Asking AI to explain Sunday observance when NT has no such command

Hentenza said:

But you don’t go by what God says but by your interpretation of scripture. Not the same thing.

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Likewise. :O )

Just like you will not find one Scripture where God Himself calling any day except for the Sabbath as His day in His own words Exo20:10 Isa58:13 Mark2:28- not the day man assigned to God thinking they can speak for Him after He warned us not to Pro30:5-6

SabbathBlessings said:

Likewise. :O )

Just like you will not find one Scripture where God Himself calling any day except for the Sabbath as His day in His own words Exo20:10 Isa58:13 Mark2:28- not the day man assigned to God thinking they can speak for Him after He warned us not to Pro30:5-6

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There is no verse in the NC that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath, therefore, since our rest is in Christ, any day including today, then we can choose what day to rest so no verse is necessary. You are living in the OT.

SabbathBlessings said:

Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments

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No but your argument was that if Paul is saying that we no longer have to observe the Saturday Sabbath in Colossians 2:16 then he would either be overstepping his authority or that Jesus would be contradicting Himself

SabbathBlessings said:

I think this is here for a reason,

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

When we start making the servant greater than the master, which not even Paul said he was. This interpretation would literally make Jesus contradict Himself and God's Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20 be of no value. Paul is not God, but a servant of God and not even Paul did what you claim he is teaching as he faithfully kept every Sabbath decades after the Cross. Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc.

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The commandment for the Passover was for all their generations meaning that it was a perpetual commandment that was to be continuously observed.

“‘Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭12‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God also said the same thing about circumcision

“God said further to Abraham, “Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And yet God saw fit to abolish both of these commandments that you yourself admit that we are no longer obligated to observe and keep without having any problems at all with God changing these commandments even though He specifically said that they were to observe them forever. Saying that they weren’t one of the 10 commandments is irrelevant. The point is that these were commandments of God that He said they must observe forever and even though He changed that you don’t see them as God contradicting Himself or the apostles overstepping their authority in abolishing them.

BNR32FAN said:

No but your argument was that if Paul is saying that we no longer have to observe the Saturday Sabbath in Colossians 2:16 then he would either be overstepping his authority or that Jesus would be contradicting Himself

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Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments, again trying to compare apples and oranges

BNR32FAN said:

The commandment for the Passover was for all their generations meaning that it was a perpetual commandment that was to be continuously observed.

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The Passover is not one of the Ten Commandments, it was an ordinance of Moses.

BNR32FAN said:

“‘Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭12‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

God also said the same thing about circumcision

“God said further to Abraham, “Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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That's right both are not in the Ten Commandments and both came after sin, both were fulfilled in Christ.

Circumcision was what separated people from gaining access to the earthy sanctuary system for the forgiveness of sins.

Circumcision or the Passover, was never given to all mankind in the OT, it was given to Abraham's descendants, that Gentiles could get grafted in and access to the earthy temple by circumcision. The Sabbath was directly given to all mankind Mark2:27 Exo20:11, it came before sin, circumcision, the Passover or other annual feasts days was not, came after and it served a different purpose. The earthy temple was destroyed, we do not need to be circumcised to gain forgiveness of our sins, Jesus took down that wall of separation, which has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath that continues on decades and decades after His Cross.

The Passover came with animal sacrifices and Jesus put an end to all animal sacrifices and offerings though His blood. He literally became our Passover Lamb 1 Corinthians 5:7

This is what Paul is referring to on Col 2:14-16 which you still have yet to address the Scriptures posted which is what Jesus said He came to end Dan9:27

BNR32FAN said:

And yet God saw fit to abolish both of these commandments that you yourself admit that we are no longer obligated to observe and keep without having any problems at all with God changing these commandments even though He specifically said that they were to observe them forever. Saying that they weren’t one of the 10 commandments is irrelevant. The point is that these were commandments of God that He said they must observe forever and even though He changed that you don’t see them as God contradicting Himself or the apostles overstepping their authority in abolishing them.

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No its not irrelevant, what God wrote Himself, His own written and spoken Testimony written by the Holy Spirit is not irrelevant, that Paul called, holy, just and good Rom 7:12, when does only worshipping our Creator become irrelevant God's Law will never be irrelevant to God's people or to God, why only the Ten Commandments sits under His mercy seat Exo25:21, not the law of Moses that contained the ordinances, circumcision, yearly sabbath(s) feast days and Passover. One is what describes what sin is, the other was given as a prescription to sin until the Seed came.

