California Billionaires Are Leaving the State in Response to Proposed Wealth Tax

Hans Blaster · Sunday at 7:06 PM

Hentenza said:
A portion of the 1% are billionaires. Do you disagree?

I know that. That was MY point.

Hentenza said:
Income taxes come from income not from wealth. The link you posted lists the “true” tax rate based on wealth growth not on income. Tax laws in the US are based on income not on wealth or wealth growth.

I also know that. As that link points out, people with obscene wealth don't get it by earning income, but by asset inflation.

Hentenza said:
For example, from your link, Warren Buffet’s taxes are $24 million on an income of $125 million and yet, according to your link, his “true” tax rate is .10%. And yet based on income his actual tax rate is 19.2%. It is disingenuous to claim what is not.

Hentenza · Sunday at 7:24 PM

Hans Blaster said:
I know that. That was MY point.

I also know that. As that link points out, people with obscene wealth don't get it by earning income, but by asset inflation.

But they do pay taxes, right? You claimed that they did not pay taxes.

NxNW · Sunday at 7:47 PM

Hentenza said:
Where? Maybe you can quote my post?

Post 63.

Hentenza said:
Of course. Why wouldn’t I?

Claiming they've all gone bankrupt, and then retreating to asking how they're doing economically, is moving the goalposts.

Hentenza said:
No. Is called income taxes because it’s based on income,

No one talked about sales taxes. And even sales taxes are based on purchases not on wealth.

Nobody said the discussion of taxation is limited to income tax only. As I've repeatedly pointed out, there are other forms of taxation, not based on income.
Maybe I should point out that I'm personally not in favor of a tax on wealth, and I don't agree with most og the arguments in favor of it. I don't think the government has any business knowing what our account balances or net worth are. I also don't blame all the world's problems on billionaires. Or at least, not because they're billionaires. Someone else having more money than you doesn't automatically oppress you. But certain billionaires happen to be in positions of power to oppress people, and the ways they wield that power can be oppressive. I just don't think a tax on wealth is the way to go. Because 'wealth' can be hard to define. Should you be taxed on a 401k before you retire? Or the equity b in your house? Or the value of collectibles in your house?

No, I think the focus need to be on stopping the abuse of power. The Speaker of the House is reportedly broke, so a wealth tax wouldn't apply to him.

Hans Blaster · Sunday at 10:08 PM

Hentenza said:
But they do pay taxes, right? You claimed that they did not pay taxes.

Would you like it better if I'd said "hardly any taxes"?

Larniavc · Monday at 2:49 AM

Hentenza said:
No it shouldn’t. The government can not fix income inequality. Heck, we don’t even have a working government right now.

And whose fault is that? America needs to back off from late stage capitalism and have a more mixed economy. Extremes in any economic system are bad; America’s total profit economic system is just as flawed as communism.

Larniavc · Monday at 2:50 AM

Always in His Presence said:
My question is - once those horrible billionaires leave California - how are they going to fund their budget?

The way they do now. Taxes from regular folks.

Larniavc · Monday at 2:51 AM

Lukaris said:
Europe leftists trace their motivations to the French Revolution & the guillotine.

Sure. England (and the other European monarchies) and revolutionary France. It’s like I’m seeing double.

Larniavc · Monday at 2:53 AM

Hentenza said:
And what does that prove?

That nothing bad will happen with a few less fat cats hoovering up all the cash. That cash remains in the economy.

Larniavc · Monday at 3:06 AM

Hentenza said:
They might be a small percentage of the 1% but the 1%

As you’ve already had so kindly explained to you: the 1% is far more that Billionaires.

Billionaires occupy a very small proportion of the 1%.

Larniavc · Monday at 3:08 AM

Always in His Presence said:
but tax on their possessions.

Which is a good thing because then that money is much harder to hide from the tax man.

Which means more tax money and better services for normal folks.

timewerx · Monday at 3:12 AM

My post seemed to have escaped notice but if the entire USA adopts the wealth tax, the wealthy still have choice of moving to Canada or EU! ^_^

If taxing the rich doesn't work in USA, it seems to work well in other countries like Canada or EU. Low poverty rates, low stress living, low crime rates (outside of the immigrant crisis).

As others have already said, only barbaric societies tolerate or even promote high income gap between the rich and the poor.

How could some people literally burn millions worth of money while some starve to death? This is mainly the fault of those running the show.

"hard work" is poor excuse. If hard work is a factor then many blue collar jobs would be at the top of income levels. Greed is the main factor of broken wealth distribution. Not because one person is working millions of times harder than another. Smarts may be regarded as a factor, but not everyone has.

A society that severely punishes bad genes or poor luck or tiny mistakes have no place in the modern world.

Hentenza · Monday at 7:26 AM

NxNW said:
Post 63.

