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Why are 64% of American churchgoers wrong about Heaven?

RileyG

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North of 70% of evangelicals fawn over a president who conducts himself in a manner that is deliberately, overtly unChristian in a variety of ways. If they can't grasp the notion that things like lying, cruelty, and greed are bad, how do you expect them to grasp doctrinal nuances?
Sure. Sins must be repented of, and Mr. Trump admitted to never asking for forgiveness. He’s definitely not a role model or anything.

Interesting comment.
 
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RileyG

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The thread is about how American churchgoers are misguided about basic principles. I pointed out an example of how it’s even worse than the OP describes.
Well? I don’t think you’re entirely wrong. I don’t know how many Evangelicals look up to Mr. Trump as a spiritual leader.
 
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chevyontheriver

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North of 70% of evangelicals fawn over a president who conducts himself in a manner that is deliberately, overtly unChristian in a variety of ways. If they can't grasp the notion that things like lying, cruelty, and greed are bad, how do you expect them to grasp doctrinal nuances?
Do moat of them 'faun' over him or merely think that as bad as he is he might be better than the alternatives presented by that other big party. Having never been an evangelical I am admittedly an outsider to whatever is going on in evangelical circles.
 
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BPPLEE

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Do moat of them 'faun' over him or merely think that as bad as he is he might be better than the alternatives presented by that other big party. Having never been an evangelical I am admittedly an outsider to whatever is going on in evangelical circles.
For myself I have many problems with Trump, I didn't vote for him but I thought that he was better than the alternative and still do.
Am I evangelical?
I was Baptist in my youth, Fundamentalist for a short time,
Church of God , non denominational and now I attend the Church of Christ.
Does that make me evangelical?
 
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RileyG

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For myself I have many problems with Trump, I didn't vote for him but I thought that he was better than the alternative and still do.
Am I evangelical?
I was Baptist in my youth, Fundamentalist for a short time,
Church of God , non denominational and now I attend the Church of Christ.
Does that make me evangelical?
Perhaps. They are restorationist. I don’t know if C of C identifies as Evangelical or not.
 
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BPPLEE

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Perhaps. They are restorationist. I don’t know if C of C identifies as Evangelical or not.
I don't agree with C of C on everything. For instance I think it's fine to have musical instruments in the worship service and I believe baptism is symbolic but those are not deal breakers
 
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RileyG

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I don't agree with C of C on everything. For instance I think it's fine to have musical instruments in the worship service and I believe baptism is symbolic but those are not deal breakers
I guess you would have to ask your pastor if C of C is Evangelical or not? It’s a rather broad term many Protestants use.
 
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BPPLEE

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I guess you would have to ask your pastor if C of C is Evangelical or not? It’s a rather broad term many Protestants use.
I think I am Evangelical , I can't speak for Cof C
 
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chevyontheriver

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For myself I have many problems with Trump, I didn't vote for him but I thought that he was better than the alternative and still do.
I think the same. He was better than the alternative big party candidate. But that isn't saying much. I wanted my vote to count so I wrote in the American Solidarity Party candidate, not giving my vote to the second worst candidate.

As to whether you are an evangelical I am not able to give an answer because it's a very fluid definition. I guess it's kind of up to you. Are you a friend of Jesus? Any friend of Jesus can be a friend of mine if they want to.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Do moat of them 'faun' over him or merely think that as bad as he is he might be better than the alternatives presented by that other big party. Having never been an evangelical I am admittedly an outsider to whatever is going on in evangelical circles.
If it were merely a case of holding their noses and voting for him over a Dem, then he wouldn’t have won the 2016 primary so handily; he wouldn’t have had so much support during the impeachment; and he would have been primaried again in 2024.

Remember, if he gets convicted during impeachment, that doesn’t install a Dem as president. It installs Mike Pence, uber-Christian.

Nope, the evangelicals want this. There’s a whole pentecostal wing that sees him as a means of seizing power and ushering in the kingdom on earth.
 