Where did Jesus in His own words say we should keep the feast days after His death? Where as Jesus in His own words said the Sabbath would not end at His cross Mat24:20-30 or ever Isa66:23. Paul does not have the authority to speak over Christ and either do we Pro30:5-6

SabbathBlessings said:

Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 the Testimony of God Exo31:18, either is Passover, both of these came after sin and served a purpose. The Sabbath came before sin Exo20:11 and was always part of God's perfect plan. You are comparing apples to oranges and not allowing the context of the Bible to explain itself.

So instead of actually addressing the Scriptures in context, just went on to the next agreement.

Weird that you left out the verse that shows where the law of stone went.

2 Cor 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God

ink is what man wrote on parchment, the Ten Commandments was written by the Spirit of the living God Exo31:18 Luke 11:20, Mat12:28

not on tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

And it tells us where the Ten Commandments went, tablets of the heart the New Covenant Heb8:10

The location changed, not God's laws as He promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 because you can't make what the Holy Spirit of Truth wrote more perfect, but God can help us keep them through His ministration Jphn14:15-18, if we do not rebel. Sadly, many refuse to allow God to write His laws in their hearts Rom8:7-8

Not in Scripture. But if you wish to believe that we can break God's Holy Law, that can be between you and He. Not something He says His faithful do. Rev 14:12 Rev 12:17 Rev22:14

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He clearly referred to the LETTER OF THE LAW ENGRAVED ON STONES as the ministry of death.

“But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Obviously the commandment of the Sabbath is NOT written on every Christian’s heart, although I would say that the other 9 commandments are.

SabbathBlessings said:

Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments, again trying to compare apples and oranges

The Passover is not one of the Ten Commandments, it was an ordinance of Moses.


That's right both are not in the Ten Commandments and both came after sin, both were fulfilled in Christ.

Circumcision was what separated people from gaining access to the earthy sanctuary system for the forgiveness of sins.

Circumcision or the Passover, was never given to all mankind in the OT, it was given to Abraham's descendants, that Gentiles could get grafted in and access to the earthy temple by circumcision. The Sabbath was directly given to all mankind Mark2:27 Exo20:11, it came before sin, circumcision, the Passover or other annual feasts days was not, came after and it served a different purpose. The earthy temple was destroyed, we do not need to be circumcised to gain forgiveness of our sins, Jesus took down that wall of separation, which has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath that continues on decades and decades after His Cross.

The Passover came with animal sacrifices and Jesus put an end to all animal sacrifices and offerings though His blood. He literally became our Passover Lamb 1 Corinthians 5:7

This is what Paul is referring to on Col 2:14-16 which you still have yet to address the Scriptures posted which is what Jesus said He came to end Dan9:27

No its not irrelevant, what God wrote Himself, His own written and spoken Testimony written by the Holy Spirit is not irrelevant, that Paul called, holy, just and good Rom 7:12, when does only worshipping our Creator become irrelevant God's Law will never be irrelevant to God's people or to God, why only the Ten Commandments sits under His mercy seat Exo25:21, not the law of Moses that contained the ordinances, circumcision, yearly sabbath(s) feast days and Passover. One is what describes what sin is, the other was given as a prescription to sin until the Seed came.

Where did Jesus in His own words say we should keep the feast days after His death? Where as Jesus in His own words said the Sabbath would not end at His cross Mat24:20-30 or ever Isa66:23. Paul does not have the authority to speak over Christ and either do we Pro30:5-6

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You never addressed the fact that these were both commanded to be never ending.

BNR32FAN said:

He clearly referred to the LETTER OF THE LAW ENGRAVED ON STONES as the ministry of death.

“But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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Yes, as it describes what sin is- the wages of sin is death and still is Rom6:23 if we are not subjecting ourselves to the ministry of the Spirit who is keeping the commandments of God through love and faith John14:15-18.

God's Law went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 if we do not rebel against the law of God but sadly many do Rom8:7-8

BNR32FAN said:

Obviously the commandment of the Sabbath is NOT written on every Christian’s heart, although I would say that the other 9 commandments are.

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Only those who forget what our Father asked us to Remember. There is no such thing as nine commandments, this is an unbiblical number for a reason Deut4:13 Exo34:28 God Himself placed the Ten Commandments together and as a unit collectively called it His Word. who are we to alter God's commandments and Testimony written by the Holy Spirit. Exo31:18 Isa8:20 to forget the only comamndment God said Remember, that He made holy, sanctified and blessed.

