Are there any actual liberals here?

FireDragon76 · Dec 22, 2024

PloverWing said:
I'm maybe...moderately liberal, theologically. I generally accept modern science, and I accept higher criticism as one valid way to study the Bible. I think Schleiermacher made some excellent points, though I like Rudolf Otto's analysis better. Rauschenbusch changed the way I look at Christian ethics. On the other hand, I don't go as far in rejecting the supernatural as some liberal Christians do. I'm mostly good with the Nicene Creed.

That's liberal enough that I'm pretty comfortable in WWMC, but I can certainly think of theologians who are more liberal than I am.

I will say, though, that at an earlier point in my life, liberal Christianity saved me from atheism. When I could no longer be an Evangelical (by the American definition), liberal Christian theology was the safety net that caught my fall, that showed me a way to be Christian and still have intellectual integrity. I will forever owe a debt there.

The notion that liberal theology rejects the supernatural out of hand gets passed around alot as currency, but you dig below the surface and it's more complicated than that. Even some of the most liberal theologians or church historians, such as Adolf von Harnack, admits than many of the stories of Jesus' healing were based on events that actually happened.

What liberal theology was really about was challenging was some of the naive assumptions of the inherited orthodoxy of the 17th century..

RileyG · Dec 23, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
The notion that liberal theology rejects the supernatural out of hand gets passed around alot as currency, but you dig below the surface and it's more complicated than that. Even some of the most liberal theologians or church historians, such as Adolf von Harnack, admits than many of the stories of Jesus' healing were based on events that actually happened.

What liberal theology was really about was challenging was some of the naive assumptions of the inherited orthodoxy of the 17th century..

I always admire your immense knowledge and contributions!

Angeldove97 · Jan 25, 2025

My journey with Christ has led me to a "liberal" path. I don't have regrets. I'm a much more loving, empathic, and at peace person after giving up such strict rules. I still follow Traditional views with worship, less restricted viewpoints when it comes to societal norms.

XianGoth1334 · Mar 2, 2025

My answer is sometimes and on some specific issues. I think that in a lot of Christians contexts I would be culturally read as center-left. However, I also think that in actual liberal environments I get cancelled. Politically, I do not support "Woke" ideologies and am generally supportive of President Trump (and thankful everyday that we did not get Harris). Theologically, I believe in the supernatural and am in line with all of the "Main" points this forum requires to identify as "Christian". However, on many smaller points I am open to views and even have some that are not mainstream. I do best in a so-called liberal denomination. However, I am often on the conservative side of things, even there. I also think that being religious and pursuing a relationship with your Creator and Redeemer is itself a conservative endeavor, even if a person does not always conform or fit in the evangelical and/or Catholic mainstream.

CaDan · Mar 29, 2025

MaximumCrust said:
Is there actually anyone here who is liberal theologically and/or politically, or is this forum just conservatives arguing against liberalism?

You have to keep in mind that this subforum dates from the mid-aughts--the time of High Bushism in the United States. Evangelicalism and the reaction to evangelicalism were both at their peak. CF at that time was a more open yet more contentious place. "Liberal" and "Fundy" were routinely used as an insult.

The world has changed a lot in the interceding twenty years. But this subforum drifts along, a relic and remnant of an older and different time.

Evangelicalism as a political force has ebbed.

The Emergent Church is a forgotten anomaly.

Real Live Preacher retired his blog.

hedrick · Mar 30, 2025

I admit that I’m worried the direction described here is right. Those who would have been liberal Christians ate now agnostic. Only politicized right wing Christians are left. A few old Evagelicals, confessional Protestsnts and liberals are still around, but how long?

XianGoth1334 · Mar 30, 2025

CaDan said:
You have to keep in mind that this subforum dates from the mid-aughts--the time of High Bushism in the United States. Evangelicalism and the reaction to evangelicalism were both at their peak. CF at that time was a more open yet more contentious place. "Liberal" and "Fundy" were routinely used as an insult.

The world has changed a lot in the interceding twenty years. But this subforum drifts along, a relic and remnant of an older and different time.

Evangelicalism as a political force has ebbed.

The Emergent Church is a forgotten anomaly.

Real Live Preacher retired his blog.

Ah... yes... those were crazy years here on CF were they not? On some days wonderful and other days awful. Good to see you are still here.

JacquelineDeane55 · Jan 13, 2026

I don't know what I am to be honest. Never figured it out or formed my own beliefs.

My parents were both Conservatives. They always voted Republican. They both really liked Trump.

My mom made the argument that the Republican party was more tolerant of Christianity, which was why she always supported them and chose them in the end. The Democrat party, on the other hand, seems to be more hostile towards our faith she thinks. Therefore, she chose to become a republican. After all, why side with your enemies, right? Why support someone who is hostile towards your faith and who doesn't share your values?

Freth · Jan 13, 2026

I became a political conservative in the late 80's and early 90's, and I was heavily invested in political outcomes for a lot of years. And then I realized what it was doing to my mental well-being (being invested, languishing over outcomes).

I didn't come back to Christianity until 2016. When I did my perspective changed from political to religious, and so now I base my view on what the Bible says, and I don't profess any political affiliation, even though I would still be considered "conservative" by definition. I am not invested in political outcomes, I am invested in religious outcomes, like the gospel going to the world, salvation and the second coming.

