ICE, Killing, Justice, and Christianity

All Becomes New · Jan 26, 2026

I'm grieved by much of the news today. We live very much in an "us vs them" culture in the US today. In fact, I pointed out to a person recently that he was behaving in an "us vs them" way, and he just came right out and said, "[T]his absolutely is 'us vs them'." I was shocked. This is supposed to be a Christian working for an apologetics organization at colleges. When you appeal to Christian ethics, and then the Christians tell you your Christian ethics are wrong, what is the world coming to? I was just reading this passage in the Bible today. Keep in mind all that Christ says in the Gospels about being ridiculed, mocked, persecuted, etc., as I cite this verse that talks about the end of times...

Matthew 24:9-10
"“Then they will hand you over to be persecuted, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away, betray one another, and hate one another.”"

Keep in mind, this is talking about self-proclaimed Christians. Christ says that Christians will betray and hate one another. I don't know about you, but that should be a wake-up call to us to be very careful about how we treat one another as believers in the Lord. Does this mean that all Christians will hate each other near the time Christ comes back? I do not believe so for a few Biblical reasons. John 13:34-35, 17:21-23, Ephesians 4:11-13, 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 all make it clear that there WILL BE divisions among professing Christians, but, more or less, the true Christians will be unified as Paul says, "So that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

Having said this, I think it may be prudent of me, as someone who lives in the Twin Cities, MN, to speak about the recent killing of Alex Jeffery Pretti in Minneapolis during the protest that Minnesotans were doing against ICE.

Some preliminaries...

First, this man was NOT a radical leftist. He loved his country, though he disagreed with this administration. He has zero criminal record except for a few traffic tickets. He worked as an ICU nurse. Clearly, his intention was not to harm anyone.

Second, anyone saying that ICE has been perfect and has done nothing wrong is on the far side of being loyal to the government, and it is hardly worth dialoguing with these people. ICE has been caught lying red-handed about certain details. Their only retort is, "That's fake news," rather than actually addressing the evidence against them. I'll now give some examples of this...

Internal emails from 2024 showed ICE agents under the Trump administration exaggerated or made false statements about immigrants' threats, which, these false statements were used to justify the aggressive enforcement policies of ICE.
DHS lied about the Cato Institute report, saying 70% of arrests were of people who were violent criminals, but the data show it was closer to 30%. Trump's goal, as clearly seen, is to deport all illegals, not just the violent criminals. This is easily verified by statements by Trump saying he wants to do the largest deportation action in the history of America (or the world).
Mahmoud Khalil from Columbia was detained. ICE agents said he was trying to flee, but video footage shows that he was fully compliant. A blatant lie to cover their tracks.
There are other issues about ICE lying about the brutality and aggressiveness of ICE officers' tactics.

Having these blatant lies out in the open, which I would encourage you to fact-check, is a symptom of a larger issue. That larger issue is that, while I want justice to be done, and the bad guys not get away with it, it's also a problem when the government turns a blind eye to the brutality of what they are doing and justifies their overly-aggressive actions for the sake of "order."

On to the actual incident...

While I am not an expert, and I have not seen ALL the video footage (And frankly, watching a man get shot to death over and over isn't the first thing I want to do), I think it can reasonably be said that this man did not have to die. Of that, I am sure. ICE agents had the man on the ground. It appears they clear away from him shortly before he is shot several times. There is also a clear image of an ICE agent with the victim's gun some distance away from him before he was shot. Stories are flying around that he might have reached for another gun, but that really makes no sense since people with a concealed carry license legally don't usually carry more than one firearm at a time. Not to mention, there is not a shred of evidence that he even had another gun. There are also images of the victim having nothing in his hands but a cell phone.

Having said that, mistakes happen. Police are often in the moment and have to act very quickly in matters of life and death. That is not what is going on here, as best as I can tell. What is going on here is that ICE took matters into their own hands, didn't at all use the proper amount of force (in fact, one might call it barbaric), and a man was shot and killed because he "got in the way" more than anything else.

What is the Christian response to all of this? Pray for America. Pray for Donald Trump, who has resisted the Gospel at every turn, knowing plenty of people in his inner circle have shared the Gospel with him. Pray for Revival in our country to continue. Pray that Christians can see one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord rather than rivals. Above all, pray for God's will to be done. We are in some dark times, and I don't see any change on the horizon. Christians need to be strong and courageous. They need not be afraid to speak up. Not everyone is like me, and going to talk about these cultural issues. Some of you might be better equipped to simply be a listening ear to people, or to gently weave the Gospel into your everyday conversations. I am not here to tell all Christians they need to get involved in politics. But we all must be using our gifts to benefit the body of Christ—to be His hands and feet. To be his voice. To be salt and light.

