Can you have justice without judgment?

There is no social justice, racial justice, economic justice, etc.

There is only justice; i.e., giving everyone his due, what he has earned. . .and it applies everywhere.

There is love and kindness for all, and compassion, provision, etc. for those in need.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

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Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

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There are many people who call themselves Christians that have no idea how to love as Jesus called his followers to love.

Yarddog said:

There are many people who call themselves Christians that have no idea how to love as Jesus called his followers to love.

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We are to love others as Jesus loved us. . .in truth and in deed.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it.

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There are worldly people who try to set up their own way of justice. This indeed is separate from Christianity . . . meaning how the Bible represents that Christianity is to be.

Yes, Jesus did good to people. Please note how Jesus did good in personal sharing and communication with people. He did not only have programs with controls determined by people who did not even personally know the ones who were being considered for benefits.

You can feed on . . . if you haven't, already . . . how the early church arranged for needy Christians to get assistance >

Acts 6:1-7.

The people selected men who they knew were honorable and reliable and competent, and these men took care of distributing things for the needs of people. The people personally knew the ones they chose for this good work. Plus, I can see how these men personally knew the ones they helped with church resources.

Churches and individuals do this now . . . already . . . as followers of Jesus. So, is this separate from God's way of Christianity? N

So, you can do this, now, as an individual, and find ones who are doing this and join them.

My opinion is that if a group or people are not already doing things to help the needy . . . this could be because they are not with Jesus. So, I would not try to "pull teeth" to get them to do something "social", if they have not started with Jesus. But find people who already are doing good and support them. And, of course, make sure they really are growing in Jesus and relating as His family, as God's word says, while reaching to needy people.

"though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor," "but have not love, it profits me nothing." (in 1 Corinthians 13:3)

There are ones who have done "great" things to help other people, but they were acting from bitterness and were self-righteously criticizing and looking down on others, while doing what they did. They were looking to people to do what *they* dictated should be done, not first submitting to God and obeying how He pleases to use us to help people: personally, most of all.

I now think of this > in the United States we have some number of very well-to-do people > who are "entitled". And they can be on drugs and going on to suicide, because they were not brought up to know how to love. They were fed arguing and complaining and beauty discrimination and anger and unforgivenes and looking down on others and using some preference for pleasure to try to satisfy themselves . . . not learning how to be and how to love like Jesus. So, in case you were to help all needy people to become rich like such selfish wealthy ones . . . they might likewise become selfish and entitled, themselves . . . and gain the world they want and lose their souls.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

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I think the overwhelming idea of what Justice I seem to pick up from this site is that justice only happens when it benefits them or penalises the ones they disapprove of.

Larniavc said:

I think the overwhelming idea of what Justice I seem to pick up from this site is that justice only happens when it benefits them or penalises the ones they disapprove of.

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Does that tell us more about them. . .or you?

Justice is giving everyone what they have earned.
Anything over and above that is generosity, charity, kindness, love, etc.

Clare73 said:

Does that tell us more about them. . .or you?

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Them. Clearly.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

Click to expand...

No, you can't have justice without judgment. However, you can judge actions rather than people. I don't think I'm a better person simply because I have great empathy, which makes me a very kind person. It is not any virtue that gave me that good wiring, and it is not my virtue that made me raised by good and loving parents in a stable home. I'm not a better person. I'm just lucky.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

Click to expand...

Based on what I have read on this site ‘Justice’ actually means glee at the misfortune of the ‘wrong type of people’.

Meowzltov said:

I don't think I'm a better person simply because I have great empathy, which makes me a very kind person.

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What happens when what you think of as kind is not the same as the person you are being ‘kind’ to?

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

Click to expand...

Has someone lost the plot I wonder.

I thought the mainstay of the Christianity was, "He lives"

Justice often means righting wrongs, striving against injustices done to others.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

Click to expand...

I don't think so because social justice has to also mean the worlds version of social justice and social justice on earth is building a human made kingdom and not a heavenly one.

In fact Christ says He is the Way, Truth and Life and there is only one way to life and God. That would not go down well with many of the social justice warriors to put individual rights over all else. Even over God.

I think Christ is offering a way to life and not social justice. True freedom and peace beyond this world. Christ hung with those who needed Him, the outcasts. But not in condoning their sin. But making the way open to all regardless of who they are or what status they have.

stevevw said:

I don't think so because social justice has to also mean the worlds version of social justice and social justice on earth is building a human made kingdom and not a heavenly one.

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The problem with this thinking is that the very real suffering of people RIGHT NOW doesn't get fixed by focusing on a future heavenly existence.

"It’s all right to talk about “long white robes over yonder,” in all of its symbolism. But ultimately people want some suits and dresses and shoes to wear down here. It’s all right to talk about “streets flowing with milk and honey,” but God has commanded us to be concerned about the slums down here, and his children who can’t eat three square meals a day. It’s all right to talk about the new Jerusalem, but one day, God’s preachers must talk about the New York, the new Philadelphia, the new Los Angeles, the new Memphis, Tennessee. This is what we have to do."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. "I Have Been to the Mountaintop" speech, Memphas, April 3, 1968

stevevw said:

I think Christ is offering a way to life and not social justice. True freedom and peace beyond this world. Christ hung with those who needed Him, the outcasts. But not in condoning their sin. But making the way open to all regardless of who they are or what status they have.

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Christ is offering a way to life, not a program of social justice. His focus is transformation from the inside out, not simply adjusting external systems. Social justice tries to fix society by changing structures; Christ restores people by giving them new life. When the person is restored, justice naturally follows.

Meowzltov said:

The problem with this thinking is that the very real suffering of people RIGHT NOW doesn't get fixed by focusing on a future heavenly existence.

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The problem with pushing everything into a future heavenly existence is that it leaves people to suffer in the present. Jesus didn’t teach escapism. He taught a Kingdom that breaks into the world now through justice, mercy, and restoration. If our theology allows us to ignore the wounded, the poor, or the oppressed today, then it’s not the Kingdom Jesus preached. The Kingdom of God is not a delay tactic — it’s a mandate to act.

Of course this is just a different way of saying that you said.

joechristianwarrior said:

Many people talk about "social justice" as if it's separate from Christian faith, or even opposed to it. And yet the Gospels constantly show Jesus standing up for the oppressed, calling out hypocrisy, etc. In fact, if Jesus were alive today, I wonder if His ministry would be labeled under the "social justice" branch? ​

I recently made a short video exploring what all this means for us today, and especially looking at the concept of Judgment, and how it relates to justice:

​

Do you think modern Christianity has lost touch with Jesus' idea of justice? Love to hear your thoughts!

Click to expand...

In my tradition, God's justice precedes His mercy. In order to obtain His mercy, we must first satisfy His need for justice. For example, in order to access God's merciful forgiveness for our sins, His justice requires that we must first acknowledge our sins (confess) and secondly, commit to amend our lives with the help of His grace to sin no more. Rinse and repeat is often required.

o_mlly said:

first acknowledge our sins (confess)

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Just what does this mean? How can we confess sin if we do not know what sin is?

Firstlightdawn said:

Just what does this mean? How can we confess sin if we do not know what sin is?

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That can be said of any matter of Christian belief. You cannot believe on the Lord Jesus Christ if you don't know Who He is. The same Goes for the Holy Spirit, justification, sanctification, the devil and so on.