Hundreds protest in Minneapolis after ICE officer kills Renee Nicole Macklin Good

durangodawood · Thursday at 10:39 PM

BPPLEE said:
I never said the ICE agent was justified in shooting the woman. I said a grainy video and another one where you can’t clearly see the agent who fired are not enough to make that judgement. Someone keeps saying he shot into the driver’s side window. You can’t tell that from the video. If he did, that is not justified and it’s a bad shooting

I didn't mean you necessarily. You dont come off that way here, even tho we probably disagree on most of these topics.

Bradskii · Thursday at 10:44 PM

BPPLEE said:
See post #57

Well, you get a thumbs up from me on that. But personally speaking I think you need to expand on that to point out that calling the woman a domestic terrorist and excusing the shooting and blaming her is also very wrong indeed. It's NOT just the killing that's wrong. It's the reaction from the administration as well. But that's your call.

BPPLEE · Thursday at 10:52 PM

Bradskii said:
Well, you get a thumbs up from me on that. But personally speaking I think you need to expand on that to point out that calling the woman a domestic terrorist and excusing the shooting and blaming her is also very wrong indeed. It's NOT just the killing that's wrong. It's the reaction from the administration as well. But that's your call.

They should have waited until after the investigation to say if the shooting was justified or not. They could still be supportive but say that they trust the investigation. You know Trump can’t keep his mouth shut though

BCP1928 · Thursday at 11:03 PM

BPPLEE said:
They should have waited until after the investigation to say if the shooting was justified or not. They could still be supportive but say that they trust the investigation. You know Trump can’t keep his mouth shut though

At this point, nobody is going to trust the investigation, since the results have already been announced. I think the same thing applies to the two people shot in Portland this afternoon.

MotoToTheMax · Thursday at 11:04 PM

BPPLEE said:
They should have waited until after the investigation to say if the shooting was justified or not. They could still be supportive but say that they trust the investigation. You know Trump can’t keep his mouth shut though

Noem can't. Vance can't. It's not just Trump.

rambot · Friday at 12:19 AM

ThatRobGuy said:
It's not just a minor inconvenience... parking one's SUV across the road to block law enforcement from getting to where they need to be is a little more serious (and then hitting the gas while one of them is in front of your vehicle when you realize you're about to be apprehended makes it even more serious than that...regardless of intent)

While it's not on the level of "pointed a gun at a cop", it's certainly not on the level of "put a whoopie cushion on his seat at the coffee shop" either.

Your response is to actually double down on that analogy....meh?

Trogdor the Burninator · Friday at 12:23 AM

BPPLEE said:
So let's just stop enforcing the law and just wait for people to turn themselves in.
Let's do it for all law enforcement so that LEOs don't kill anyone.
If someone resists or runs away just let them go.
We don't want law enforcement hurting anyone

Something that might interest you - Australia's immigration enforcement by and large is much stricter than the US. There are no "sanctuary cities, no official government support for undocumented people (though there certainly are far less of them thanks to geography, no mandatory housing as some cities like NY have.

Most tellingly, the idea that criminals should be removed from the country is taken pretty much for granted - foreigners who commit any crime where the potential sentence is more than 12 months in custody are deemed to fail the character test required for PR / citizenship and are subject to deportation. And this applies to anyone, no matter how long they have lived here.

Yet - there are zero riots, zero shootings of law enforcement or illegal immigrants, no protests, nothing. Why? Because it's not done for show, or to "stick it to the libs". It's a methodical, steady process, government by laws and the courts, prosecuted by uniformed, identifiable police, with people taken to documented detention centres that everyone knows of. There are certainly some people who object to the idea, especially for deportees that have lived here since they were young but never taken citizenship (mostly from New Zealand) but they aren't rioting at all.

The US could have done this - there is no difference in the result. And I'd bet that if Trump HAD conducted things this was, there would be almost zero protests or violence beyond a few fringe elements.

