No,not at all.
I’m saying what scripture says that Johns water baptism was to end and it was part of the old testament shadows and “diverse washings” and carnal ordinances that could never purify or be part of the good conscience as we read ,
And that water baptism was not needed to continue ,but the Jewish believers were still struggling with the law and customs and animal sacrifices for many years after as scripture shows, (Acts 15 and Acts 21,etc) We consented using it all through Acts but we also see them sacrificing and going to the temple and keeping the law and customs call through Acts.
And the diverse washings (check the baptism Greek word there) were only imposed until the time of reformation. We see water baptisms, circumcision, keeping the law of Moses and animal sacrifices the temple all still being done in Acts .but when the Gentiles came into the outward visible church were Peter saw them believe and speak with tongues being filled with the Spirit without water baptism, so he had them baptised, then in the next chapter Acts 11 he rehearses the event and he then at that time remembered Jesus words in Acts 1:5 that John baptized with water but ye shall be baptized with the Holy ghost. So it seems that Peter was still practicing John’s water baptism (and or the Halakah law of the Jewish custom that water baptized Gebtike converts). Remember the Jewish believers were still struggling to come out of the old covenant age the law of Moses and sacrifices etc.
Consider the saving baptism in 1 Peter 3:21 is not water baptism but a baptism into Christ by the Spirit as we believe in his resurrection and raised up with him, having a full assurance of hope now and a clean conscience. Then conscience can only be clean by the blood of Christ not outward washings .
Consider these scriptures.
Hebrews 9: 9. Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
With
1 Peter 3: 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
So the saving baptism is not an outward washings with water but affects us inwardly
This is the saving batism
Galatians 3: 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Notice it’s baptism into Christ, not into water.
And this is by the Spirt, which all believers have .Remember Jesus said that he would baptize us with the Holy Ghost. But the Spirit baptised us first into Christ into the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
And the baptism into Christ was the reality.water baptism and that of Johns water baptism was old covenant which the early Jewish believers still practiced as they did all the law for a long time. Johns water baptism was close to them at that time. And the baptism into a Jesus and Johns water baptism are not both to be the same in water.
Paul said Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel
Thank you for your explanation.
I think your missing the reason and value to water baptism:
New Christians may not tap into everything that is available to them to help them experience the transformation:
I do not know of any Christian group, who believe the water itself saves you, since all believe it is God who saves and God is not limited by water.
Water baptism is not a “requirement” for salvation, since God does the saving, but is something Christians get to do to help them and others.
I know that I needed everything God could provide to assure me of my conversion, both outwardly and mentally. God wants you to physically feel the experience of what is going on Spiritually.
You would like to add to your conversion a definite time place and physical experience, which God has provided for you.
Adult believers water immersion is to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.
Christian Baptism replaced John’s Baptism and not circumcision, since circumcision went on at the same time as John’s baptism and it is not in the Bible where, Jewish Christians cease circumcising their boy children after baptism became available. Circumcision was a physical visible daily reminder to all Jewish boys and men that they were a Jew. The indwelling Holy Spirit is our literal daily reminder that we are Christians. The indwelling Holy Spirit replaced circumcision and is for both men and women.
There also appears to be many portions of the Spirit being given, but do not assume a particular Greek preposition will tell you if it is “on” or “in” since prepositions can take on either meaning most of the time, means change for prepositions and we do not know how these particular ones were used at the time in and around Jerusalem. The context is what we have got to look at.
A baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to be a very unique event, since Peter when he sees it happen to Cornelius and his household must go back years past to Pentecost, so it was not a daily occurrence.
Acts 10: 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were
astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Acts 11: 15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them
as he had come on us at the beginning. 16
Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but
you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave
them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
Peter in his explanation to the Jerusalem Jews had to go back years to the beginning to get a similar “Holy Spirit” baptism, which would mean it was unique.
We know followers before Pentecost had a portion of the Spirit John 20:22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “
Receive the Holy Spirit
But Christ said specifically: John 7:39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
After Pentecost there is the indwelling portion of the Holy Spirit.
