Asking AI to explain Sunday observance when NT has no such command

BobRyan said:

Christ said in Matt 7 not to judge others.

The rule was the same before the cross , as afterwards.

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No He said don’t be hypocrites. He said remove the beam from your own eye then you will see clearly enough to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. What do you think removing the speck means? In that same chapter He also said you will know them by their fruits. Is that not judging someone by their actions? And then you have the entire chapter of 2 Corinthians 5.

BobRyan said:

The idea that the saints wont be doing anything but spending time in corporate worship

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I never stated that. But I posted a verse that states God will actually be dwelling with us. No need to set out only one single day devoted to him. Or even now actually with us abiding in him and vice versa. That's the continued rest we seek and need. And it won't be about days or time for that matter. It's about spending the eternity with him and he with us.

But I realize we will be living our lives in the eternity but the difference is he will be with us.

JulieB67 said:

I never stated that. But I posted a verse that states God will actually be dwelling with us. No need to set out only one single day devoted to him. Or even now actually with us abiding in him and vice versa. That's the continued rest we seek and need.

But I realize we will be living our lives in the eternity but the difference is he will be with us.

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Of course God will be dwelling with the saints, I dwell with my husband, but I am not before Him 24/7.

I think people have a misconception that people who keep the Sabbath don't read the Bible, pray or spend anytime with God except on the Sabbath and this is definitely not true from the people I know personally. We should worship God 24/7/365 but in addition to that God's saints keep God's commandments Rev14:12 they way He said because He is our God and we are to be His people Eze20:20.

Jesus relates false worship to laying aside the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments. Mark 7:7-13 Mat15:3-14 and how we know Him or not 1 John2:3-4 So worship is something we do daily but in addition, are also keeping the commandments of God. Jesus said why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say? Luke6:46-49 its more than just believing in Him, its also having the faith of Jesus, which we see through His life, what He taught, how He lived who is our example to follow. 1John2:6

SabbathBlessings said:

I know but the Scripture say coming before the Lord. The Bible already showed the saints will not be coming before the Lord 24/7 as they would be working. You're still trying to remove the Sabbath from this passage when God did not. Lets let God be God, He knows what He is doing and makes no mistakes.

I think we are at an impasse, all will get sorted out soon enough.

Be well.

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No I’m interpreting the passage in light of Colossians 2:16 which is just as much the word of God as any other passage in the scriptures.

SabbathBlessings said:

Of course God will be dwelling with the saints, I dwell with my husband, but I am not before Him 24/7.

I think people have a misconception that people who keep the Sabbath don't read the Bible, pray or spend anytime with God except on the Sabbath and this is definitely not true. We should worship God 24/7 but in addition to that God's saints keep God's commandments Rev14:12 they way He said because He is our God and we are to be His people Eze20:20.

Jesus relates false worship to laying aside the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments. Mark 7:7-13 Maty15:3-14 So worship is something we do daily but in addition, are also keeping the commandments of God.

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Wow even after she said that she never said we would be worshipping 24/7 you’re still trying to shoehorn that into both her’s and my theology when we’ve both stated that is not our position.

BNR32FAN said:

Wow even after she said that she never said we would be worshipping 24/7 you’re still trying to shoehorn that into both her’s and my theology when we’ve both stated that is not our position.

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I was clarifying the different types of worship. But in actuality seems like perhaps what you just accused me of is what one is trying to do to God. Remove the Sabbath from the verse as if its not there.

BNR32FAN said:

No I’m interpreting the passage in light of Colossians 2:16 which is just as much the word of God as any other passage in the scriptures.

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You're isolating one text that has multiple meanings and closing your eyes to all the context Paul gave.

SabbathBlessings said:

You're isolating one text that has multiple meanings and closing your eyes to all the context Paul gave.

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What context am I closing my eyes to exactly?

BNR32FAN said:

What context am I closing my eyes to exactly?

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Happy New Year and I hope you have a blessed new year.

There is a lot of context Paul gives us in this passage. There is so much more that I could have touched on but was trying to keep it as short as possible.

There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.

There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13

There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.

• 1st day of Unleavened Bread
• 7th day of Unleavened Bread
• Pentecost
• Trumpets
• Day of Atonement
• 1st day of Tabernacles
• 8th day of Tabernacles

We see these in Leviticus 23 and these are additional feasts besides the Sabbath of the Lord- the seventh day Sabbath Lev 23:37-38

There is the Day of Atonement Sabbath where fasting is required Lev16:31 Lev 23:27-32
There is the seventh year Sabbath that is every 7th year where the land should rest Lev25:1-7
The Jubilee Sabbath (50th) year Lev 25:8-17


So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.

Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand

Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”

It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.

Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?

2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

What law is the law that was contrary and against?

Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.


This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.

Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)

Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.


What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)


Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ

What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23

SabbathBlessings said:

Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

Col 2:14 NASB having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand

Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”

It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.

Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.

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Paul says the exact same thing about the 10 commandments in 2 Corinthians 3 like I’ve been pointing out several times during this discussion. So why would we eliminate the 10 commandments from this if he specifically said the same thing about the handwritten ordinances AND the 10 commandments?

“You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN said:

Paul says the exact same thing about the 10 commandments in 2 Corinthians 3 like I’ve been pointing out several times during this discussion. So why would we eliminate the 10 commandments from this if he specifically said the same thing about the handwritten ordinances AND the 10 commandments?

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So no comment on Col 2:16 and the context? I am okay instead just going on to the next argument.

BNR32FAN said:

“You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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If looking carefully at this context you will see the law went from tablets of stone (the only law being spoken of- the Ten Commandments) but tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3, not being deleted as God already promised Isa 42:21 Psa89:34 Mat5:19-30 which is what the NC is God's laws now written in the heart Heb8:10 What changed is the ministry of the law from Moses to Jesus. I can go through this verse by verse if you would like.

Paul never got rid of the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God- written personally by the Spirit of the living God, he plainly said it was sin to break Rom7:7 it dishonors God Rom2:21-23 and makes one an enmity to God Rom8:7-8 why he promoted keeping them is what matters 1Cor7:19

SabbathBlessings said:

2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

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Why didn’t you highlight the phrase “according to the WHOLE LAW”? Does the WHOLE LAW not include the 10 commandments?

SabbathBlessings said:

So no comment on Col 2:16 and the context? I am okay instead just going on to the next argument.

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What are you talking about? I literally quoted the context you were explaining about Colossians 2:14-16. In your explanation of the context of Colossians 2:14-16 you pointed out that Paul was talking about the decrees that were against us and I’m quoting where Paul included the 10 commandments as part of those decrees that were against us.

SabbathBlessings said:

If looking carefully at this context you will see the law went from tablets of stone (the only law being spoken of- the Ten Commandments) but tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3, not being deleted as God already promised Isa 42:21 Psa89:34 Mat5:19-30 which is what the NC is God's laws now written in the heart Heb8:10 What changed is the ministry of the law from Moses to Jesus. I can go through this verse by verse if you would like.

Paul never got rid of the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God- written personally by the Spirit of the living God, he plainly said it was sin to break Rom7:7 it dishonors God Rom2:21-23 and makes one an enmity to God Rom8:7-8 why he promoted keeping them is what matters 1Cor7:19

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He didn’t say that the 10 commandments were written on our hearts. It doesn’t say that anywhere. I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not but only about 2% of Christians observe the sabbath. So apparently the 4th commandment isn’t written on the hearts of Christians.

BNR32FAN said:

Why didn’t you highlight the phrase “according to the WHOLE LAW”? Does the WHOLE LAW not include the 10 commandments?

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Lets look at what the Bible says is the whole law.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments is the "whole" law of God inside the ark of the Lord and Moses wrote another whole law beside the ark of the Lord, the law of Moses. In the Ten Commandments God added no more- Moses recorded this, it is the whole law of God, do we really know better?


2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

And means in addition, there there is the whole law of God that God Himself commanded them and the statues and ordinances that were written by the hand of Moses.

James 2:10-12 is verbatim only quoting and contrasting the whole law of the Ten Commandments.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

You can find the rest of what "He said" in the Ten Commandments, the whole law of God, God's Testimony what is under His mercy seat. Exo20:1-17

BNR32FAN said:

He didn’t say that the 10 commandments were written on our hearts. It doesn’t say that anywhere. I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not but only about 2% of Christians observe the sabbath. So apparently the 4th commandment isn’t written on the hearts of Christians.

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Sure it does 2Cor3:3 which law is the only law being spoken of? Written on stone- only the Ten Commandments Exo31:18 and where did it go- tablets of the heart. God's laws written in the heart. Who defines God's laws- He or us? Only God and He did, both personally written by Him and spoken by Him and there is no one greater than He. He called it His Testimony Exo31:18 and sad just far man has gone would rather get rid of the Ten Commandments- how to love God and love man Deut6:5 Rom13:9 because of one of them - the one God said is a sign between God and His people Eze20:20 the sign of His sanctification Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves.

I provided context, of these passage, I am to agree to disagree and will get sorted out in God's time.

SabbathBlessings said:

So no comment on Col 2:16 and the context? I am okay instead just going on to the next argument.