Wherever you land on politics, if you are in Christ, you are a new creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God has prepared beforehand. Be vigilant. Be sober-minded. Be discerning. Be shrewd as serpents and harmless as doves.

stevevw · Jan 26, 2026

All Becomes New said:
I'm grieved by much of the news today. We live very much in an "us vs them" culture in the US today. In fact, I pointed out to a person recently that he was behaving in an "us vs them" way, and he just came right out and said, "[T]his absolutely is 'us vs them'." I was shocked. This is supposed to be a Christian working for an apologetics organization at colleges. When you appeal to Christian ethics, and then the Christians tell you your Christian ethics are wrong, what is the world coming to? I was just reading this passage in the Bible today.

Its because the modern church has become secularised ideologically and is almost in line with its thinking. The political has become the personal and in becoming the personal it has become everything. Including ones religion. There is no seperation anymore.

All Becomes New said:
Keep in mind all that Christ says in the Gospels about being ridiculed, mocked, persecuted, etc., as I cite this verse that talks about the end of times...
Matthew 24:9-10
"“Then they will hand you over to be persecuted, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away, betray one another, and hate one another.”"

Keep in mind, this is talking about self-proclaimed Christians. Christ says that Christians will betray and hate one another. I don't know about you, but that should be a wake-up call to us to be very careful about how we treat one another as believers in the Lord. Does this mean that all Christians will hate each other near the time Christ comes back? I do not believe so for a few Biblical reasons. John 13:34-35, 17:21-23, Ephesians 4:11-13, 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 all make it clear that there WILL BE divisions among professing Christians, but, more or less, the true Christians will be unified as Paul says, "So that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

By simply engaging in the culture war today runs the risk of falling into the trap of tribalism. Its all about pointing out the moral wrongs in others by association of their identity. Be it groups within society based on race, sex or gender to religion and even groups within religion pointing out each others wrongs by their denomination identity. ie its becuase their white, male, protestants, on the Left or Right ect.

More about the relative battle of human made ideology than the actual truth.

It is best to stay away or know when to pull out. When it becomes a battle of opposing identities views or morals, or how one group is wrong and all reasoning is cast aside. Then don't engage. You can say your belief. But if people react or oppose you. Then theres nothing that can be done.

I think this was like the disciples. Paul would tell his truth of the gospel and leave it at that. Repeat it if necessary. But not change it or compromise it. But simply state it and never take a step back. Even if that meant coping criticisms and being assaulted.

Christ said when the disicples went into a town and pople disagreed they were to leave that town in the dust of their footsteps. In fact I think it was a warning that if they stayed then things would begin to conflict. But the disciples would leave the town and go on to the next one. Where people may agree and accept the truth.

Maria Billingsley · Jan 26, 2026

All Becomes New said:
Then many will fall away,

Lets be clear, these are no longer Christians, they have fallen away. Some will repent and return to their first love Jesus Christ of Nazareth but for now they believe in the delusion sent by our Father because they know not the truth. We who stay the course must defend the faith according to His two commandments:

Matthew 22:37-40
"love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." The second is to "love your neighbor as yourself."

Love has certainly run cold. And while we, who remain steadfast, watch our brothers and sisters fall away to lawless behavior, we must stay the course, feed the flock and continue to harvest for His Kingdom. Understand that this process must take place in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. Those who use His name in vain will be judge by our Lord in the end.

“For many are called, but few are chosen” Matthew 22:14

Be blessed.

NBB · Jan 26, 2026

I was of the opinion the right was better i'm not from usa, but i think what the leftists are trying to do in the world is very bad, but now i am of the opinion that i don't want to be related to anyone of them, anyway political parties have nothing to do with christianity, and i think christians are making a mistake supporting and getting involved with politicians, in my country i just try to vote the less worse.

stevevw · Jan 27, 2026

I think the ICE situation is one controversial and volitile example of many that are rising up at the moment. This is not Christian but world powers and pricipalities at war with each other. A dangerous situation to get involved in. I think let the world sort that out.

But fundementally Paul says to pray for our rulers and authority that they may at least keep law and order and a safe and free nation. That Christians can have belief. We pray hopefully that the leaders become Godly. But there will be no theocracy.