BNR32FAN said:

You never addressed the fact that these were both commanded to be never ending.

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There were ordinances and I addressed it by Scripture, you haven't addressed any Scripture I have provided, just went on to the next argument.

SabbathBlessings said:

No I am denying the interpretation of pitting Paul against what Jesus who is God said about His Sabbath and holy day.

Yes it is making the servant greater than the Master. John13:16 Why we have a salvation warning about Paul's writings that many would twist to their own destruction in the inspired word of God.

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So my interpretation of Colossians 2:16 will result in my destruction? Are you saying that if we don’t observe the sabbath we will be condemned to the lake of fire? Because Paul wrote the book of Galatians specifically about this type of mixing grace with obedience to the law in order to be justified by Christ.

BNR32FAN said:

So my interpretation of Colossians 2:16 will result in my destruction? Are you saying that if we don’t observe the sabbath we will be condemned to the lake of fire? Because Paul wrote the book of Galatians specifically about this type of mixing grace with obedience to the law in order to be justified by Christ.

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There is no Scripture that says we can sin without repenting and turning from sin Pro28:13 and be saved. The Sabbath commandment was never isolated from the other 9 commandments, man did this, the beast power we were warned about did this Dan7:25, not God. Exo20:6 Deut 4:13 Exo31:18 Exo25:21 Rev15:5 Rev11:19


Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

While we are saved by grace through faith, obedience to God's commandments is a consequence of faith Rev 14:12 and how we are reconciled Rev22:14 disobedience to God's commandments is still rebellion and sin Heb3:7-19

Many of the Israelites had this same contention against God's Sabbath and did not seek the sanctification God provides though His Sabbath Eze20:12 and it left out an entire generation outside their promised rest.

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Eze 20:15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols

God Himself relates profaning the Sabbath to idol worship, because we are replacing what God said was made for us Mark2:27 to bless Isa56:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12 with the voice of another.

God said He does not change. Does He really love us more than those who came before us? Why we are called not to follow in this same path of disobedience Heb4:6 Heb4:11 as He shows us its the same result.

Isa 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves (reject God's Eze20:12)and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[a]After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall [b]be consumed together,” says the Lord.

Compared to those who subject themselves to God's will

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

God just wants to spend time with us, He loves us and no relationship can sustain working 7 days a week. God blessed and sanctified only the seventh day from the very beginning of time Exo20:11 Gen2:3 to spend holy time with His creation, what could be more important than this? Why He is calling us back to worship this God Rev14:7 our Creator Exo20:11

SabbathBlessings said:

There were ordinances and I addressed it by Scripture, you haven't addressed any Scripture I have provided, just went on to the next argument.

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Do I have to go back and quote all the times that God specifically said “I command you” when He’s telling them to do things that aren’t in the Decalogue? Many of these are also referred to as statutes and ordinances in other passages. I’ve done this before and presented this evidence to you before. Here’s the entire chapter of Numbers 28 where God is COMMANDING the Israelites to observe these ordinances and statutes.

“Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Command the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be careful to present My offering, My food for My offerings by fire, of a soothing aroma to Me, at their appointed time.’ You shall say to them, ‘This is the offering by fire which you shall offer to the Lord: two male lambs one year old without defect as a continual burnt offering every day. You shall offer the one lamb in the morning and the other lamb you shall offer at twilight; also a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil. It is a continual burnt offering which was ordained in Mount Sinai as a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the Lord. Then the drink offering with it shall be a fourth of a hin for each lamb, in the holy place you shall pour out a drink offering of strong drink to the Lord. The other lamb you shall offer at twilight; as the grain offering of the morning and as its drink offering, you shall offer it, an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the Lord. ‘Then on the sabbath day two male lambs one year old without defect, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, and its drink offering: This is the burnt offering of every sabbath in addition to the continual burnt offering and its drink offering. ‘Then at the beginning of each of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the Lord: two bulls and one ram, seven male lambs one year old without defect; and three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, for each bull; and two-tenths of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, for the one ram; and a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering for each lamb, for a burnt offering of a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the Lord. Their drink offerings shall be half a hin of wine for a bull and a third of a hin for the ram and a fourth of a hin for a lamb; this is the burnt offering of each month throughout the months of the year. And one male goat for a sin offering to the Lord; it shall be offered with its drink offering in addition to the continual burnt offering. ‘Then on the fourteenth day of the first month shall be the Lord’s Passover. On the fifteenth day of this month shall be a feast, unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. On the first day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. You shall present an offering by fire, a burnt offering to the Lord: two bulls and one ram and seven male lambs one year old, having them without defect. For their grain offering, you shall offer fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for a bull and two-tenths for the ram. A tenth of an ephah you shall offer for each of the seven lambs; and one male goat for a sin offering to make atonement for you. You shall present these besides the burnt offering of the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. After this manner you shall present daily, for seven days, the food of the offering by fire, of a soothing aroma to the Lord; it shall be presented with its drink offering in addition to the continual burnt offering. On the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. ‘Also on the day of the first fruits, when you present a new grain offering to the Lord in your Feast of Weeks, you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. You shall offer a burnt offering for a soothing aroma to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, seven male lambs one year old; and their grain offering, fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each bull, two-tenths for the one ram, a tenth for each of the seven lambs; also one male goat to make atonement for you. Besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering, you shall present them with their drink offerings. They shall be without defect.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭28‬:‭1‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Are these commandments according to the definition of the Hebrew word mitzvah or are they merely ordinances?

BNR32FAN said:

Do I have to go back and quote all the times that God specifically said “I command you” when He’s telling them to do things that aren’t in the Decalogue? Many of these are also referred to as statutes and ordinances in other passages. I’ve done this before and presented this evidence to you before. Here’s the entire chapter of Numbers 28 where God is COMMANDING the Israelites to observe these ordinances and statutes.

“Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Command the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be careful to present My offering, My food for My offerings by fire, of a soothing aroma to Me, at their appointed time.’ You shall say to them, ‘This is the offering by fire which you shall offer to the Lord: two male lambs one year old without defect as a continual burnt offering every day. You shall offer the one lamb in the morning and the other lamb you shall offer at twilight; also a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a grain offering, mixed with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil. It is a continual burnt offering which was ordained in Mount Sinai as a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the Lord. Then the drink offering with it shall be a fourth of a hin for each lamb, in the holy place you shall pour out a drink offering of strong drink to the Lord. The other lamb you shall offer at twilight; as the grain offering of the morning and as its drink offering, you shall offer it, an offering by fire, a soothing aroma to the Lord. ‘Then on the sabbath day two male lambs one year old without defect, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, and its drink offering: This is the burnt offering of every sabbath in addition to the continual burnt offering and its drink offering. ‘Then at the beginning of each of your months you shall present a burnt offering to the Lord: two bulls and one ram, seven male lambs one year old without defect; and three-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, for each bull; and two-tenths of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering, for the one ram; and a tenth of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil for a grain offering for each lamb, for a burnt offering of a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the Lord. Their drink offerings shall be half a hin of wine for a bull and a third of a hin for the ram and a fourth of a hin for a lamb; this is the burnt offering of each month throughout the months of the year. And one male goat for a sin offering to the Lord; it shall be offered with its drink offering in addition to the continual burnt offering. ‘Then on the fourteenth day of the first month shall be the Lord’s Passover. On the fifteenth day of this month shall be a feast, unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. On the first day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. You shall present an offering by fire, a burnt offering to the Lord: two bulls and one ram and seven male lambs one year old, having them without defect. For their grain offering, you shall offer fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for a bull and two-tenths for the ram. A tenth of an ephah you shall offer for each of the seven lambs; and one male goat for a sin offering to make atonement for you. You shall present these besides the burnt offering of the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. After this manner you shall present daily, for seven days, the food of the offering by fire, of a soothing aroma to the Lord; it shall be presented with its drink offering in addition to the continual burnt offering. On the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. ‘Also on the day of the first fruits, when you present a new grain offering to the Lord in your Feast of Weeks, you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no laborious work. You shall offer a burnt offering for a soothing aroma to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, seven male lambs one year old; and their grain offering, fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each bull, two-tenths for the one ram, a tenth for each of the seven lambs; also one male goat to make atonement for you. Besides the continual burnt offering and its grain offering, you shall present them with their drink offerings. They shall be without defect.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭28‬:‭1‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Are these commandments according to the definition of the word or are they merely ordinances?

