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The sequence of events

keras

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'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation' Quote Douggg.
You are judging me, without any proper evidence.
I deny the rapture to heaven, because it is nowhere to be found in the Bible. People never going to heaven is. - John 3:13, +

You want to punish me for rejecting your foolish beliefs? I leave any punishments to the Lord and be assured he will punish those who have led His people astray by promoting false ideas and un biblical theories.
So do you think you will die before the great tribulation starts ? I don't understand your rationale. You say no escape to heaven via the rapture to keep from having to go through the great tribulation. Yet you don't think you will have to experience the great tribulation that will affect everyone on earth.
You can't understand the truths of Bible Prophecy, because all who choose to believe false theories are locked into them. Isaiah 29:9-12
Proof of this inability is your failure to read the plain Words in Revelation 12:14, where the faithful peoples of God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of world Satanic control.
I expect to be alive to see the glorious Return of King Jesus.
 
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Douggg

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Proof of this inability is your failure to read the plain Words in Revelation 12:14, where the faithful peoples of God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of world Satanic control.
The ones in Revelation 12:14 are in the mountains of Israel during the great tribulation period, heeding Jesus's words for them in Judea to flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:.16-20. Though protected from Satan's persecution, they go through the great tribulation period.

You claim that the current nation of Israel will be depopulated by a Solar event and replaced with Christians migrating to Israel from around the world. What will be the population of the replacement nation of Christians ?
 
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1Tonne

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We are made to live on the earth, God has angels to serve Him in heaven.
Our task is clearly stated in Matthew 28:19-20, and we are clearly told what to do when things get rough; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you shall be saved.
But you believe that when we die, we are raised and judged? If so, where are we judged?
 
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Douggg

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Proof of this inability is your failure to read the plain Words in Revelation 12:14, where the faithful peoples of God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days of world Satanic control.
keras, You claim that the current nation of Israel will be depopulated by a Solar event and replaced with Christians migrating to Israel from around the world.

Then you claim that Christians of the replacement nation will rebuild the temple and that Christians will resume the animal sacrifices that the Antichrist will stop.

And you say those Christians, when the AoD is placed on the temple mount, will be taken to a place of safety on earth. How will they be taken to the so-called place of safety on earth ?

Jesus said for them in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the AoD standing in the holy place, Matthew 24:15-20. And pray that they don't have to flee on the sabbath day, Matthew 24:20. It is Jews (Judaism), who limit their travel on the sabbath day, not Christians.
 
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keras

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The ones in Revelation 12:14 are in the mountains of Israel during the great tribulation period, heeding Jesus's words for them in Judea to flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:.16-20. Though protected from Satan's persecution, they go through the great tribulation period.
The people in Rev 12:14, are those who have kept strong in their faith and when the AC conquers them, God will keep them safe.
Your confusion arises from having to have the Jews present to suit the false rapture idea.
What will be the population of the replacement nation of Christians ?
They will be a vast multitude; Rev 7:9
Jesus said for them in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the AoD standing in the holy place, Matthew 24:15-20. And pray that they don't have to flee on the sabbath day, Matthew 24:20. It is Jews (Judaism), who limit their travel on the sabbath day, not Christians.
Matthew 24:15-22 refers only to when the Temple is desecrated and the Great Tribulation commences. Exactly 1260 days before Jesus Returns.
The Christian peoples will also observe the Seventh Day as a day of rest. Just as we do now!
 
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keras

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But you believe that when we die, we are raised and judged? If so, where are we judged?
When we die, we 'sleep' in our grave. The dead know nothing, until the moment they stand before God on His Great White Throne. Rev 20:11-15

Revelation 21:1-7 tells us where and it will be the Eternal home for all whose name is found in the Book of Life.
 
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Douggg

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They will be a vast multitude; Rev 7:9
keras, the worldwide Christian population is around 2:5 billion. The current population of Israel is 10 million.

Even if only 10% (25 million) of the worldwide Christians population were to migrate to the land of Israel, following the solar event depopulation in your scenario, that would be over double the current population of Israel.

So when the AoD is placed on the temple mount, how is that 25 million Christian population are going to be taken to safe place on earth, right away? A large 757 carries around 470 passengers max. Let's round that off to 500. So two 747's would carry a 1000 passengers.

A million passengers would require a thousand 747's. And 25 million passengers would require 25,000 747's. There are only 300-400 active 747's in the world.

keras, your scenarios does not work on a multitude of levels.

Change from being a "Writer of studies on Bible prophecy" to being a "Chart maker on Bible prophecy".