If looking carefully at this context you will see the law went from tablets of stone (the only law being spoken of- the Ten Commandments) but tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3, not being deleted as God already promised Isa 42:21 Psa89:34 Mat5:19-30 which is what the NC is God's laws now written in the heart Heb8:10 What changed is the ministry of the law from Moses to Jesus. I can go through this verse by verse if you would like.

Paul never got rid of the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God- written personally by the Spirit of the living God, he plainly said it was sin to break Rom7:7 it dishonors God Rom2:21-23 and makes one an enmity to God Rom8:7-8 why he promoted keeping them is what matters 1Cor7:19

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Why do you think the 10 commandment's being written in stone is so significant?

BNR32FAN said:

Why do you think the 10 commandment's being written in stone is so significant?

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Why would one think what God Himself wrote, the Spirit of the living God that He claimed as His, that sits under His mercy seat and in the Most Holy of His Temple and in heaven, not important? That He said those who love Him and keep His commandments He shows mercy to Exo20:6

Moses wrote on paper with ink as paper fades, stone does not. Jesus is the Rock, its a permeant surface.

BobRyan said:

First question to AI:

Using strict rules, “Is there any NT text that calls for weekly Sunday worship, or is the only explicit weekly pattern that of Sabbath preaching in Acts 18:4?”​

(AI confirms that there is no command to observe week-day-1 as a day of worshiip/rest etc)

Second Question to AI

Using strict rules, Given that we see not one new testament text saying that Sunday is the Lord’s day and not one text saying that the New Testament church met very Sunday for communion or for worship and not one statement that the term Sabbath is applied to Sunday, how do we get to the point today where the common view is that the new testament says Sunday is the Lord's day, they met every Sunday for gospel preaching and worship. ?​

​

​

• Conclusion
• 1 Corinthians 16:2 is not describing a Sunday worship gathering. It is Paul’s instruction for each believer to privately set aside money at home on the first day of the week, so that when he came, the collection would already be prepared.

====

Q: is there a meeting described in 1 Cor 16 for week day 1
A: No

Q: So then it would be incorrect to list 1 Cor 16 as an example of gathering on the first day of the week for worship or to remember the resurrection

A: That’s correct — it would be incorrect to use 1 Corinthians 16:2 as an example of believers gathering for worship or to commemorate the resurrection on the first day of the week.

Why?

• The Greek wording “par’ heautō” (translated “lay by him in store”) means each person privately, by himself, at home.
• Paul’s instruction was about setting aside money individually so that when he arrived, the collection would already be prepared.
• There is no mention of a worship service, communal gathering, or resurrection remembrance in this passage.
• “Lay by him in store” — The Greek phrase (par’ heautō) literally means “by himself” or “at home.”
  • This suggests Paul was instructing each believer to set aside money privately, not to bring it to a public meeting.
• Purpose: Paul wanted the funds ready when he arrived, so there would be no need for hurried collections.
• Not a Worship Gathering: The verse does not describe a church service or communal worship on Sunday. It is about personal preparation for a future offering.
• Contrast with Acts 20:7: That passage does describe believers gathering on the first day of the week. But 1 Corinthians 16:2 is about individual action, not a meeting.

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I’m sorry, but who goes to AI as a Bible discussion resource or might find it an impressive authority? I even recently saw such a post by one sire monitor! (forget now what they’re called) I’m bowled over with astonishment and dismay and I am totally unimpressed by AI Bible answers! The spiritual evaluated and *discerned* by artificial intelligence!!?? !!! Laughable!
Who cares what AI might come up with regarding the Bible or faith is my attitude… sorry, my opinion

SabbathBlessings said:

Sure it does 2Cor3:3 which law is the only law being spoken of? Written on stone- only the Ten Commandments Exo31:18 and where did it go- tablets of the heart. God's laws written in the heart. Who defines God's laws- He or us? Only God and He did, both personally written by Him and spoken by Him and there is no one greater than He. He called it His Testimony Exo31:18 and sad just far man has gone would rather get rid of the Ten Commandments- how to love God and love man Deut6:5 Rom13:9 because of one of them - the one God said is a sign between God and His people Eze20:20 the sign of His sanctification Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves.

I provided context, of these passage, I am to agree to disagree and will get sorted out in God's time.

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It doesn’t say that at all.

“You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The “You” is referring to the congregation, that is the letter that is written in our hearts. The letter of Christ, not written with ink or stone but written with the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t say anything about the tablets of stone being written in our hearts. The letter of Christ is the law that is more glorious than the law written on stones. The law written on stones was the ministry of death that brought condemnation and that has faded away.

“But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