The sequence of events

1Tonne · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
resurrection/rapture event is in the message to the church in Philadelphia...

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 3:10 does not teach a resurrection or rapture event. It is a promise of God’s protection through trials, not removal from the earth. The phrase “keep you from the hour of temptation” refers to spiritual preservation, as the church in Philadelphia was faithful and would not fall into ultimate judgment, not physical evacuation.
Scripture consistently shows that believers can endure trials and remain faithful without being removed (Acts 14:22; 2 Thess 1:4–5). Reading a pre-tribulation rapture into Revelation 3:10 is eisegesis, adding a theological system that the text itself never states.

1Tonne · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

What did you think of the explanation I gave for Matthew 24?

Douggg · Jan 3, 2026

1Tonne said:
What did you think of the explanation I gave for Matthew 24?

Your post #37, your explanation for Matthew 24:38-39.

What I think of your explanation.....

No, not judgement, but death by evil men of the world demanding worship of the beast and the image of him.

The two men in the field and two women grinding is not a referral to taken in the rapture, because the same terms are used in Luke 17:34-36. And when questioned "taken where" , in Luke 17:37, Jesus said.... Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. i.e. to feast on the dead bodies.

The false prophet is going to periodically round up persons living in Judea and drag them to the temple mount to worship the AoD statue image of the beast king. Anyone refusing to worship it, will be subject to being put to death.

Therefore, Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21, for anyone living in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the AoD standing in a holy place (the temple mount).

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To avoid that time of the great tribulation all together, Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. A referral to the resurrection/rapture event.

Same message as in Luke 21:34-36.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Not only that, but Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree of what generation that should be watching. In Luke 21:29-33.

You are living in that generation.

1Tonne · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
Your post #37, your explanation for Matthew 24:38-39.

What I think of your explanation.....

No, not judgement, but death by evil men of the world demanding worship of the beast and the image of him.

The two men in field and two women grinding is not a referral to taken in the rapture, because the same terms are used in Luke 17:34-36. And when questioned "taken where" , in Luke 17:37, Jesus said.... Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. i.e. to feast on the dead bodies.

The false prophet is going to periodically round up persons living in Judea and drag them to the temple mount to worship the AoD statue image of the beast king. Anyone refusing to worship it, will be subject to being put to death.

Therefore, Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-21, for anyone living in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the AoD standing in a holy place (the temple mount).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To avoid that time of the great tribulation all together, Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. A referral to the resurrection/rapture event.

Same message as in Luke 21:34-36.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Not only that, but Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree of what generation that should be watching. In Luke 21:29-33.

You are living in that generation.

I actually agree with you on an important point:
In Matthew 24 and Luke 17, the ones who are “taken” are taken to death, not rescued. Luke 17:37 makes that explicit, “where the body is, there the vultures will gather.” That supports my point that “taken” does not mean rapture.

Where we still differ is the next step. Jesus’ repeated command to “watch” (Matt 24:42; Luke 21:36) does not introduce a resurrection/rapture event. In context, “watching” means remaining faithful, alert, and obedient so believers are not caught unprepared when persecution and judgment intensify.
In Matthew 24:15–21, watching results in fleeing, not being removed. In Luke 21, watching results in being able to stand before the Son of Man, not escaping the earth. The text never says watching leads to being taken to heaven.
The fig tree parable identifies the generation that will see these events, but it does not add a separate coming of Christ prior to tribulation. Jesus consistently places His visible return after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31).

So, while we agree that the “taken” language refers to death at the hands of evil men, the idea that believers avoid that entire period by a prior resurrection/rapture is still an assumption the text never states.

Douggg · Jan 3, 2026

1Tonne said:
In Matthew 24:15–21, watching results in fleeing, not being removed. In Luke 21, watching results in being able to stand before the Son of Man, not escaping the earth. The text never says watching leads to being taken to heaven.

Watching means being aware of the times and expectation of the resurrection/rapture to take place.

Christians taken in the resurrection/rapture return with Christ, as His bride, and as the armies of heaven. Not only will Jesus be returning with His bride, but also the angels from heaven with accompany Him.

keras · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
You left off....all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

everyone on the whole earth.

To escape means leaving this earth, not be here, by the rapture to heaven.

Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation.

Same goes for @1Tonne.

Everyone on the whole earth; means exactly what it says. No one 'escapes' the Lords Day of wrath*.

The consignment of rapture deniers to the Great Tribulation by rapture believers, is a shocking and very un-Christian denouncement. Be assured; such a serious accusation against fellow Christians will not be passed over at the Judgment.