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Of course, there are other commandments, statues, laws and ordinances that God gave to Moses aside from the Ten Commandments, called the law of Moses, that Moses handwrote on paper in a book, placed besides the ark of Gods covenant Deut 31:24-26 only the Ten Commandments was placed inside God's ark Exo 40:20 under His mercy seat Exo25:21, they are a standalone unit written by God Himself Exo31:18 Deut5:22


God put an end to animal sacrifices and offerings as predicted Dan9:27 Heb10:1-15 which has already been addressed.

SabbathBlessings said:

There is no Scripture that says we can sin without repenting and turning from sin Pro28:13 and be saved. The Sabbath commandment was never isolated from the other 9 commandments, man did this, the beast power we were warned about did this Dan7:25, not God. Exo20:6 Deut 4:13 Exo31:18 Exo25:21 Rev15:5 Rev11:19


Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

While we are saved by grace through faith, obedience to God's commandments is a consequence of faith Rev 14:12 and how we are reconciled Rev22:14 disobedience to God's commandments is still rebellion and sin Heb3:7-19

Many of the Israelites had this same contention against God's Sabbath and did not seek the sanctification God provides though His Sabbath Eze20:12 and it left out an entire generation outside their promised rest.

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Eze 20:15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols

God Himself relates profaning the Sabbath to idol worship, because we are replacing what God said was made for us Mark2:27 to bless Isa56:2 and sanctify us Eze20:12 with the voice of another.

God said He does not change. Does He really love us more than those who came before us? Why we are called not to follow in this same path of disobedience Heb4:6 Heb4:11 as He shows us its the same result.

Isa 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves (reject God's Eze20:12)and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[a]After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall [b]be consumed together,” says the Lord.

Compared to those who subject themselves to God's will

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

God just wants to spend time with us, He loves us and no relationship can sustain working 7 days a week. God blessed and sanctified only the seventh day from the very beginning of time Exo20:11 Gen2:3 to spend holy time with His creation, what could be more important than this? Why He is calling us back to worship this God Rev14:7 our Creator Exo20:11

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Right so we worship Him on Sunday because of a rebellious attitude towards Him? You’re suggesting that we worship on Sunday because we want to worship idols? I highly doubt that 99% of Christians know anything about how to worship idols. Your argument does make any sense since the whole reason Christians worship on Sunday is to glorify CHRIST!! You’re quoting passages that have nothing to do with this situation and ignoring Colossians 2:16 which is specific not only to the Saturday Sabbath but also to food and drink. Colossians 2:16 single handedly pretty much destroys Ellen White’s teachings. The problem is that people get fooled by her teachings because they don’t know the scriptures and once that happens they just don’t want to admit it. Like the saying goes “it’s easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they’ve been fooled”.

SabbathBlessings said:

Of course, there are other commandments, statues, laws and ordinances that God gave to Moses aside from the Ten Commandments, called the law of Moses, that Moses handwrote on paper in a book, placed besides the ark of Gods covenant Deut 31:24-26 only the Ten Commandments was placed inside God's ark Exo 40:20 under His mercy seat Exo25:21, they are a standalone unit written by God Himself Exo31:18 Deut5:22


God put an end to animal sacrifices and offerings as predicted Dan9:27 Heb10:1-15 which has already been addressed.

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God also said that He would make a new covenant with us, and here we are in the new covenant. Are you suggesting that the Ark of the covenant was for this covenant were in now?

BNR32FAN said:

God also said that He would make a new covenant with us, and here we are in the new covenant. Are you suggesting that the Ark of the covenant was for this covenant were in now?

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The New Covenant was established on better promises, not better laws Heb8:6 the only change was the location of God's laws from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 heb8:10 based on the better promise of Him doing if we cooperate with Him.

BNR32FAN said:

Right so we worship Him on Sunday because of a rebellious attitude towards Him? You’re suggesting that we worship on Sunday because we want to worship idols? I highly doubt that 99% of Christians know anything about how to worship idols. Your argument does make any sense since the whole reason Christians worship on Sunday is to glorify CHRIST!! You’re quoting passages that have nothing to do with this situation and ignoring Colossians 2:16 which is specific not only to the Saturday Sabbath but also to food and drink. Colossians 2:16 single handedly pretty much destroys Ellen White’s teachings. The problem is that people get fooled by her teachings because they don’t know the scriptures and once that happens they just don’t want to admit it. Like the saying goes “it’s easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they’ve been fooled”.

