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Hades/Sheol, and it's absence from reformed theology.

Dave...

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Hades simply means realm of the spirits. Since the NT was translated into Greek, Hades was the word that best described Sheol from the OT. The idea of Hades comes from Sheol in the OT, not Greek mythology. OT Sheol is translated Hades in the NT.

I've always said that Satan loves to put false icing on a true cake. We have the tendency to throw the whole thing away, or to use another metaphor, to throw the baby out with the bath water. I think that Purgatory, or the bad icing, had that purpose in mind, steering people away from a the Biblical truth of Sheol/Hades. Added to that the KJV erroneously translated that same word as 'Hell' in many places. or, as some have noted, that the idea of hell back then was more in line with what we know of Hades today. Anyways, this was one of the errors that the NKJV fixed.

Here's a link that everyone should have in their library that touched on this and more. I found this about twenty years ago and it was saying many of the things that I was discovering at the same time.

BIBLE STUDY MANUALS: EPHESIANS 4:7-9 HE LED THE CAPTIVES FREE


From this link below I took a quick, brief description and some reformed thoughts to save time...

"In the Apostles' Creed (called thus, not because it was written by the apostles, but because it sets forth in summary fashion the teaching of the apostles), there is the phrase, "Was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into Hell [Hades] ...."


In the materials supplied by the Westminster Assembly (1643-1648), the version of the Apostles' Creed printed there contains a footnote to the words "descended into hell" which reads as follows: "i.e. Continued in the state of the dead, and under the power of death till the third day." Similarly, the Westminster Larger Catechism Question 50 reads as follows: "Wherein consisted Christ's humiliation after his death?" Answer: "Christ's humiliation after his death consisted in his being buried, and continuing in the state of the dead, and under the power of death till the third day; which has been otherwise expressed in these words, he descended into hell." In other words, as understood by the Westminster Divines, "descended into hell" teaches that Jesus continued to be in the grave until the third day.

Incidentally, John Calvin took the phrase differently; he took it to mean in a metaphorical way that Christ endured the pains of hell on the cross. He argued that otherwise, this pithy Apostles' Creed said the same thing twice, which Calvin considered unlikely. He was probably right about one thing - that such a repetition was not part of the original Creed. In fact, the phrase, "descended into hell" was not original to the Creed. When it first appeared it was inserted as a substitute explanation for the phrase "buried". Only later did both terms appear together."


--------------------------

I know one thing, If Sheol/Hades is correct, as I understand it, then the traditional reformed view has big problems.

So, is this just a case of Biblical truth being buried by centuries of red tape, politics, or the "church"?

How did reformed theology, in my opinion, miss this doctrine? Is it just as easy as saying it's death, the grave, and clap our theological hands together, thus clapping the dust from our hands of all the theological complications that would arise otherwise? Is Abrahams bosom just a parable, the only one that ever used real names? It's clear that Hades and Sheol are used a lot in Scripture. I believe that this doctrine is important to know because it explains where the OT believers who had passed on had to wait until the cross, when Jesus descended and preached to the Spirits.

Reformed theology just kind of winks at this stuff and brushes it aside for obvious reasons. OT believers had to wait to be redeemed. The promises needed to be fulfilled. this is where they were kept.

What say you?
 
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Dave...

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"While Paradise is not now a part of Sheol/Hades it will be mentioned here because it was located in Sheol/Hades at one time. Before the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ everybody who died went to Sheol/Hades, which was at that time divided into at least two compartments. One was a place of torment while the other was a place of blessing, which was referred to as Abraham's Bosom (Lk. 16:22-25). As we mentioned before, Tartarus may be a specific place in Sheol/Hades.

We know that Jesus Christ went "into the lower parts of the earth" (Eph. 4:9), that is to Sheol/Hades, "in the heart of the earth," for three days and nights while his body was in the grave (Mat. 12:40). The Lord Jesus told the repentant thief that he would join Him in Paradise that same day (Lk. 23:42,43). This tells us that Paradise was located in Sheol/Hades at that time. We believe that this was the same place referred to as Abraham's Bosom in Luke 16. However, after Jesus Christ rose from the dead He ascended to the Father, taking the saints who were in Abraham's Bosom to heaven with Him. Thus, He took "captivity captive" (see Eph. 4:8-10).

That Paradise was moved to heaven is confirmed to us by the Apostle Paul who speaks of a man who was "caught up into Paradise" where he "heard unspeakable words" (II Cor. 12:3,4). With Jesus Christ's work complete, the believers who had been confined to Sheol/Hades were now taken to Heaven to wait in God's presence until the time of their resurrection to enter His Kingdom on Earth. Since that time, at death all believers go to Paradise in Heaven to await the time of their resurrection. This is true whether they belong to the Kingdom Church of the future or the Body of Christ Church of the present Dispensation of Grace."

 
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Dave...

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Elaborating on my point earlier.

Hades in the New Testament was not an idea that was borrowed from Greek mythology, rather, it originated in the OT Sheol. Just in case someone, like atheists often do, suspected something in the Bible was borrowed from another religion. Hades was the best word that was available in the Greek to translate the OT word Sheol. "Hell", on the other hand, is a problem because the Great White Throne judgment is still future, and Hades is simply the holding cell until that judgment. In other words, nobody is in Hell yet.

We see in some cases that the when the OT 'Sheol' is quoted in the NT, the Scripture in Greek quotes that "Sheol" using the word "Hades". At least in the NKJV it did. See Psalm 16:10, compare to Acts 2:27 for one example.