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chevyontheriver

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If it were merely a case of holding their noses and voting for him over a Dem, then he wouldn’t have won the 2016 primary so handily; he wouldn’t have had so much support during the impeachment; and he would have been primaried again in 2024.
There were MULTIPLE primaries in multiple states, in addition to the states which used the caucus system instead of primaries. Trump lost the caucus states but won the primary states, particularly those which allow for crossover voting.
Remember, if he gets convicted during impeachment, that doesn’t install a Dem as president. It installs Mike Pence, uber-Christian.
What about J. D. Vance? How does he get set aside?
Nope, the evangelicals want this. There’s a whole pentecostal wing that sees him as a means of seizing power and ushering in the kingdom on earth.
Really now? But what do I know, not being Pentecostal and all.
 
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BPPLEE

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There were MULTIPLE primaries in multiple states, in addition to the states which used the caucus system instead of primaries. Trump lost the caucus states but won the primary states, particularly those which allow for crossover voting.

What about J. D. Vance? How does he get set aside?

Really now? But what do I know, not being Pentecostal and all.
Someone's always picking on the Pentecostals
 
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iluvatar5150

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There were MULTIPLE primaries in multiple states, in addition to the states which used the caucus system instead of primaries. Trump lost the caucus states but won the primary states, particularly those which allow for crossover voting.
Ok? And?

What about J. D. Vance? How does he get set aside?

Perhaps my usage of the present tense was confusing, but I was referring to the impeachment during his first term. Vance hadn’t even been elected yet.
Really now? But what do I know, not being Pentecostal and all.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Ok? And?



Perhaps my usage of the present tense was confusing, but I was referring to the impeachment during his first term. Vance hadn’t even been elected yet.
I’m presuming you want to impeach him a few more times, so the current VP would be relevant. You do want to impeach him a few more times, right? Which of course has nothing to do with this thread, just as Trump has nothing to do with this thread. My bad for even following along down this particular rabbit hole.
 
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Tuur

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Getting back to the original post, its apparently not unusual for people to have odd ideas despite attending gospel-preaching churches. Maybe it's not paying attention or maybe it's being drawn away by what tickles the ears,
 
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RileyG

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I’m presuming you want to impeach him a few more times, so the current VP would be relevant. You do want to impeach him a few more times, right? Which of course has nothing to do with this thread, just as Trump has nothing to do with this thread. My bad for even following along down this particular rabbit hole.
Trump will no longer be president in a few years. Time passes very quickly.

He will be retired and have immense wealth.

He’s a very divisive figure which indeed makes him “popular.”

No. Not necessarily saying that is a good thing.
 
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RileyG

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If it were merely a case of holding their noses and voting for him over a Dem, then he wouldn’t have won the 2016 primary so handily; he wouldn’t have had so much support during the impeachment; and he would have been primaried again in 2024.

Remember, if he gets convicted during impeachment, that doesn’t install a Dem as president. It installs Mike Pence, uber-Christian.

Nope, the evangelicals want this. There’s a whole pentecostal wing that sees him as a means of seizing power and ushering in the kingdom on earth.
If I may add, Pentecostals and Charismatics are often used interchangeably, but they are not the same.

Paula White, his “spiritual advisor” is charismatic, and AFAIK doesn’t identify as Pentecostal.

Pentecostalism includes many denominations such as Assembly of God, Church of God, Church of God in Christ, among many, many others. Some of them reject the Holy Trinity and are not Christian based on CF standards. Pentecostalism goes back to a movement that split from Methodism in the early 1900s. Or rather branched out from the Holiness movement.

Charismatics can include other denominations such as Catholics, Lutherans, Anglican/Episcopalians, Methodists etc. they emphasize gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Evangelical is rather broad term that includes many Protestant denominations.

Source: years of research and my nerdy theological brain ;)

(I’m not teaching either one. Just the difference between the two)
 
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RileyG

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Getting back to the original post, it’s apparently not unusual for people to have odd ideas despite attending gospel-preaching churches. Maybe it's not paying attention or maybe it's being drawn away by what tickles the ears,
Very true indeed. People sometimes like to “pick and choose.”
 
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stevevw

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I think this is a sign of the times of a post modernist and relativist society.

This is the idea that there are many ways to God. The remaking of Christ as a modern day egalitarian and progressive. Love makes up for sin. Love is love.

It is the world becoming more dominant even infiltrating the church. Secular and church beliefs becoming more unified. Instead of the renewing of the mind and spirit of Christ. Which is apart from the world and even in conflict with it. If we stand with Christ the world will hate us and see Christs way and truth as foolish.
 
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