Christian water baptism as seen in scripture seems to fit the “born again” scenario Christ was talking about since it: Is always adult (there are examples that “might include infants” but nothing definite, all the others are adult believers) water immersion to be a physical outward representation of what had or is happening spiritually in the person being baptized. It is mainly to help the individual being baptized to better grasp what is going on, but it can “witness” to others observing the baptism. It has the elements of going down under the water (burying the old man), placing your dependence in another; the person baptizing you (surrendering your life to God), being washed (having your sins washed away), rising out of the water (rising from the old dead body), and stepping forth out onto the earth (a new person). The person is walking out into the hugs of his new family. It is also a sign of your humility, since it is a humbling act anyone can simple allow someone to do it to them (so not a work) and since humility has been shown in the accept of charity (God’s free gift of undeserving forgiveness) it should just support and add to the memory of that acceptance. To refuse Christian water baptism when it is readily available might mean you are not ready to handle other responsibility like having the indwelling Holy Spirit and you are hurting yourself.
Why not be baptized again (there is no rule against this) to experience all you can from being baptized?
Yes, Ro. 10 is silent about baptism, but silence is not a proof for anything, and baptism was not the topic being discussed, the Jews had to believe first, so baptism would be down the road.
Is the real problem with humility, since adult water baptism is a humbling act?
Is the problem with “witnessing” since baptism help other Christians remember what they went through?
The whole “argument” about the “one” baptism having to be “spiritual baptism” so we do not need to (or even shouldn’t) be water immersed is not supported by scriptural examples, since everyone that was “baptized” by the Holy Spirit seems to have also been water baptized, also.
In an effort to emphasis God’s unconditional (salvation), water baptism of believers has been avoided as a subject. People have “argued” that water baptism is a work and since “works” are not required for salvation, water baptism must be avoided. Most “Christian” religious groups “allow” immersion of believers if they want it.
The problem with this reasoning is adult believer immersion is not something you “do” (work), but is something you allow to be done to you. It is not something “done” as some requirement, but is something you get to do for your sake (to help you) and the sake of others.
As for the scriptures you bring up:
Yes, the Jews (including Paul around Jews) throughout Acts are still practicing the Jewish traditions and Acts is before 70AD (destruction of the temple).
John’s baptism was for repentance, which carries the idea of faith in God’s forgiveness and turning toward pleasing God out of gratitude for forgiveness toward doing works of repentance (helping others).
John’s baptism being prior to Christian baptism could not be a physical demonstration of Christ’s being dead, buried and rising from the grave example. This new life in fellowship with other Christians and the indwelling Holy Spirit could not be part of John’s baptism.
Also the Jews had lot of different ceremonial washings, but they also had voiles and commitments which included water immersions.
1 Peter 3: 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people,
eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
1 Peter 3 is not putting down water baptism, water is symbolic of the Christians’ salvation also as it was for Noah. Water Christian Baptism is not being done to cleanse the dirt from your body, but symbolic of the
pledge (commitment or oath) you’re making to God.
Heb. 9: 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
Heb. 9 is showing how the ceremonial traditional acts of the Jews did nothing but were symbolic of what was to come. Christian water baptism does nothing tangible but is symbolic of what is going on Spiritually and thus helps the new Christian experience what is happening. Christian water baptism is extremely different from Jewish ceremonial washings and John’s baptism for repentance (commitment).
Gal. 3: 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
We were “baptized into Christ…” and thus “clothed yourselves with Christ”, but Christ was also baptized in water. Just like gentile female proselytes were water baptized (immersed) into a covenant Judaism relationship, to become Children of God we to were baptized into belonging to Christ.
This also works for:
Galatians 3: 27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
1 Corinthians 12: 13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
The water is not significant, but it is there.
You say: “Paul said Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel” which comes from:
1 Cor. 1: 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas
”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Christ avoided baptizing any individual, so no individual could not take pride in being baptized by Christ, but Jesus’ disciples baptized lots of people with John’s baptism at the time. Paul is saying he was glad he had not personally baptized more people for what I would say is the same reason Christ did not baptize any and from the context we can see why, so why did Paul baptize some and with what baptism did Paul baptize people?