* It is the Lords terrible Day of fiery wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that Jesus referred to. The GT comes later and Gods faithful people will be rescued from that. Revelation 12:14

Douggg said:
No, the 1989 REB translation is wrong.

The word 'escape in verse 36; if considered to mean removal - must be wrong, as to think that; is a direct contradiction of verse 35.

Do not think because everyone you know, the majority of Christians do believe they will be raptured, it must be true. Daniel 12:10b is clear: Only a few wise people will understand.

1Tonne · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
Watching means being aware of the times and expectation of the resurrection/rapture to take place.

Christians taken in the resurrection/rapture return with Christ, as His bride, and as the armies of heaven. Not only will Jesus be returning with His bride, but also the angels from heaven with accompany Him.

View attachment 374922

“Watching” in Jesus’ teaching is never defined as waiting for a resurrection/rapture event. In Matthew 24 and Luke 21, watching means being spiritually alert, faithful, and obedient in the face of deception, persecution, and danger, so that believers are not caught unprepared.

In the same context, watching leads to fleeing (Matt 24:15–18), enduring (Matt 24:13), and standing before the Son of Man (Luke 21:36), not being removed from the earth. The text never says watching results in a resurrection/rapture.
The claim that Christians are taken earlier, then return with Christ as His Bride and armies, is not stated in these passages. Revelation 19 shows Christ returning with the armies of heaven and His Bride, but it does not explain when or how they came to be there. Reading a prior resurrection/rapture into that scene is an inference, not an explicit teaching.

Angels accompanying Christ at His return is clearly stated; a prior resurrection/rapture of believers before tribulation is not.

Douggg · Jan 3, 2026

keras said:
Do not think because everyone you know, the majority of Christians do believe they will be raptured, it must be true. Daniel 12:10b is clear: Only a few wise people will understand.

Daniel 12:10 does not say only a few. You are adding "a few" to the verse.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Douggg · Jan 3, 2026

1Tonne said:
Watching” in Jesus’ teaching is never defined as waiting for a resurrection/rapture event.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

1Tonne · Jan 3, 2026

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

In Matthew 24:42–44, the thief imagery explains suddenness and unexpected timing, not a resurrection/rapture. Jesus’ point is that His coming will be unexpected, so His followers must be spiritually ready at all times.
The illustration does not say the household is removed before the thief arrives; it says vigilance prevents being caught off guard. That fits the whole chapter, where readiness means endurance, obedience, and responding rightly to danger (Matt 24:13–18), not evacuation.
Nothing in this passage defines “watching” as waiting for a rapture. It defines watching as faithful readiness because the Son of Man comes unexpectedly, just as Jesus later says He comes after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31).

Interpreting this passage as a resurrection/rapture is a serious misreading of the text. Turning the thief imagery into a rapture doctrine ignores the immediate context, reverses Jesus’ own warnings about fleeing and endurance, and imposes a theological framework onto the passage that Jesus Himself never states. That is not exegesis; it is reading a system into the text rather than allowing the text to define its own meaning.

This interpretation depends on personal assumptions the passage does not support. You are reading into it.

Douggg · Jan 3, 2026

1Tonne said:
Nothing in this passage defines “watching” as waiting for a rapture. It defines watching as faithful readiness because the Son of Man comes unexpectedly, just as Jesus later says He comes after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31).

Jesus's return to this earth, coming in power and great glory Matthew 24:30b, will be preceded by the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven Matthew 24:30a. The sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven will be unexpected by the unsaved persons of the world.

keras · Jan 4, 2026

Douggg said:
Daniel 12:10 does not say only a few. You are adding "a few" to the verse.

As not even rapture believers can come to agreement, there can only be a few who will actually understand Gods plans for His people.
Just about everyone who looks at the Prophesies, has their own opinions and beliefs.

@Douggg said: 'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation'
This foul and nasty statement requires a retraction, or any credibility you may have had, has gone. People know by now not to take much notice of your charts and your silly 'anytime rapture'.
Read and comprehend James 4:11-12

Douggg · Jan 4, 2026

keras said:
@Douggg said: 'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation'
This foul and nasty statement requires a retraction, or any credibility you may have had, has gone. People know by now not to take much notice of your charts and your silly 'anytime rapture'.
Read and comprehend James 4:11-12

You can't deny and teach against the rapture to heaven and expect to taken in the rapture. You can't have it both ways, keras.

1Tonne · Jan 4, 2026

Douggg said:
Jesus's return to this earth, coming in power and great glory Matthew 24:30b, will be preceded by the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven Matthew 24:30a. The sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven will be unexpected by the unsaved persons of the world.