Do I still hold political views? Sure. I don't participate in political debate anymore, even though at times I am being tugged in that direction. It all seems so pointless and futile to me (i.e. the political discourse which amounts to nothing), when there are bigger issues at stake.

RDKirk · Jan 13, 2026

Freth said:
Do I still hold political views? Sure. I don't participate in political debate anymore, even though at times I am being tugged in that direction. It all seems so pointless and futile to me (i.e. the political discourse which amounts to nothing), when there are bigger issues at stake.

A whole lot of religious debate also amounts to nothing.

Freth · Jan 13, 2026

RDKirk said:
A whole lot of religious debate also amounts to nothing.

It can, sure, which is why I don't debate at length anymore. It isn't just the people debating who read the threads, which makes it worthwhile.

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 13, 2026

JacquelineDeane55 said:
I don't know what I am to be honest. Never figured it out or formed my own beliefs.

My parents were both Conservatives. They always voted Republican. They both really liked Trump.

My mom made the argument that the Republican party was more tolerant of Christianity, which was why she always supported them and chose them in the end. The Democrat party, on the other hand, seems to be more hostile towards our faith she thinks. Therefore, she chose to become a republican. After all, why side with your enemies, right? Why support someone who is hostile towards your faith and who doesn't share your values?

A theological liberal hold certain beliefs about God and the Bible a d Jesus. A political liberal hold certain views on how society should be governed. Perhaps There is overlap but there need not be.

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 13, 2026

Or is there an inherent correlation between theology and civic opinion?

Akita Suggagaki · Jan 13, 2026

Why is it that conservatives line to focus on sexual morals while liberals like to focus on justice issues?

Paidiske · Jan 13, 2026

Akita Suggagaki said:
Why is it that conservatives line to focus on sexual morals while liberals like to focus on justice issues?

Conservatives, by definition, are resistant to change. Justice issues are about change; they are about removing oppression, challenging violence, and so on.

ChubbyCherub · Wednesday at 4:26 AM

I think most conservatives don't change for the sake of change.

Change isn't always about 'moving forward' as it is claimed by some.

Change can cause progress to move backwards or sideways.

Novelty isn't always progress.

Some things are in place because they are proven efficient through time.

People like to be 'heard' and 'seen' and present 'new ideas' to appear intellectual or forward thinking but ideas aren't always good when put into practice.

Disruptors can be a force of good or just be disruptive.

On the other hand, rigidity for the sake of it, is equally disruptive.

I don't subscribe to liberal or conservative, as these are social constructs, linear and unjustified apart from the attempt to have an 'us and them' in place, which is human nature and not constructive, in the main.

I am extremely rigid when it comes to the commandments of Jesus Christ. Anything other than that is just distraction.

hedrick · Wednesday at 6:58 AM

Akita Suggagaki said:
Why is it that conservatives line to focus on sexual morals while liberals like to focus on justice issues?

Christian ideas of sin have focused on sex from the beginning. You can see it even in Paul. It makes sense that conservative versions of Christianity would follow consistent tradition. It also makes sense that liberal versions would reconsider tradition and even Paul in light of Jesus and the prophets. That’s pretty much the definition of how liberal theology works.

FireDragon76 · Wednesday at 10:23 AM

JacquelineDeane55 said:
I don't know what I am to be honest. Never figured it out or formed my own beliefs.

My parents were both Conservatives. They always voted Republican. They both really liked Trump.

My mom made the argument that the Republican party was more tolerant of Christianity, which was why she always supported them and chose them in the end. The Democrat party, on the other hand, seems to be more hostile towards our faith she thinks. Therefore, she chose to become a republican. After all, why side with your enemies, right? Why support someone who is hostile towards your faith and who doesn't share your values?

Traditionally, political parties in the US reflected ethnic or class differences, not religion per se. That's still true, but who exactly is Republican and Democrat has changed, particularly after the 1990's- Clinton Democrats lost the white working class vote. Given that Evangelicalism is a predominantly working-class phenomenon, that explains the differences in re-alignment.

Angeldove97 · Saturday at 10:39 PM

FireDragon76 said:
Traditionally, political parties in the US reflected ethnic or class differences, not religion per se. That's still true, but who exactly is Republican and Democrat has changed, particularly after the 1990's- Clinton Democrats lost the white working class vote. Given that Evangelicalism is a predominantly working-class phenomenon, that explains the differences in re-alignment.

political parties in the US reflected ethnic or class differences, not religion per se

Except now Republicans are Christian Nationalists and are doing a very poor job of being actually Christian. I don't feel like American society can understand how to be a loving Christian and not be tied to such horrible politicians.

FireDragon76 · Sunday at 5:15 AM

Angeldove97 said:
political parties in the US reflected ethnic or class differences, not religion per se

Except now Republicans are Christian Nationalists and are doing a very poor job of being actually Christian. I don't feel like American society can understand how to be a loving Christian and not be tied to such horrible politicians.

This isn't something unepected. Billy Graham and other Neo-Evangelicals help popularize a mode of religion that turned Christianity into a consumable commodity, even though many religious leaders criticized his preaching on theological or anthropological grounds.

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Are there any actual liberals here?

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