If anything it is more likely that a corrupt and evil world power will come and persecute Christians. As I think is gradually happening as we see attacks on churches and Christians.

It seems whenever there is great political uprising in the world the church is always attacked in the end. Its seen as a threat.

com7fy8 · Jan 27, 2026

All Becomes New said:
Does this mean that all Christians will hate each other near the time Christ comes back?

I now trust that there is the "underground American church". Ones of these might not be seen in public pulpits and political activism; however, the ones obedient to Jesus are accomplishing all which is possible with God, though they might not be very visible.

All Becomes New said:
the recent killing of Alex Jeffery Pretti in Minneapolis during the protest that Minnesotans were doing against ICE.

So . . . were they protesting, or were they actively interfering? Active interference can help slow down the officers so they can become targets of shooters and others who wish to ambush them. So, possibly, then, active interference can be like to trying to kill and harm the officers . . . conspiring to help ambushers.

All Becomes New said:
Clearly, his intention was not to harm anyone.

So, to you it is clear he was not interfering . . . not delaying the officers from quickly and *safely* performing their mission??

I think of this > you say he was an ICU nurse; so likely he was intelligent enough to know any interference could help ambushers to get to the officers.

All Becomes New said:
anyone saying that ICE has been perfect and has done nothing wrong is on the far side of being loyal to the government,

Possibly, you are going with the tendency to class all members of a group the same way . . . profiling?? I mean, it was not "ICE" who has killed anyone, but individual officers have either murdered or justifiably killed certain people, or mistakenly . . . misunderstanding things . . . shot somebody who might have helped to cause the misunderstanding.

All Becomes New said:
ICE has been caught lying red-handed about certain details.

"ICE", to me, would mean every officer. I do not agree that every ICE officer is lying or covering-up or murdering people.

All Becomes New said:
I would encourage you to fact-check

My fact checking, in my imagination, is that not every officer is abusing and murdering people and lying. How many could and would, I don't know.

All Becomes New said:
nothing in his hands but a cell phone.

Was it in the dark, by the way? What might a cell phone in his hand look like, at a glance? Had they confirmed that he was a legal carrier, at that time?? In case they had not verified he was legal to have a concealed weapon, and even if they had taken that gun into custody . . . that phone still in his hand, after all that, might have helped to cause a misunderstanding.

In my case, I know there are police officers who are Satan's children. Ones abuse at home; this and suicides are reported to be a major problem. So, when I am near an officer, I make sure both my hands are empty and easily visible. This is anywhere. And when I have been observed or detained by law enforcement, my hands are right out and I am standing still until I am told to do otherwise.

And in case officers are not Jesus Christ's obedient people gentle and humble and all-loving and kind . . . my opinion is we are wise not to make things complicated for children of Satan who are working in law enforcement. To my knowledge, there are plenty of officers and soldiers and politicians who are not God's people; and so . . . expecting such people to do what is right . . . when they in the sight of God are not right, and God does not have genuine Christians volunteering to do their law enforcement and political and military jobs . . . there is a reason we are told to ***pray*** for them

You might think of just one person who is now very hard for you to handle; however, how much time in a day do you have to be actually involved with that person? Now, consider . . . an officer has other officers like this person, plus some number of culprits and activists like your horrible person, whom they have to deal with all through the day . . . possibly. And, like I say, a superior over other officers might be such a person. And you have a gun and you are expected to function professionally and courteously all through the day, with some number of horribles over you and around you even on your team, plus the ones at various scenes.

Now, as Christians yes we can be expected to be sweet and kind and gentle and creatively patient in loving any number of horrible people. However . . . "not all" officers and supervisors are of the ***character*** which we have to our so great advantage, by growing and maturing in Jesus.

In passing, one thing I am especially concerned about is what conditions the detainees are kept in. ****This is not an item that requires spur-of-the-moment judgment and decision making!!****

All Becomes New said:
Wherever you land on politics, if you are in Christ, you are a new creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God has prepared beforehand. Be vigilant. Be sober-minded. Be discerning. Be shrewd as serpents and harmless as doves.

Yes

And there is the consideration of if these things would happen while local police are securing areas where ICE will operate.

Tuur · Jan 28, 2026

Everyone does what is right in their eyes, from the most righteous to the most vile. The first question is whether what we ourselves think is right is actually right. We know, from scripture, that the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9) and our righteousness is like filthy rags ( Isaiah 64:6 ), so we must be careful that we’re not looking to justify ourselves. Note that, 250 years ago, devout Christians in Colonial America literally went to war with each other in the American Revolution, and each was convinced they were doing the Christian thing and their opponent was not. Many a church has fallen into disagreement over something as trivial as the color of the carpet. How then can we expect a church to be unified on weightier matters?