The sign of the Son of Man will be unexpected by the unbelieving world. That is exactly Jesus’ point.
But that does not redefine “watching” as waiting for a rapture. In Matthew 24, the ones who are watching are not surprised, because Jesus has just given them specific signs to watch for (vv. 15–33). The surprise applies to the unprepared, not to the faithful.

More importantly, Jesus explicitly places this visible coming of the Son of Man after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31). Nothing in verse 30 introduces an earlier, separate coming or a resurrection/rapture event beforehand.

So while the world is caught off guard, Jesus’ disciples are called to endurance and obedience until His post-tribulational return, not to expectation of removal prior to it.

Douggg said:
You can't deny and teach against the rapture to heaven and expect to taken in the rapture. You can't have it both ways, keras.

I don't think he expects to be taken in an early rapture. He expects to die and then one day be raised with everyone else.

Douggg · Jan 4, 2026

1Tonne said:
More importantly, Jesus explicitly places this visible coming of the Son of Man after the tribulation (Matt 24:29–31). Nothing in verse 30 introduces an earlier, separate coming or a resurrection/rapture event beforehand.

So while the world is caught off guard, Jesus’ disciples are called to endurance and obedience until His post-tribulational return, not to expectation of removal prior to it.

The resurrection/rapture is not in Matthew 24:15-31. Those verses deal primarily with the Jews (Judaism). The Jews (Judaism) will not take part in the resurrection/rapture.

The resurrection/rapture saints will return with Jesus, as His bride.

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

How did Enoch leave this world ? Genesis 5:24, Enoch did not die. The others listed in Genesis 5 died.

keras · Jan 4, 2026

Douggg said:
You can't deny and teach against the rapture to heaven and expect to taken in the rapture. You can't have it both ways, keras.

You are totally incapable of understanding what God has said about our future.
For sure, there will be no rapture removal of anyone to heaven.

I DON'T want to be raptured to heaven! I know there are great and amazing things awaiting all who keep faithful until Jesus Returns.

1Tonne said:
I don't think he expects to be taken in an early rapture. He expects to die and then one day be raised with everyone else.

We are made to live on the earth, God has angels to serve Him in heaven.
Our task is clearly stated in Matthew 28:19-20, and we are clearly told what to do when things get rough; Call upon the Name of the Lord and you shall be saved.

Douggg · Jan 4, 2026

keras said:
You are totally incapable of understanding what God has said about our future.
For sure, there will be no rapture removal of anyone to heaven.

John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Resurrection/Rapture to heaven.

Douggg · Jan 4, 2026

keras said:
I DON'T want to be raptured to heaven! I know there are great and amazing things awaiting all who keep faithful until Jesus Returns.

And when do you expect to receive your eternal, incorruptible body ? When Jesus returns, or a thousand years later at the GWT judgment ?

keras · Jan 4, 2026

Douggg said:
John 14:
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Resurrection/Rapture to heaven.

To believe this Promise means a 'rapture to heaven', just shows how deceived and deluded some people are.
The Bible plainly says in Revelation 21, when the Fathers House will come to His peoples.

I am awaiting a retraction and an apology for your unchristian accusation:
'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation' Quote Douggg.
I should have reported you for that.

Douggg said:
And when do you expect to receive your eternal, incorruptible body ? When Jesus returns, or a thousand years later at the GWT judgment ?

Of course; after the Millennium. Even the raised GT martyrs may die again, but their second death doesn't affect their eventual receipt of immortality. Rev 20:5-6
ONLY at the GWT Judgment, Rev 20:11-15, is anyone given immortality. On the LAST DAY, as Job, Martha and Jesus tell us.

The whole idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a pretentious theory, a selfish dream and is just escapist avoidance of the testing times that must come before Jesus Returns. Those who grip onto it, will be asked why they believed it.

Douggg · Jan 4, 2026

keras said:
'Since you deny and teach against the rapture to heaven, you will experience the great tribulation' Quote Douggg.

So do you think you will die before the great tribulation starts ? I don't understand your rationale. You say no escape to heaven via the rapture to keep from having to go through the great tribulation. Yet you don't think you will have to experience the great tribulation that will affect everyone on earth.

The great tribulation will affect everyone on earth. And if not limited in length, i.e. cut short of all life on earth ending Matthew 24:22, everyone alive on earth at that time will end up dying during it.

The parable of the fig tree indicates that Jesus will return not later than the end of 2037. So subtracting 7 years from 2037 =2030. The 70th week will begin not later than end of of 2030.

And since the Gog/Magog event will take place right before the 70th week begins and it now 2026, there is not much time left.

It will not be long before the person who becomes the Antichrist will be revealed as the little horn person over a group of ten EU leaders.

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The sequence of events

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Well-Known Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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