Jesus = Michael?

Jesus = Michael?​

Here is a quote from White's "The Desire of Ages" (1898):

The words of the angel, “I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God,” show that he holds a position of high honor in the heavenly courts. When he came with a message to Daniel, he said, “There is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael [Christ] your Prince.”

- source, page 70

9Rock9 said:

So, I used to associate with the 7th Day Adventist Church even though I never officially joined them. Even though I no longer agree with their doctrines, I still find their theology fascinating and like to debate them from the Bible.

There is one doctrine I associated with the SDA that I don't recall hearing about during my time among them. It's the idea that Jesus Christ and the Archangel Michael are the same person.

Now, tbf to the Adventists, thet don't actually think that Jesus was an angel or a created being. How it was explained to me is that "Michael" is the name the angels use to refer to Jesus Christ. Also, "archangel" refers to a position or rank, not a type of Angel. In other words, Jesus is not an angel, but he is the commander over the angels.

Idk what to make of this. It's definitely a niche view, but I don't think it's exactly heretical since the Adventists are denying Christ's divinity nor his eternal nature.

While there seems to be some similarities with the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, there are some differences. It's not surprising since the JWs came out of Adventism.

What are your thoughts aboht this?

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I don’t think Michael is a title for Jesus or that the angels referred to Jesus by that name. I’ll go to the obvious verse where Michael is fighting with the devil over the body of Moses. Jesus would have no problem pronouncing an abusive (slander) judgement against Satan. Michael here is deferring judgement to the Lord and Jesus is the Lord and would not defer to Himself.

“But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him an abusive judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!””
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

9Rock9 said:

So, I used to associate with the 7th Day Adventist Church even though I never officially joined them. Even though I no longer agree with their doctrines, I still find their theology fascinating and like to debate them from the Bible.

There is one doctrine I associated with the SDA that I don't recall hearing about during my time among them. It's the idea that Jesus Christ and the Archangel Michael are the same person.

Now, tbf to the Adventists, thet don't actually think that Jesus was an angel or a created being. How it was explained to me is that "Michael" is the name the angels use to refer to Jesus Christ. Also, "archangel" refers to a position or rank, not a type of Angel. In other words, Jesus is not an angel, but he is the commander over the angels.

Idk what to make of this. It's definitely a niche view, but I don't think it's exactly heretical since the Adventists are denying Christ's divinity nor his eternal nature.

While there seems to be some similarities with the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, there are some differences. It's not surprising since the JWs came out of Adventism.

What are your thoughts aboht this?

Click to expand...

It is difficult to reconcile the first mention of Michael, in Daniel 10:13 , with the presumption that he is the Son of God as it clearly states that he is " one" of the chief princes.

9Rock9 said:

So, I used to associate with the 7th Day Adventist Church even though I never officially joined them. Even though I no longer agree with their doctrines, I still find their theology fascinating and like to debate them from the Bible.

There is one doctrine I associated with the SDA that I don't recall hearing about during my time among them. It's the idea that Jesus Christ and the Archangel Michael are the same person.

Now, tbf to the Adventists, thet don't actually think that Jesus was an angel or a created being. How it was explained to me is that "Michael" is the name the angels use to refer to Jesus Christ. Also, "archangel" refers to a position or rank, not a type of Angel. In other words, Jesus is not an angel, but he is the commander over the angels.

Idk what to make of this. It's definitely a niche view, but I don't think it's exactly heretical since the Adventists are denying Christ's divinity nor his eternal nature.

While there seems to be some similarities with the Jehovah's Witness doctrine, there are some differences. It's not surprising since the JWs came out of Adventism.

What are your thoughts aboht this?

Click to expand...

Thank you for presenting the argument correctly. Many twist this into we believe Jesus is a created being and that is the furthest from the truth. We believe its another Title for Jesus- Commander, Price, Defender of God's people

There are a few reasons we believe this from Scripture.

First angel means- messenger mal’ak

Jesus is referred to in Scripture as the Angel of the Lord and speaks as God

An example:

Exo 3:2 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.” 4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”

Later identifies Himself as “I AM” Exodus 3:14
Which is Jesus - before Abraham was, I AM. John8:58

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil
Rev 12:7 Michael and his angels fought with the dragon
The central conflict in Scripture- Christ vs Satan

One Scripture uses the voice of the Son of God with the voice of the Archangel interchangeably at His Second Coming to raise those who are dead in Christ

John 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

1 Thes 4:16 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The voice of the Archangel raises the dead.
Jesus says His voice raises the dead.
Scripture never attributes resurrection power to angels.


Michael is the Great Price who stands up as King

Dan 12:1At that time Michael shall stand up,
2 The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people…
And many of those who sleep in the dust shall awake

Jesus calls Him Prince
Acts 5:31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior

Only Jesus is the Prince and Deliverer of God’s people.