We are going to find sharp division here. Some may bemoan that and some may call those who disagree with them unchristian, and both flip through their bibles to justify themselves. Yet such has happened before and is bound to happen again. And the easiest thing in the world is the bemoan how others in Christ can be wrong while we thump our own chest and declare that we are in the right.

All Becomes New · Jan 28, 2026

com7fy8 said:
I now trust that there is the "underground American church". Ones of these might not be seen in public pulpits and political activism; however, the ones obedient to Jesus are accomplishing all which is possible with God, though they might not be very visible.

So . . . were they protesting, or were they actively interfering? Active interference can help slow down the officers so they can become targets of shooters and others who wish to ambush them. So, possibly, then, active interference can be like to trying to kill and harm the officers . . . conspiring to help ambushers.

So, to you it is clear he was not interfering . . . not delaying the officers from quickly and *safely* performing their mission??

I think of this > you say he was an ICU nurse; so likely he was intelligent enough to know any interference could help ambushers to get to the officers.

Possibly, you are going with the tendency to class all members of a group the same way . . . profiling?? I mean, it was not "ICE" who has killed anyone, but individual officers have either murdered or justifiably killed certain people, or mistakenly . . . misunderstanding things . . . shot somebody who might have helped to cause the misunderstanding.

"ICE", to me, would mean every officer. I do not agree that every ICE officer is lying or covering-up or murdering people.

My fact checking, in my imagination, is that not every officer is abusing and murdering people and lying. How many could and would, I don't know.

Was it in the dark, by the way? What might a cell phone in his hand look like, at a glance? Had they confirmed that he was a legal carrier, at that time?? In case they had not verified he was legal to have a concealed weapon, and even if they had taken that gun into custody . . . that phone still in his hand, after all that, might have helped to cause a misunderstanding.

In my case, I know there are police officers who are Satan's children. Ones abuse at home; this and suicides are reported to be a major problem. So, when I am near an officer, I make sure both my hands are empty and easily visible. This is anywhere. And when I have been observed or detained by law enforcement, my hands are right out and I am standing still until I am told to do otherwise.

And in case officers are not Jesus Christ's obedient people gentle and humble and all-loving and kind . . . my opinion is we are wise not to make things complicated for children of Satan who are working in law enforcement. To my knowledge, there are plenty of officers and soldiers and politicians who are not God's people; and so . . . expecting such people to do what is right . . . when they in the sight of God are not right, and God does not have genuine Christians volunteering to do their law enforcement and political and military jobs . . . there is a reason we are told to ***pray*** for them

You might think of just one person who is now very hard for you to handle; however, how much time in a day do you have to be actually involved with that person? Now, consider . . . an officer has other officers like this person, plus some number of culprits and activists like your horrible person, whom they have to deal with all through the day . . . possibly. And, like I say, a superior over other officers might be such a person. And you have a gun and you are expected to function professionally and courteously all through the day, with some number of horribles over you and around you even on your team, plus the ones at various scenes.

Now, as Christians yes we can be expected to be sweet and kind and gentle and creatively patient in loving any number of horrible people. However . . . "not all" officers and supervisors are of the ***character*** which we have to our so great advantage, by growing and maturing in Jesus.

In passing, one thing I am especially concerned about is what conditions the detainees are kept in. ****This is not an item that requires spur-of-the-moment judgment and decision making!!****

Yes

And there is the consideration of if these things would happen while local police are securing areas where ICE will operate.

If there is an underground church in the US, you are not part of it.

Firstlightdawn · Jan 29, 2026

All Becomes New said:
We live very much in an "us vs them" culture in the US today.

This is man's justice vs God's Justice. We look at the mess that man makes and that shows us our need for God.

God’s justice is perfect because He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from Him — motives, wounds, intentions, and consequences. So His judgments are never guesses or estimates.

God’s justice restores instead of just punishing. Human justice stops at penalties. God’s justice repairs what was broken and brings people back into alignment with what is right.

God’s justice is completely fair. No favoritism, no bias, no political angle. Every person stands equal before Him.

God’s justice is patient. He gives time, warnings, and mercy before judgment. His patience is part of His justice, not a contradiction to it.

