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ICE shooting in Minneapolis, police swarm scene

The Barbarian

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Justice Department prosecutors resign amid turmoil over Minnesota ICE shooting investigation
More consequences over the killing and the attempt to control the narrative.
 
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Valletta

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That's what people are seeing, from different angles. And it doesn't reflect well on the killer.


But Noem is trying. The woman shot while breaking into the Capitol and confronting police apparently wasn't recorded; it would have been very useful to have that information. The "problem" of ubiquitous cell phones is not a new one for police; a lot of them have ended up charged because it is often no longer the cop's word against the citizen.

The point is that Americans are looking at the evidence, and most of them think the officer was in the wrong.
Probably most have not viewed the video from the officer's viewpoint. If after doing so people want the law changed I urge them to contact their elected official's office. Meanwhile, on a more pressing matter, I continue to urge the political leaders to pull back on their violent rhetoric and urge people to stop doxxing and stop interfering so that there are not more people killed. Remember the two immigrants killed by a sniper in Texas.
 
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Valletta

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Here’s an article discussing the question of firing at a moving car. What to know about the rules for officers firing at a moving vehicle. It’s not normally allowed. Officers are expected to move out of the way if they can. But things seem to have moved beyond that question, to trying to show that the victim or her wife is a bad person. A group of prosecutors agree that things are moving in the wrong direction. Justice Department prosecutors resign amid turmoil over Minnesota ICE shooting investigation
A lot of Minnesotans, including prosecutors, are hostile toward law enforcement and toward conservatives. Some Minnesotans even fund terrorists.
 
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hedrick

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A lot of Minnesotans, including prosecutors, are hostile toward law enforcement and toward conservatives. Some Minnesotans even fund terrorists.
That has no effect on whether the shooting was justified. I am not going to attempt to look at your assertion, since it’s irrelevant. Typically, the civil rights group examines officer shootings. They aren’t being allowed to in this case. Rather, attempts are being made to attack the victim. It is certainly possible that a careful investigation would clear the officer. But the current situation looks like a coverup. As such, many people are going to consider him guilty based on what is known so far. This is not fair to the officer or the public.

I note that one of the people resigning was key to the investigation of fraud in the state. He was well regarded by people in both parties. It is not just extreme liberals in the justice department who are upset.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Probably most have not viewed the video from the officer's viewpoint. If after doing so people want the law changed I urge them to contact their elected official's office. Meanwhile, on a more pressing matter, I continue to urge the political leaders to pull back on their violent rhetoric and urge people to stop doxxing and stop interfering so that there are not more people killed. Remember the two immigrants killed by a sniper in Texas.
This is where an effective leader is required. Otherwise we continue our descent into chaos.
 
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Tuur

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See post 177. For some here that alone would justify the killing. And I think the “politically approved positions” have certainly changed, as have the concerns of free speech.
To be fair, Babbitt being MAGA is all the justification some here need for the deadly force used against her, just as Good opposing ICE is all the justification some here need for condemning her shooting.
 
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Valletta

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This is where an effective leader is required. Otherwise we continue our descent into chaos.
Sadly, we don't have such people in charge here. The course for ICE is straightforward, they are simply enforcing the law. That is what was promised from the administration and that must be continued. I spoke about this before, the approach the administration has taken is to avoid confrontation and arrests of those who interfere as much as possible. Arrests slow the process of getting the worst of the worst and rescuing trafficked women and children. They will hold off as long as they can. But eventually, with the radical leaders continuing to incite their base, they will have to start making arrests and prosecute.
 
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Tuur

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But things seem to have moved beyond that question, to trying to show that the victim or her wife is a bad person.
And pointing out she was a mother of three who loved her spouse is relevant...how? That's what some have brought up, and yet it's irrelevant to what went down.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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To be fair, Babbitt being MAGA is all the justification some here need for the deadly force used against her, just as Good opposing ICE is all the justification some here need for condemning her shooting.
I hope those you speak of are a tiny, fringe minority. Though I am appalled by January 6th MAGA riot at the capital I grieve for Babbitt and others who died as a result of that dark day.
 
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hedrick

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I just looked at the final decision not to charge the officer who shot Babbitt. The bar for prosecution is very high. “Prosecutors would have to prove not only that the officer used force that was constitutionally unreasonable, but that the officer did so “willfully,” which the Supreme Court has interpreted to mean that the officer acted with a bad purpose to disregard the law.” From what I can tell, the decision in that case was right.

It is very likely that a fair investigation of this case would also result in no charges. I do think it was in violation of policy, but I doubt you could prove that the officer intended to disregard the law. Unfortunately I think the investigation is being botched, and no one is going to believe the result. They should let a normal investigation involve the local police and civil rights division, as usual, and refrain from attacking the victIm. Does Noem think a normal investigation would result in charges? Perhaps it might result in criticism of training or supervision?
 