 
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1Tonne

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When we die, we 'sleep' in our grave. The dead know nothing, until the moment they stand before God on His Great White Throne. Rev 20:11-15

Revelation 21:1-7 tells us where and it will be the Eternal home for all whose name is found in the Book of Life.
I agree.
 
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Douggg

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When we die, we 'sleep' in our grave. The dead know nothing, until the moment they stand before God on His Great White Throne. Rev 20:11-15
"The dead know nothing" Ecclesiastes 9:5 is that they are no longer a participant in the world of the living. It does not mean that they are no longer mentally aware of their out of body existence. The dead, their souls go to either the destination of the unsaved (hades) or of the saved (heaven). The dead are aware of their surroundings in those places.

Jesus preached to the dead during the three days that Jesus's body lay dead.

The 24 elders in Revelation, for example, formally lived upon the earth.
 
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1Tonne

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"The dead know nothing" Ecclesiastes 9:5 is that they are no longer a participant in the world of the living. It does not mean that they are no longer mentally aware of their out of body existence.
Once again you are adding your extra view to the text.
The dead, their souls go to either the destination of the unsaved (hades) or of the saved (heaven). The dead are aware of their surroundings in those places.
OK. So, if they are separated, then that must mean that there was a judgement made to say weather they went to heaven or hades. Where is this judgement done? Is it the GWT?
Matthew 25:31-46 says that everyone is gathered at the same time and then judged.
“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 
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Douggg

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Once again you are adding your extra view to the text.
Read the story about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. They were aware of their existence after they died.


OK. So, if they are separated, then that must mean that there was a judgement made to say weather they went to heaven or hades.
No, it means that persons saved by believing in Jesus's death and resurrection for atonement of their sins go to heaven. And persons who don't believe in Jesus go to hades.
 
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keras

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keras, your scenarios does not work on a multitude of levels.
Your confusion and errors are legendary.
The gathering of the faithful Christian people into ALL of the Holy Land, my estimate ; about 1 million, will happen soon after the Lords Day of fiery wrath - the Sixth Seal event.
Read Psalms 107, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Jeremiah 31, Zechariah 8:1-8, + for how they get there.
Read the story about Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. They were aware of the existence after they died.
This shows how easily you are sucked in by fables.
That story is a homily, told to warn everyone that this life is our one chance to get right with God.
 
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Douggg

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The gathering of the faithful Christian people into ALL of the Holy Land, my estimate ; about 1 million, will happen soon after the Lords Day of fiery wrath - the Sixth Seal event.
1 million is what percentage of 2.5 billion ?

Also, what denomination or preachers are teaching a solar event to depopulate Israel and a replacement nation of Christians ?
 
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keras

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1 million is what percentage of 2.5 billion ?
The citizens of the new nation of Beulah, will be only those people who pass the fiery test. 1 Peter 4:12. Romans 1:18
Many who though they were good people, will not have the courage and sufficient faith to trust the Lord to protect them. Especially those who fondly imagined God would rapture them.
Also, what denomination or preachers are teaching a solar event to depopulate Israel and a replacement nation of Christians ?
Preachers are not silly, if they preached worldwide disaster, they would lose their tenure. There are a few who do believe in some kind of dramatic event to commence the end times, but they keep quiet about it.
It is secular people who warn about the high probability of a Coronal Mass Ejection which would destroy our modern infrastructure and kill billions.

Revelation 12:17 is positive proof of Christians being the people in the holy Land.
 
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keras

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'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation' Quote Douggg.

As you not only believe and teach false theories, but consign those who disagree with you to severe tribulation, whatever you say is coloured by wrong theories and cannot be trusted.

The issue is: Do Christians get taken to heaven when disaster strikes? Or do Christians stay on earth; fulfilling the Great Commission?
 
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Douggg

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Revelation 12:17 is positive proof of Christians being the people in the holy Land.
The Jews (currently unbelievers) become Christians in Revelation 12:10

Current Christians already have salvation in Christ - so Revelation 12:10 is not referring to them.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 
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keras

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The Jews (currently unbelievers) become Christians in Revelation 12:10
Apart from the fact of only a remnant of the Jews will survive, the people in the Holy Land must be Christians BEFORE Satan is thrown out of heaven. Proved by how half are taken to a place of safety -Rev 12:14 and half must remain- Rev 12:17
The idea they convert after Satan performs the desecration in the Temple, cannot be right.

No retraction or apology for telling me I will go thru the Great Tribulation yet?
 