God’s justice and mercy work together. Mercy gives space to repent. Justice sets things right. Both come from the same heart.

God’s justice is revealed fully in Jesus. At the cross, God didn’t ignore sin — He paid the cost Himself. That is divine justice and divine mercy in one act.

Firstlightdawn · Jan 29, 2026

stevevw said:
I think let the world sort that out.

Only God can sort it out. He watches over His word to fulfill what He proclaims He is going to do.

Jeremiah 1:12 — watching to see that His word is fulfilled.
Psalm 121:7–8 — “The Lord will keep you from all harm;
Isaiah 46:10 — “Declaring the end from the beginning,
and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.”

com7fy8 · Jan 29, 2026

All Becomes New said:
If there is an underground church in the US, you are not part of it.

You have not made clear why you say this. I do live in the United States.

And in case you mean you do not agree with some things I have said . . . you have not said what you do not agree with.

Firstlightdawn · Jan 29, 2026

All Becomes New said:
If there is an underground church in the US, you are not part of it.

We used to have a ministry for homeless people in the basement of an inner‑city church. Does that count as being “underground”? People usually use terms like “closet Christian” or “closet charismatic” when they mean someone who keeps their beliefs quiet so others won’t know.

All Becomes New · Jan 29, 2026

com7fy8 said:
And in case you mean you do not agree with some things I have said . . . you have not said what you do not agree with.

Correct. It is not worth it to me to debate you on this since no matter what I say, it will just be a debate to you.

Richard T · Jan 30, 2026

All Becomes New said:
I'm grieved by much of the news today. We live very much in an "us vs them" culture in the US today. In fact, I pointed out to a person recently that he was behaving in an "us vs them" way, and he just came right out and said, "[T]his absolutely is 'us vs them'." I was shocked. This is supposed to be a Christian working for an apologetics organization at colleges. When you appeal to Christian ethics, and then the Christians tell you your Christian ethics are wrong, what is the world coming to? I was just reading this passage in the Bible today. Keep in mind all that Christ says in the Gospels about being ridiculed, mocked, persecuted, etc., as I cite this verse that talks about the end of times...

Matthew 24:9-10
"“Then they will hand you over to be persecuted, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away, betray one another, and hate one another.”"

Keep in mind, this is talking about self-proclaimed Christians. Christ says that Christians will betray and hate one another. I don't know about you, but that should be a wake-up call to us to be very careful about how we treat one another as believers in the Lord. Does this mean that all Christians will hate each other near the time Christ comes back? I do not believe so for a few Biblical reasons. John 13:34-35, 17:21-23, Ephesians 4:11-13, 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 all make it clear that there WILL BE divisions among professing Christians, but, more or less, the true Christians will be unified as Paul says, "So that those who are approved may be recognized among you."

Having said this, I think it may be prudent of me, as someone who lives in the Twin Cities, MN, to speak about the recent killing of Alex Jeffery Pretti in Minneapolis during the protest that Minnesotans were doing against ICE.

Some preliminaries...

First, this man was NOT a radical leftist. He loved his country, though he disagreed with this administration. He has zero criminal record except for a few traffic tickets. He worked as an ICU nurse. Clearly, his intention was not to harm anyone.

Second, anyone saying that ICE has been perfect and has done nothing wrong is on the far side of being loyal to the government, and it is hardly worth dialoguing with these people. ICE has been caught lying red-handed about certain details. Their only retort is, "That's fake news," rather than actually addressing the evidence against them. I'll now give some examples of this...

Internal emails from 2024 showed ICE agents under the Trump administration exaggerated or made false statements about immigrants' threats, which, these false statements were used to justify the aggressive enforcement policies of ICE.

DHS lied about the Cato Institute report, saying 70% of arrests were of people who were violent criminals, but the data show it was closer to 30%. Trump's goal, as clearly seen, is to deport all illegals, not just the violent criminals. This is easily verified by statements by Trump saying he wants to do the largest deportation action in the history of America (or the world).

Mahmoud Khalil from Columbia was detained. ICE agents said he was trying to flee, but video footage shows that he was fully compliant. A blatant lie to cover their tracks.

There are other issues about ICE lying about the brutality and aggressiveness of ICE officers' tactics.

Having these blatant lies out in the open, which I would encourage you to fact-check, is a symptom of a larger issue. That larger issue is that, while I want justice to be done, and the bad guys not get away with it, it's also a problem when the government turns a blind eye to the brutality of what they are doing and justifies their overly-aggressive actions for the sake of "order."