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childeye 2

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I just looked at the final decision not to charge the officer who shot Babbitt. The bar for prosecution is very high. “Prosecutors would have to prove not only that the officer used force that was constitutionally unreasonable, but that the officer did so “willfully,” which the Supreme Court has interpreted to mean that the officer acted with a bad purpose to disregard the law.” From what I can tell, the decision in that case was right.

It is very likely that a fair investigation of this case would also result in no charges. I do think it was in violation of policy, but I doubt you could prove that the officer intended to disregard the law. Unfortunately I think the investigation is being botched, and no one is going to believe the result. They should let a normal investigation involve the local police and civil rights division, as usual, and refrain from attacking the victIm. Does Noem think a normal investigation would result in charges? Perhaps it might result in criticism of training or supervision?
The video shows him drawing his gun as she puts the car in drive. This officer had recently been dragged by a car and had suffered significant injury. He killed a woman who obviously was not intending to run him over, but he was probably reacting to the fact that the other officer was trying to get her out of the car and it triggered the reaction. I think he called her the b-word after he shot her; the officer should not be in the field.
 
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FenderTL5

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This officer had recently been dragged by a car and had suffered significant injury. .
That little morsel of information was disclosed quickly, just in case the investigation into the shooting goes against him. That temporary insanity PSD defense will be whipped out quicker than you can say Bob's your uncle.
 
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hedrick

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That little morsel of information was disclosed quickly, just in case the investigation into the shooting goes against him. That temporary insanity PSD defense will be whipped out quicker than you can say Bob's your uncle.
You may be right. But it’s sort of irrelevant. He’s not going to be charged. It’s virtually impossible to charge a law enforcement officer. The legal bar is very high. He doesn’t need a legal defense. I doubt his previous encounter will have much effect on public opinion. It might suggest that supervisors should take some action, but given how it’s being spun, that’s unlikely.
 
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The Barbarian

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Probably most have not viewed the video from the officer's viewpoint.
I doubt if there was body cam footage, and if there was, I doubt of the present administration will make it available to the police. However, the videos clearly show the ICE agent firing twice more into the car as the car moved away from him. In most police departments, that would (at very least) end the officer's career.
 
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Valletta

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I doubt if there was body cam footage, and if there was, I doubt of the present administration will make it available to the police. However, the videos clearly show the ICE agent firing twice more into the car as the car moved away from him. In most police departments, that would (at very least) end the officer's career.
The cell phone footage from the office was released as per below:

Why would you say that? There is no policy to shoot one bullet and then wait to see what happens in split second decisions. The policy is to shoot as many times until the threat is definitely stopped.
 
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The Barbarian

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To be fair, Babbitt being MAGA is all the justification some here need for the deadly force used against her, just as Good opposing ICE is all the justification some here need for condemning her shooting.
To be fair, if Babbit was attempting to flee the Capitol, and a police officer shot her three times as she fled, the outcome of the investigation would have been very different. Likewise, if Goode was actually attempting to run over the ICE agent with her car, people would be much less outraged at the killing.

Constitutionally, Goode messed up by trying to flee after being ordered to exit the car. Law enforcement has the right to give such an order. But no officer, much less an ICE agent, has the right to kill a fleeing person.
Why would you say that?
Because no department authorizing shooting a fleeing person. Most states, including Minnesota, it can be a crime. Because if Babbit was no longer threatening police, it would have violated department policy to shoot her.
The policy is to shoot as many times until the threat is definitely stopped.
A driver driving away is not a threat.
 
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The Barbarian

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Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem faces backlash over a podium emblazoned with "One of Ours, All of Yours" hours after Renee Good’s death, a phrase tied to Nazi collective punishment like the 1942 Lidice Massacre.

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem ignited a firestorm after appearing at a press conference behind a podium displaying "One of Ours, All of Yours" shortly after Renee Good's tragic death. Social media erupted, branding the slogan a Nazi-era call for collective punishment, akin to reprisals during World War II.
The phrase evokes the Lidice Massacre in June 1942, where Nazis retaliated for Reinhard Heydrich's assassination by wiping out the Czech village. SS forces shot nearly all men over 14, sent women to Ravensbrück camp, and scattered children—some gassed at Chełmno, others Germanized. They then razed the site, killing about 340 in a symbol of terror tactics.


This is the darkest America has become in my lifetime.
 
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Valletta

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Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem faces backlash over a podium emblazoned with "One of Ours, All of Yours" hours after Renee Good’s death, a phrase tied to Nazi collective punishment like the 1942 Lidice Massacre.

. . . This is the darkest America has become in my lifetime.
And the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. Cmon.
 
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