In post 63 I used Norway as an example. No where in my post did I claim that socialist countries did not exist.

NxNW said:
Claiming they've all gone bankrupt, and then retreating to asking how they're doing economically, is moving the goalposts.

I did not retreat. Please read my posts carefully.

NxNW said:
Nobody said the discussion of taxation is limited to income tax only. As I've repeatedly pointed out, there are other forms of taxation, not based on income.

Sure like death taxes which taxes estates above a certain amount.

NxNW said:
Maybe I should point out that I'm personally not in favor of a tax on wealth, and I don't agree with most og the arguments in favor of it. I don't think the government has any business knowing what our account balances or net worth are. I also don't blame all the world's problems on billionaires. Or at least, not because they're billionaires. Someone else having more money than you doesn't automatically oppress you.

I agree.

NxNW said:
But certain billionaires happen to be in positions of power to oppress people, and the ways they wield that power can be oppressive. I just don't think a tax on wealth is the way to go. Because 'wealth' can be hard to define. Should you be taxed on a 401k before you retire? Or the equity b in your house? Or the value of collectibles in your house?

No, I think the focus need to be on stopping the abuse of power. The Speaker of the House is reportedly broke, so a wealth tax wouldn't apply to him.

I agree.

Hentenza · Monday at 7:30 AM

Hans Blaster said:
Would you like it better if I'd said "hardly any taxes"?

Well, you made a claim….. Look, even in the link you provided it clearly shows that they pay taxes. If you consider $25 million to be hardly any taxes then so be it.

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 7:32 AM

Hentenza said:
Much worse with socialism since eventually they run out of other people’s money.

Hence why CA is having to propose this in the first place.

Hentenza · Monday at 7:32 AM

Larniavc said:
And whose fault is that? America needs to back off from late stage capitalism and have a more mixed economy. Extremes in any economic system are bad; America’s total profit economic system is just as flawed as communism.

We are going to disagree. While certain aspects of the US economy need to change the fact is that the US economy offers the best chances for people to get ahead. I believe in a free market economy.

Hentenza · Monday at 7:34 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Hence why CA is having to propose this in the first place.

I can’t tell if you are being facetious or simply just agree with what CA is doing. Maybe you could clarify?

SabbathBlessings · Monday at 7:39 AM

Hentenza said:
I can’t tell if you are being facetious or simply just agree with what CA is doing. Maybe you could clarify?

I'm actually agreeing with you.

CA has punished the gas companies, so some have moved out of State. CA has punished businesses, so many fortune 500 companies have moved their headquarters out of State. CA is now punishing billionaires not even on money they have, but money they have on paper so many are moving out of State. Why does this matter to CA- higher gas prices, higher taxes, less jobs. Even with this billionaire tax money they still won't be able to manage the budget. Newsome's started with 21 billion in surplus when he took over https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2019/4083/spending-plan-2019.pdf, CA now has 18 billion deficit Fiscal analyst to Gavin Newsom: Rough budget waters ahead and some people want him to get a hold of the US budget? God help us all.

I am from CA, its my home state and miss it terribly, but moved because its such a mess. This tax is not going to help CA.

Larniavc · Monday at 7:41 AM

Hentenza said:
the fact is that the US economy offers the best chances for people to get ahead.

It does so for the 1%. Everyone else has to struggle far more than in other western democracies.

NxNW · Monday at 9:12 AM

Hentenza said:
In post 63 I used Norway as an example. No where in my post did I claim that socialist countries did not exist.

In Post 63, you said, "Can you show a socialist government that did not go bankrupt?" That implies that all socialist governments have gone bankrupt.

If they still exist, then what was the point of your question? What can you conclude from their continued existence?

Hentenza · Monday at 9:37 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
I'm actually agreeing with you.

Hallelujah!!!!

SabbathBlessings said:
CA has punished the gas companies, so some have moved out of State. CA has punished businesses, so many fortune 500 companies have moved their headquarters out of State. CA is now punishing billionaires not even on money they have, but money they have on paper so many are moving out of State. Why does this matter to CA- higher gas prices, higher taxes, less jobs. Even with this billionaire tax money they still won't be able to manage the budget. Newsome's started with 21 billion in surplus when he took over https://lao.ca.gov/reports/2019/4083/spending-plan-2019.pdf, CA now has 18 billion deficit Fiscal analyst to Gavin Newsom: Rough budget waters ahead and some people want him to get a hold of the US budget? God help us all.

I am from CA, it’s my home state and miss it terribly, but moved because it’s such a mess. This tax is not going to help CA.

I agree. Texas, where I live, is one of the go to states for Californians to move so I’m seeing it first hand.

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California Billionaires Are Leaving the State in Response to Proposed Wealth Tax

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