On to the actual incident...

While I am not an expert, and I have not seen ALL the video footage (And frankly, watching a man get shot to death over and over isn't the first thing I want to do), I think it can reasonably be said that this man did not have to die. Of that, I am sure. ICE agents had the man on the ground. It appears they clear away from him shortly before he is shot several times. There is also a clear image of an ICE agent with the victim's gun some distance away from him before he was shot. Stories are flying around that he might have reached for another gun, but that really makes no sense since people with a concealed carry license legally don't usually carry more than one firearm at a time. Not to mention, there is not a shred of evidence that he even had another gun. There are also images of the victim having nothing in his hands but a cell phone.

Having said that, mistakes happen. Police are often in the moment and have to act very quickly in matters of life and death. That is not what is going on here, as best as I can tell. What is going on here is that ICE took matters into their own hands, didn't at all use the proper amount of force (in fact, one might call it barbaric), and a man was shot and killed because he "got in the way" more than anything else.

What is the Christian response to all of this? Pray for America. Pray for Donald Trump, who has resisted the Gospel at every turn, knowing plenty of people in his inner circle have shared the Gospel with him. Pray for Revival in our country to continue. Pray that Christians can see one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord rather than rivals. Above all, pray for God's will to be done. We are in some dark times, and I don't see any change on the horizon. Christians need to be strong and courageous. They need not be afraid to speak up. Not everyone is like me, and going to talk about these cultural issues. Some of you might be better equipped to simply be a listening ear to people, or to gently weave the Gospel into your everyday conversations. I am not here to tell all Christians they need to get involved in politics. But we all must be using our gifts to benefit the body of Christ—to be His hands and feet. To be his voice. To be salt and light.

Wherever you land on politics, if you are in Christ, you are a new creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God has prepared beforehand. Be vigilant. Be sober-minded. Be discerning. Be shrewd as serpents and harmless as doves.

Praise God you have a compassionate heart.

John Bauer · Jan 31, 2026

All Becomes New said:
If there is an underground church in the US, you are not part of it.

So, is he one of us, or one of them?

John Bauer · Jan 31, 2026

All Becomes New said:
I'm grieved by much of the news today. We live very much in an "us vs them" culture in the US today. In fact, I pointed out to a person recently that he was behaving in an "us vs them" way, and he just came right out and said, "[T]his absolutely is 'us vs them'." I was shocked.

Perhaps a little caution is in order here, for “on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things” (Rom 2:1). How many of your posts would someone need to read before finding examples of us-versus-them language? Spoiler alert: You did it in this post I’m responding to, speaking of “Christians” versus “self-proclaimed Christians” (and I’m assuming you’re in the first group).

But this raises an interesting question: Is us-versus-them language immoral? You seem to imply that it violates your Christian ethics, as evident by your shock that a Christian apologist spoke positively about that kind of language. If you consider it immoral, then there are other Bible passages you should probably consider soberly, such as Luke 11:23 (“Whoever is not with me is against me”), or 2 Cor 6:14-16 (“What fellowship does light have with darkness”), or 1 John 2:19 (“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”), and so on. Surely Jesus, Paul, and John were not being immoral by speaking like that.

All Becomes New said:
… that should be a wake-up call to us, to be very careful about how we treat one another as believers in the Lord. … Pray that Christians can see one another as brothers and sisters in the Lord rather than rivals.

Does that include how we see and treat @com7fy8?

All Becomes New said:
[Alex Pretti] was NOT a radical leftist. He loved his country, …

Evidence?

All Becomes New said:
Clearly, his intention was not to harm anyone.

Those who have no intention of harming anyone don’t go around committing crimes while armed, which is what Pretti did—or have a history of assaulting federal law enforcement officers while armed, as Pretti did.

Impeding or interfering with federal law enforcement is already a crime; doing it while armed changes the risk profile of the encounter, regardless of intent, even for those not involved (e.g., bystanders). It can transform the charge (into a felony) and the mens rea analysis.

All Becomes New said:
Anyone saying that ICE has been perfect and has done nothing wrong …

—sounds just as silly as someone saying Pretti was an innocent nurse and did nothing wrong.

All Becomes New said:
… while I want justice to be done, and the bad guys not get away with it, …

Are people who break the law bad guys? Should they get away with it?

All Becomes New said:
… it's also a problem when the government turns a blind eye to the brutality of what they are doing …

Sorry, what brutality are you talking about? Be specific.

