The Unseen Realm" very extensively, on the other he said of 3-Tier Cosmology, "This is how the ancient Hebrew saw the Universe." It doesn't take much to say there is a slight contradiction there.

Dr. Heiser was great and irreplaceable brother in Christ.

I have no problem with 3-Tier Cosmology. I haven’t studied Dr. Heiser’s books and lectures, but I have studied 3-Tier Cosmology, and it doesn’t follow that the earth is flat. It is good theology but not science. It reflects the reality of the spiritual world but not the physical world.

Paul4JC · 2026-01-29T21:43:01-0600

Jerry N. said:
I have no problem with 3-Tier Cosmology. I haven’t studied Dr. Heiser’s books and lectures, but I have studied 3-Tier Cosmology, and it doesn’t follow that the earth is flat. It is good theology but not science. It reflects the reality of the spiritual world but not the physical world.

Is it not more "natural" to accept the physical world than the spiritual? So is theology inferior to Science. Where do we draw the line?

So again as one who's gone through most of Dr. Heiser's material. On one side he embraces the supernatural, on the other Science. To me, something about that does not make sense. However, he does make some profoundly interesting statements in series on the book of Revelation. which I need to go back and find my notes.

Jerry N. · 2026-01-30T02:07:19-0600

Paul4JC said:
Is it not more "natural" to accept the physical world than the spiritual? So is theology inferior to Science. Where do we draw the line?

So again as one who's gone through most of Dr. Heiser's material. On one side he embraces the supernatural, on the other Science. To me, something about that does not make sense. However, he does make some profoundly interesting statements in series on the book of Revelation. which I need to go back and find my notes.

You are seeing a dichotomy that is not there. The Bible is about mankind’s relationship to God, and science is trying to understand God’s creation of the physical world. Humans are visually predisposed, and diagrams help us to understand abstract ideas. If I show you a diagram of how your computer communicates with the internet and the internet communicates with you, you might get an idea about how it works. However, it would not tell you much about the actual electronics involved. The three tier system helps mankind understand the spiritual relationship with God and the spiritual world, but it is not intended to explain how the physical world operates. Science does not have to be in opposition to religion, although some people use it that way.

By the way, you really should answer Prodromos’s important question.

prodromos · 2026-01-30T03:41:43-0600

We don't even need to delve into science to falsify the flat earth model. All we need to look at is the basic mathematics of trigonometry.
When it is noon in the Congo in the middle of Africa, it is Sunrise in the North of Brazil and Sunset in Singapore. The distance from where the sun is directly overhead to where it is just visible works out to be roughly 5360 miles either direction. If the sun is 3000 miles above the earth as claimed by flat earthers then there are two serious problems

Calculating the hypotenuse of the triangle formed when looking at the sun from Singapore or North Brazil comes to a little over 6000 miles, which is double the distance of when the sun is directly overhead, so the Sun should appear to be half the size at dusk and dawn to how it appears at noon.
Calculating the angle to the sun on the same triangle comes to just over 29° at dusk and dawn

All observation has the sun at 0° at sunrise and sunset, and the sun remains exactly the same size all across the sky. Nothing we observe is consistent with what should be the case with flat earth.
This is basic geometry, it isn't science. Anyone can confirm the distances and do the calculations and can see for themselves that flat earth simply does not add up.

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The Seed

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the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing

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