BPPLEE · Friday at 3:40 AM

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Something that might interest you - Australia's immigration enforcement by and large is much stricter than the US. There are no "sanctuary cities, no official government support for undocumented people (though there certainly are far less of them thanks to geography, no mandatory housing as some cities like NY have.

Most tellingly, the idea that criminals should be removed from the country is taken pretty much for granted - foreigners who commit any crime where the potential sentence is more than 12 months in custody are deemed to fail the character test required for PR / citizenship and are subject to deportation. And this applies to anyone, no matter how long they have lived here.

Yet - there are zero riots, zero shootings of law enforcement or illegal immigrants, no protests, nothing. Why? Because it's not done for show, or to "stick it to the libs". It's a methodical, steady process, government by laws and the courts, prosecuted by uniformed, identifiable police, with people taken to documented detention centres that everyone knows of. There are certainly some people who object to the idea, especially for deportees that have lived here since they were young but never taken citizenship (mostly from New Zealand) but they aren't rioting at all.

The US could have done this - there is no difference in the result. And I'd bet that if Trump HAD conducted things this was, there would be almost zero protests or violence beyond a few fringe elements.

As of early 2024, approximately
0.26% of Australia's population are illegal immigrants, a significantly smaller percentage than the estimated 3.3% in the United States.

Australia

Number: The Australian Department of Home Affairs estimated there were over 70,000 people living in Australia unlawfully as of January 2024. Other reports mention figures of around 75,000 people.
Percentage of Population: Given Australia's total population is approximately 28 million, this figure represents about 0.26% of the population.
Characteristics: Most individuals in Australia without legal status are visa overstayers who entered the country legally on student or visitor visas. Australia's island geography and strict border control measures mean there are very few people who enter the country undetected.

United States

Number: Estimates for the number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. vary among sources. The Pew Research Center and the Department of Homeland Security both estimated the population at around 11 million in 2022.
Percentage of Population: The 11 million figure accounts for approximately 3.3% of the total U.S. population.

Comparison
The percentage of the population without legal status is significantly lower in Australia (around 0.26%) than in the U.S. (around 3.3%). This difference is largely due to Australia's geographical isolation and effective border enforcement policies, which mean nearly all undocumented residents are visa overstayers, rather than people who crossed a land border undetected.
Source ; Google
75,000 compared to 11 million. Apples to oranges

Servus · Friday at 3:53 AM

When someone is in a vehicle while law enforcement is right next to the vehicle interacting with the driver, and the driver hits the accelerator, the vehicle enters 'vehicle as a deadly weapon' territory.

There's been numerous occasions where a driver has hit the accelerator in that type of situation, and killed or seriously injured an officer.

Pommer · Friday at 4:54 AM

durangodawood said:
They called her a "domestic terrorist".

Thats the kind of people now running exec agencies in the USA.

Well, obviously they had a detailed investigation in the several hours in between the incident and the statement.

FireDragon76 · Friday at 5:52 AM

GoldenBoy89 said:
Nothing about immigration enforcement requires these kinds of high profile sweeps and raids. This is to get a specific response and now we see just where this leads.

It’s better than killing them.

Do you want them to hurt people?

To understand Trump's immigration policies, you need to understand the role of myth and symbolism. It's political theater, meant to humiliate and dominate.

BCP1928 · Friday at 7:18 AM

BPPLEE said:
As of early 2024, approximately
0.26% of Australia's population are illegal immigrants, a significantly smaller percentage than the estimated 3.3% in the United States.

Australia

Number: The Australian Department of Home Affairs estimated there were over 70,000 people living in Australia unlawfully as of January 2024. Other reports mention figures of around 75,000 people.

Percentage of Population: Given Australia's total population is approximately 28 million, this figure represents about 0.26% of the population.

Characteristics: Most individuals in Australia without legal status are visa overstayers who entered the country legally on student or visitor visas. Australia's island geography and strict border control measures mean there are very few people who enter the country undetected.

United States

Number: Estimates for the number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. vary among sources. The Pew Research Center and the Department of Homeland Security both estimated the population at around 11 million in 2022.

Percentage of Population: The 11 million figure accounts for approximately 3.3% of the total U.S. population.