All Becomes New said:
This man did not have to die.

Correct. He did not have to interfere with or impede a federal law enforcement action while armed. He could have kept his distance and used his voice and camera like the others.

Would he still be alive if, instead of letting him go, the federal agents had arrested him for assaulting them and damaging government property? Possibly. Getting arrested and thrown into jail could have woken him up. Or maybe that wouldn’t have changed anything and he would have continued committing crimes while armed anyway.

All Becomes New said:
ICE agents had the man on the ground. It appears they clear away from him shortly before he is shot several times.

There is just so much information missing in that summary—like why they suddenly backed away.

All Becomes New said:
There are also images of the victim having nothing in his hands but a cell phone.

You watched the video, so you know there was a lot of action in those few seconds, the reality of which a still image can’t capture. You are a Customs and Border Protection officer and one of your teammates yelled “gun” multiple times just as the guy you were attempting to detain starts to get up with something dark in his hand. Sure, analyzing a still image closely makes it a lot more obvious—a luxury the CBP officers didn’t have.

All Becomes New said:
Police are often in the moment and have to act very quickly in matters of life and death. That is not what is going on here, as best as I can tell.

Show me the video you watched where the officers were not having to act very quickly in a matter of life and death.

Oh, they were? Well, then that actually is what was going on here.

All Becomes New said:
What is going on here is that ICE took matters into their own hands, didn't at all use the proper amount of force (in fact, one might call it barbaric), and a man was shot and killed because he "got in the way" more than anything else.

I am beginning to suspect you think ICE officers shot and killed Pretti. If so, then you’re so badly misinformed that I am left wondering why you are commenting on this story at all.

It’s also telling that you have not mentioned a single word about what the protesters were doing, the dangers they are creating, the crimes they’re committing, the torture they are inflicting on the officers. (“What torture?!” Let me follow you around for four or five straight hours blowing a whistle incessantly the entire time. I can’t even handle 30 seconds of it, listening to these clips during the news, never mind hour after hour after hour without ceasing.)

All Becomes New said:
Christians need to be strong and courageous.

Christians also need to be sober minded and honest, not irresponsible and misleading, crafting a narrative that tells only one side and paints the other side in crude caricatures.

All Becomes New · Feb 1, 2026

John Bauer said:
Perhaps a little caution is in order here, for “on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things” (Rom 2:1). How many of your posts would someone need to read before finding examples of us-versus-them language? Spoiler alert: You did it in this post I’m responding to, speaking of “Christians” versus “self-proclaimed Christians” (and I’m assuming you’re in the first group).

But this raises an interesting question: Is us-versus-them language immoral? You seem to imply that it violates your Christian ethics, as evident by your shock that a Christian apologist spoke positively about that kind of language. If you consider it immoral, then there are other Bible passages you should probably consider soberly, such as Luke 11:23 (“Whoever is not with me is against me”), or 2 Cor 6:14-16 (“What fellowship does light have with darkness”), or 1 John 2:19 (“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”), and so on. Surely Jesus, Paul, and John were not being immoral by speaking like that.

Does that include how we see and treat @com7fy8?

Evidence?

Those who have no intention of harming anyone don’t go around committing crimes while armed, which is what Pretti did—or have a history of assaulting federal law enforcement officers while armed, as Pretti did.

Impeding or interfering with federal law enforcement is already a crime; doing it while armed changes the risk profile of the encounter, regardless of intent, even for those not involved (e.g., bystanders). It can transform the charge (into a felony) and the mens rea analysis.

—sounds just as silly as someone saying Pretti was an innocent nurse and did nothing wrong.

Are people who break the law bad guys? Should they get away with it?

Sorry, what brutality are you talking about? Be specific.

Correct. He did not have to interfere with or impede a federal law enforcement action while armed. He could have kept his distance and used his voice and camera like the others.

Would he still be alive if, instead of letting him go, the federal agents had arrested him for assaulting them and damaging government property? Possibly. Getting arrested and thrown into jail could have woken him up. Or maybe that wouldn’t have changed anything and he would have continued committing crimes while armed anyway.

There is just so much information missing in that summary—like why they suddenly backed away.

You watched the video, so you know there was a lot of action in those few seconds, the reality of which a still image can’t capture. You are a Customs and Border Protection officer and one of your teammates yelled “gun” multiple times just as the guy you were attempting to detain starts to get up with something dark in his hand. Sure, analyzing a still image closely makes it a lot more obvious—a luxury the CBP officers didn’t have.