Multiple Titles does not mean multiple beings

The Rock (1 Corinthians 10:4)
The Lamb of God (John 1:29)
Immanuel (Matthew 1:23)
The Branch (Zechariah 3:8)
Wonderful (Isaiah 9:6)
Michael (“Who is like God?”) is a title, not a different being.

This idea is actually not made up by the Seventh Day Adventist church. Many of the Reformers believed this as well.

Maria Billingsley said:

It is difficult to reconcile the first mention of Michael, in Daniel 10:13 , with the presumption that he is the Son of God as it clearly states that he is " one" of the chief princes.

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Exactly

Daniel 10:13 "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

St. Michael the Archangel is a creature, who serves and worships Christ.

SabbathBlessings said:

Michael (“Who is like God?”) is a title, not a different being.

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No. Michael is a creature. He is among the highest of the angels, but he remains only a creature.

There are many angels, and many archangels. Scripture doesn't tell us how many archangels there are, but Michael is counted as only one among many.

"The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia," - Daniel 10:13

St. Michael serves as a governor/general/captain/ruler of the heavenly hosts; but he isn't the only one; and even if he were the only one, he is still but an angel, a creature, and Christ is his Creator and God.

ViaCrucis said:

No. Michael is a creature. He is among the highest of the angels, but he remains only a creature.

There are many angels, and many archangels. Scripture doesn't tell us how many archangels there are, but Michael is counted as only one among many.

"The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia," - Daniel 10:13

St. Michael serves as a governor/general/captain/ruler of the heavenly hosts; but he isn't the only one; and even if he were the only one, he is still but an angel, a creature, and Christ is his Creator and God.

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Its was explained in the part of my post you didn't quote. Please feel free to respond to those Scriptures.

Its an interesting idea but some of the evidence against it, such as jude 1;9 is a quote from a book that was lost or if not, is not considered scripture.

So you cant use jude 1:9 for or against the idea.

johansen said:

Its an interesting idea but some of the evidence against it, such as jude 1;9 is a quote from a book that was lost or if not, is not considered scripture.

So you cant use jude 1:9 for or against the idea.

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The book of Jude is part of the canon of inspired scripture and it appears in all bibles. You can certainly use this book for teaching and correcting.

A friend of mine knows a guy who started a cult that believes Jesus was also Elijah. As in jesus has reincarnated possibly a few times.

So if Jesus is also michael, im not going to lose any sleep on it.

I will say sometimes spiritual ideas like this are not our own. For example something other than me called me by the name Elisha. Im like huh? Then about 12 hours later someone posted on a forum that Jesus was the reincarnation of Elisha. I messaged him privately and was like, there's no way you're going to find a single christian willing to believe that, where did you get this idea from?
and he starts mocking me, rambling about how this revelation given to him was beyond my understanding.

I was tempted to mock him back by saying, Jesus cant be the reincarnation of Elisha, because i am.

But i didn't. Instead i asked him "what is the name of the Spirit who called me by the name of Elisha 12 hours before you made your post? and he replies back saying Yeshua, and that shut him up.

But in a sense, anytime someone is known entirely by the Spirit of God operating through them. They become indistinguishable from Jesus. This has happened to me a couple times, people think im spiritually special or powerful and i hate it.

Hentenza said:

The book of Jude is part of the canon of inspired scripture and it appears in all bibles. You can certainly use this book for teaching and correcting.

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It isnt that simple, as the debates on judes quote of enoch will show.

Hentenza said:

Jesus would have no problem pronouncing an abusive (slander) judgement against Satan.

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I disagree with that presumption, especially prior to the resurrection.
Jesus did not even slander the demons, and had harsher words for thr pharisees than anyone else.

johansen said:

It isnt that simple, as the debates on judes quote of enoch will show.

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It matters not where the quotes came from. The book of Jude is inspired scripture either way regardless if the book of Enoch is inspired or not.

johansen said:

I disagree with that presumption, especially prior to the resurrection.
Jesus did not even slander the demons, and had harsher words for thr pharisees than anyone else.

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Jesus had no problems rebuking satan in the wilderness. Even prior to the resurrection Jesus was still God.

Hentenza said:

It matters not where the quotes came from. The book of Jude is inspired scripture either way regardless if the book of Enoch is inspired or not.

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it does, because no inspired person writes a book full of nonsense and one verse that's accurate and from God.

so, why is the rest of it missing?

RileyG said:

I thought that believe came from Jehovah Witnesses, who aren’t Trinitarian nor believe Jesus is divine.

Ellen G White was a very prolific writer. I’m not too familiar with her teachings or the teachings of the SDA Church.

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JW believes Jesus was the archangel a created-being.

We do not beleive Jesus is a created-being- He is the Lord of lords and King of kings, the great I AM. We beleive He uses Titles as Scripture shows in various places.