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Douggg

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Apart from the fact of only a remnant of the Jews will survive, the people in the Holy Land must be Christians BEFORE Satan is thrown out of heaven. Proved by how half are taken to a place of safety -Rev 12:14 and half must remain- Rev 12:17
The idea they convert after Satan performs the desecration in the Temple, cannot be right.
There is not going to be a solar event that depopulates the current nation of Israel.

The Jews will turn to Jesus when the Antichrist commits the ToD act described in 2Thessalonians2:4, revealing himself as the man of sin and not the messiah. The Jews turning to Jesus at that point will be in large part due to the two witnesses who will be testifying about Jesus and warning them about the Antichrist being a false messiah.

Ithe two witnesses activities.jpg
 
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Douggg

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No retraction or apology for telling me I will go thru the Great Tribulation yet?
I haven't heard any retraction from you regarding the resurrection/rapture to heaven yet. Nor of the rapture being the means of escape from having to go through the great tribulation.

Christians holding the pre-trib (pre-70th week) rapture timing view and the anytime rapture view (pre-ToD act) view I hold, both hold the position that persons not taken in the rapture will go through the great tribulation.

Anyone outspoken against the rapture is not going to be taken in the rapture because of their attempt to influence others not to believe as well. You can change your mind and retract from your position, and thus be taken in the rapture. Or you can continue on your same path, as others who are outspoken on the matter. Your choice of what you believe is in your hands, not mine.
 
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keras

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There is not going to be a solar event that depopulates the current nation of Israel.
You fail to read and understand the Prophetic Word:-

The Lords fiery judgement on the Middle East:
Isaiah 29:1-2 Woe to you Ariel! Ariel, the city where David settled. The years roll on and you carry out your festivals. Yet, I shall reduce Ariel to dire straits. There will be suffering and sorrow, when I make her My fire altar.
Ariel – is a pun on the Hebrew word, ‘har’el’ = the Temple burnt offering altar. In this prophecy, it refers to Jerusalem and all the State of Israel. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:1-14, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14

Isaiah 29:3-4 I will encompass you and besiege you with the visitation of My fiery judgement. You will be brought low, you will hide underground, your voice will whisper out of the earth. The survivors in Jerusalem will shelter in underground bunkers. Isaiah 31:5, Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 37:31-32
The Lord’s judgement/punishment of the nations, by fire from God’s storehouse, Deuteronomy 32:22,34-35,41-43, will be an explosion on the suns surface, Isaiah 30:26a, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17
Joel 2:1-11 Sound the alarm! For the Day of the Lord’s wrath is coming. As the sun rises, a vast host will appear, the like has never been known. It advances in a devouring fire, behind is a leaping flame that leaves a desolate wasteland. Nothing can escape it, nothing can stop it and as it strikes, the earth quakes and the heavens thunder. Who can survive that dark and terrible Day?

Isaiah 29:5-8 But, your enemies will become like dust, those ruthless hordes, like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come from the Lord Almighty, with earthquakes, thunder, storms and a blaze of devouring fire. All the nations warring against Mt Zion, will vanish, as a dream, like one who is hungry or thirsty; then wakes to find himself empty, so it will be with all those nations attacking Israel. Malachi 4:3

The fire judgement on the Middle East, striking ‘in an instant’, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection: a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude and is the next prophesied event we can expect, it is the Day that will ‘come as a thief’, sudden and unexpectedly. Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 10:17 It is quite a different event to what is described about the attack and destruction of Gog or of Armageddon, both to come later, respectively.
Psalm 83:13-18, Isaiah 34:5, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 30, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18,

The regeneration of the Middle East: Isaiah 35, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15
Isaiah 29:17-21 In a very short time, the Land will be made prosperous again. On that Day, the deaf will hear and the blind will see and the lowly and poor will exult in the Holy One of Israel. The ruthless and evil peoples will be gone, all who practice falsehood will be cut down. Isaiah 66:12-17, Psalms 107:1-43, Jeremiah 33:12-13

Isaiah 29:22-23 Therefore, these are the words of the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, about the House of Jacob: [now: every true Christian believer] This is no time for you to be ashamed, no time to be frightened, for his descendants will praise My Name, when they see what I have done for them. They will stand in awe of the Holy God of Israel. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses condensed.

Christian Israelites, all those whose names are written in the Book, Malachi 3:16-18, be they descendants of Jacob or grafted in, will be gathered into the Land, ”in a very short time” after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath against the nations Ezekiel 20: 34-38, Isaiah 11:11-12, Jeremiah 30:18-24, Rev 7:9 Ref: logostelos.info
 
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