Show me the video you watched where the officers were not having to act very quickly in a matter of life and death.

Oh, they were? Well, then that actually is what was going on here.

I am beginning to suspect you think ICE officers shot and killed Pretti. If so, then you’re so badly misinformed that I am left wondering why you are commenting on this story at all.

It’s also telling that you have not mentioned a single word about what the protesters were doing, the dangers they are creating, the crimes they’re committing, the torture they are inflicting on the officers. (“What torture?!” Let me follow you around for four or five straight hours blowing a whistle incessantly the entire time. I can’t even handle 30 seconds of it, listening to these clips during the news, never mind hour after hour after hour without ceasing.)

Christians also need to be sober minded and honest, not irresponsible and misleading, crafting a narrative that tells only one side and paints the other side in crude caricatures.

Not interested in debating common sense with you.

Firstlightdawn · Feb 1, 2026

John Bauer said:
Luke 11:23 (“Whoever is not with me is against me”)

We see this in Revelation, no lukewarm people allowed. People are in or out, for or against, no fense sitting allowed. You bring up two points that I talk about a lot.

John Bauer · Feb 1, 2026

All Becomes New said:
Not interested in debating common sense with you.

Or theology, or logic, or facts—the things I presented.

Free2bHeretical4Him! · Feb 1, 2026

John Bauer said:
Perhaps a little caution is in order here, for “on whatever grounds you judge another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge practice the same things” (Rom 2:1). How many of your posts would someone need to read before finding examples of us-versus-them language? Spoiler alert: You did it in this post I’m responding to, speaking of “Christians” versus “self-proclaimed Christians” (and I’m assuming you’re in the first group).

But this raises an interesting question: Is us-versus-them language immoral? You seem to imply that it violates your Christian ethics, as evident by your shock that a Christian apologist spoke positively about that kind of language. If you consider it immoral, then there are other Bible passages you should probably consider soberly, such as Luke 11:23 (“Whoever is not with me is against me”), or 2 Cor 6:14-16 (“What fellowship does light have with darkness”), or 1 John 2:19 (“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us”), and so on. Surely Jesus, Paul, and John were not being immoral by speaking like that.

Does that include how we see and treat @com7fy8?

Evidence?

Those who have no intention of harming anyone don’t go around committing crimes while armed, which is what Pretti did—or have a history of assaulting federal law enforcement officers while armed, as Pretti did.

Impeding or interfering with federal law enforcement is already a crime; doing it while armed changes the risk profile of the encounter, regardless of intent, even for those not involved (e.g., bystanders). It can transform the charge (into a felony) and the mens rea analysis.

—sounds just as silly as someone saying Pretti was an innocent nurse and did nothing wrong.

Are people who break the law bad guys? Should they get away with it?

Sorry, what brutality are you talking about? Be specific.

Correct. He did not have to interfere with or impede a federal law enforcement action while armed. He could have kept his distance and used his voice and camera like the others.

Would he still be alive if, instead of letting him go, the federal agents had arrested him for assaulting them and damaging government property? Possibly. Getting arrested and thrown into jail could have woken him up. Or maybe that wouldn’t have changed anything and he would have continued committing crimes while armed anyway.

There is just so much information missing in that summary—like why they suddenly backed away.

You watched the video, so you know there was a lot of action in those few seconds, the reality of which a still image can’t capture. You are a Customs and Border Protection officer and one of your teammates yelled “gun” multiple times just as the guy you were attempting to detain starts to get up with something dark in his hand. Sure, analyzing a still image closely makes it a lot more obvious—a luxury the CBP officers didn’t have.

Show me the video you watched where the officers were not having to act very quickly in a matter of life and death.

Oh, they were? Well, then that actually is what was going on here.

I am beginning to suspect you think ICE officers shot and killed Pretti. If so, then you’re so badly misinformed that I am left wondering why you are commenting on this story at all.

It’s also telling that you have not mentioned a single word about what the protesters were doing, the dangers they are creating, the crimes they’re committing, the torture they are inflicting on the officers. (“What torture?!” Let me follow you around for four or five straight hours blowing a whistle incessantly the entire time. I can’t even handle 30 seconds of it, listening to these clips during the news, never mind hour after hour after hour without ceasing.)

Christians also need to be sober minded and honest, not irresponsible and misleading, crafting a narrative that tells only one side and paints the other side in crude caricatures.

Well said sir … well said.

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ICE, Killing, Justice, and Christianity

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