Psalm 16:10 For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:27-28 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.' "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool." ' "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
 
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timothyu

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when Jesus descended and preached to the Spirits.
He reiterated to the elohim (Sons of God) also captive there, the same thing that Enoch had told them Their was no reprieve for them. But as for Jesus, He said He (also a Son of God but one of a kind) would be leaving in three days and opening the door for those of the Kingdom. The restrictions of Death had been overcome, but not for those who rebel against the Kingdom of the Father (as these elohim and many humans had/have done).
 
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Dave...

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He reiterated to the elohim (Sons of God) also captive there, the same thing that Enoch had told them Their was no reprieve for them. But as for Jesus, He said He (also a Son of God but one of a kind) would be leaving in three days and opening the door for those of the Kingdom. The restrictions of Death had been overcome, but not for those who rebel against the Kingdom of the Father (as these elohim and many humans had/have done).
In this passage in 2 Peter, the word "Tartarus" is used. Is this who you are referring to?

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

There we have "Hell" as a holding cell again. Anyways, we are told that Jesus descended into Hades in Acts 2. Is Tartarus another compartment of Hades, or visa versa?

It is my personal belief that the 'captivity lead captive' is Ephesians 4, when Jesus ascended, are the OT believers who were already dead. I think Jesus preached to all of them. OT believers kept, He shared the Gospel and gave them what they needed to be in the presence of the Father, and non believers, still being kept and waiting for the White throne judgment, and apparently the Sons of God as you noted. I'm still not sure how Tartarus fits with all of that. Have any thoughts?

Dave
 
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d taylor

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In the Tanakh believers and unbelievers were both in the place of the dead. The difference is that place was divided into a side for believers and a side for unbelievers. Now after Jesus death and resurrection and when Jesus ascended to heaven. Jesus took with Him all believers from the place of the dead to heaven with Him (Jesus). Unbelievers remained there and today that is still where unbelievers go waiting for their resurrection and great white throne judgment, to be cast into the lake of fire.
 
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RandyPNW

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Great subject! I've asked these questions myself about death, Hell, Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, Tartaras, etc. And I've heard the various definitions, though I keep messing them up in my head.

I think of the OT sense of death as being given a name simply because it represents a place to house living spirits who survive after death. I don't think we cross the River Styx, but I do think we are transported by angels to a temporary destination until Christ's Cross can be applied in our final judgment.

In the NT era we all still die, but Christ's Cross and Resurrection do apply to us, and we go to be with him. In the OT, the saints also went to be with him, but in an as-yet incompleted state. Apparently the NT martyrs are also in an incompleted state because in the book of Revelation they are impatient.

So there must be, I figure, compartments in Hell or Hades, or Sheol--the place of the dead. Some to a temporary jail cell, and some go to a place with the Lord. They are still dead, physically, and their spirits, being un-resurrected are not yet complete.

In the book of Revelation Hell is destroyed, or thrown into the Lake of Fire. That just means death will finally be removed from the human race. The 2nd death is just final punishment for the wicked who suffer the fate of eternal separation from God's Paradise--just like the 1st death separated Adam and Eve from Eden and from any close connection to the Tree of Life.
 
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Dave...

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Great subject! I've asked these questions myself about death, Hell, Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, Tartaras, etc. And I've heard the various definitions, though I keep messing them up in my head.

I think of the OT sense of death as being given a name simply because it represents a place to house living spirits who survive after death. I don't think we cross the River Styx, but I do think we are transported by angels to a temporary destination until Christ's Cross can be applied in our final judgment.

In the NT era we all still die, but Christ's Cross and Resurrection do apply to us, and we go to be with him. In the OT, the saints also went to be with him, but in an as-yet incompleted state. Apparently the NT martyrs are also in an incompleted state because in the book of Revelation they are impatient.

So there must be, I figure, compartments in Hell or Hades, or Sheol--the place of the dead. Some to a temporary jail cell, and some go to a place with the Lord. They are still dead, physically, and their spirits, being un-resurrected are not yet complete.

In the book of Revelation Hell is destroyed, or thrown into the Lake of Fire. That just means death will finally be removed from the human race. The 2nd death is just final punishment for the wicked who suffer the fate of eternal separation from God's Paradise--just like the 1st death separated Adam and Eve from Eden and from any close connection to the Tree of Life.
Hey Randy

I thought that it was interesting that in Revelation, Jesus is said to hold the keys to Hades and death. Death signifying the act, and Hades the place we go after the act.

I agree, great subject and one that is not spoken about enough. I think that OT believers were kept in Hades until atonement was made, and the righteousness of God that is imputed to us as indwelt NT believers was established. Until then, or, until Christ was lifted up, the agent that paces us in Christ, the NT indwelling, was not yet given, and that which justifies us was only in promise up until the Holy Spirit was given. OT believers had to wait for the reality of it, the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Promises don't cleanse temples (us), blood does.

Romans 3:24-26 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where does Abrahams bosom fit into this? Here God's Word explains.

In Galatians 3:14,

14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

16-19 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

25-29 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dave
 
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RandyPNW

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Hey Randy

I thought that it was interesting that in Revelation, Jesus is said to hold the keys to Hades and death. Death signifying the act, and Hades the place we go after the act.

I agree, great subject and one that is not spoken about enough. I think that OT believers were kept in Hades until atonement was made, and the righteousness of God that is imputed to us as indwelt NT believers was established. Until then, or, until Christ was lifted up, the agent that paces us in Christ, the NT indwelling, was not yet given, and that which justifies us was only in promise up until the Holy Spirit was given. OT believers had to wait for the reality of it, the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Promises don't cleanse temples (us), blood does.

Romans 3:24-26 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where does Abrahams bosom fit into this? Here God's Word explains.

In Galatians 3:14,

14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

16-19 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

25-29 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dave
So very well said! Thank you.
 
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