Comparison
The percentage of the population without legal status is significantly lower in Australia (around 0.26%) than in the U.S. (around 3.3%). This difference is largely due to Australia's geographical isolation and effective border enforcement policies, which mean nearly all undocumented residents are visa overstayers, rather than people who crossed a land border undetected.
Source ; Google
75,000 compared to 11 million. Apples to oranges

And, as Trogdor pointed out, immigration in Australia is seen as a practical problem, not an ideological struggle.

RocksInMyHead · Friday at 7:55 AM

Servus said:
When someone is in a vehicle while law enforcement is right next to the vehicle interacting with the driver, and the driver hits the accelerator, the vehicle enters 'vehicle as a deadly weapon' territory.

There's been numerous occasions where a driver has hit the accelerator in that type of situation, and killed or seriously injured an officer.

Which is why, generally speaking, officers are advised to let the person go in that situation rather than trying to block the vehicle or remove the person from the car. Obviously, there are exceptions for if the person is actively threatening others, but that wasn't the case here as she was obviously just trying to leave - the only person (theoretically) under threat was the officer who walked in front of the car during the course of the altercation.

They have her license plate number. They (probably) have photos of her. If they want to charge her with something and arrest her, they have the tools and ability to find her. The sole benefit of dragging her out of the car and/or detaining her at the scene is to send a message and intimidate protestors, which is not something that we should be applauding law enforcement for doing.

BCP1928 · Friday at 8:05 AM

If they let her go she would have continued to abet illegal immigrants in contaminating the purity of our cultural institutions, the worst crime an immigrant ever commits. Better to have gunned her down. Trump's Christian supporters are pleased with it, anyway.

ThatRobGuy · Friday at 8:07 AM

rambot said:
Your response is to actually double down on that analogy....meh?

Is what I've said inaccurate about where such actions would fall on the spectrum from...

"Minor annoyance" <-> "Pointing a gun at a cop"
?

ThatRobGuy · Friday at 8:19 AM

BCP1928 said:
If they let her go she would have continued to abet illegal immigrants in contaminating the purity of our cultural institutions, the worst crime an immigrant ever commits. Better to have gunned her down. Trump's Christian supporters are pleased with it, anyway.

Seems like you're injecting a lot into it, that simply isn't there.

Making it sound as if she was engaging in some sort of righteous quest to impede law enforcement officers.

Per the NRP coverage on it, it sounds like her (and the group of protestors she was with) had been engaging in some antics and following the ICE agents around.

MN Atty General Keith Ellison was trying to give it that "noble-sounding" tone as well.

"She was a compassionate neighbor trying to be an advocate on behalf of her immigrant neighbors," Ellison said. "That's what she was doing at the moment of her death."

What happens when advocacy drifts into felonious behavior?

Hentenza · Friday at 8:22 AM

Why is it that a young woman from Colorado ends up in Minneapolis at the head of a line of cars full of protesters following ICE in an altercation with ICE agents?

RocksInMyHead · Friday at 8:34 AM

ThatRobGuy said:
What happens when advocacy drifts into felonious behavior?

If no one is being hurt, you de-escalate the situation by allowing her to leave, then arrest her later after obtaining a warrant.

RocksInMyHead · Friday at 8:35 AM

Hentenza said:
Why is it that a young woman from Colorado ends up in Minneapolis at the head of a line of cars full of protesters following ICE in an altercation with ICE agents?

This may come as a shock to you, but people move. Sometimes even between states!

Landon Caeli · Friday at 8:40 AM

RocksInMyHead said:
If no one is being hurt, you de-escalate the situation by allowing her to leave, then arrest her later after obtaining a warrant.

It's an interesting idea, considering cameras can 'hold' evidence, for later charges.

...I don't know, I'm just a regular citizen. I have no idea how prosecution works.

NEVERMIND: ( I don't want to live in a surveillance state, where big brother records our every move at all times. I'll take the fatalities over that.)

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Hundreds protest in Minneapolis after ICE officer kills Renee Nicole Macklin Good

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