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I didn't use my words in the post you are replying to, God said it, not me. Sunday is not in Scripture as a holy day, this is a man-made holy day that competes with the holy day of God in His own words Isa58:13 Exo20:10 Mar2:28. Sunday did not come with the sanctification of God or His blessing, its a man-made tradition that competes with one of God's commandments which Jesus addressed this concept plainly Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13. Life is about choices and which voice we are going to obey, the apostles said we ought to obey God over man. You claim Paul did away with God's weekly Sabbath commandment, yet he still kept every Sabbath thirty years later after the Cross. Jesus said the Sabbath would not end at His cross Mat24:20-30 or ever Isa66:23.

The only thing your interpretation of Col 2:16 destroys is the words of Jesus Christ, making something that God made as a blessing and sanctified by God that now pits against what Jesus said as something He made against mankind. You have yet to provide any Scripture to refute the context I provided of this passage, just saying you disagree is not an argument. I do not recall anyone quoting EGW, only Scriptures were provided, she only points us back to Scriptures. God blessed and sanctified and made the Sabbath day holy and is one of His commandments and said was made for us and to Remember, this disagreement is really with Him and no one else.

Guess it will get sorted out soon enough.

SabbathBlessings said:

No I am denying the interpretation of pitting Paul against what Jesus who is God said about His Sabbath and holy day.

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Our Lord objected to the Pharisaical over-emphasis of Sabbatarian restrictions, so nope, what St. Paul said was not inconsistent.

SabbathBlessings said:

I guess that why we should not go by AI but instead what God says as obviously AI shows different results and the Lords day is not shown in Scripture as day one anywhere in Scripture, so obviously this AI was not using Bible only.

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So why did you quote it then, hmm? Its not like I haven’t been trying to warn members about the dangers of using AI to try to answer subjective questions. AI is only reliable when it comes to pattern matching, and even then it hallucinates, and indeed the different AI vendors publish statistics on hallucination rates for their models. Nonetheless the OP for this thread constitutes an appeal to unqualified authority, seeking to invoke what AI said as a definitive reason to endorse your denomination’s point of view.

SabbathBlessings said:

All this and not one verse from God saying we can profane His Sabbath commandment, when He throughout the entire Bible said not to.

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So you are denying Colossians 2:16 is inspired - got it.


(verses from St. Paul, if inspired, are from God - that’s what inspired means; “God-breathed.” As if God had spoken or written them personally)

The Liturgist said:

Our Lord objected to the Pharisaical over-emphasis of Sabbatarian restrictions, so nope, what St. Paul said was not inconsistent.

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The Lord objected to the man-made rules the Pharisees were adding to the commandments of God. He never condemned anyone for keeping the commandments, only for not keeping them. Mark7:7-13 Mat15:3-14 Mat5:19-30

The Liturgist said:

So why did you quote it then, hmm? Its not like I haven’t been trying to warn members about the dangers of using AI to try to answer subjective questions. AI is only reliable when it comes to pattern matching, and even then it hallucinates, and indeed the different AI vendors publish statistics on hallucination rates for their models. Nonetheless the OP for this thread constitutes an appeal to unqualified authority, seeking to invoke what AI said as a definitive reason to endorse your denomination’s point of view.




So you are denying Colossians 2:16 is inspired - got it.


(verses from St. Paul, if inspired, are from God - that’s what inspired means; “God-breathed.” As if God had spoken or written them personally)

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Your words not mine, I already said they were inspired and I believe there is a new rule not to post things about people out of context. I know you would certainly not appreciate me claiming you said something you didn't.

Its not Paul's writings, the inspired word of God said the issue is the way people twist them out of context that is the issue. Like and interpretation which would make Jesus say the opposite of what He said plainly.

The Sabbath was made for mankind Mark2:27

Not the Sabbath was made for against mankind.

Telling Jesus His Sabbath ended at the Cross, when He plainly said it would not Mat24:20-30 Isa66:23.

Only God can bless and only God can sanctify, not Paul, not man, God alone. And no one can take it away, not Paul not any man, and all of the thus saith the Lords Jesus told us to live by, He told us to keep the Sabbath day holy, not to profane it because it shows a bigger issue going on Eze20:16. You are free to believe as you wish, if you find a verse from God that says we do not need to keep the 4th commandment, let me know. Until then, I am going to keep it because God said so.

SabbathBlessings said:

I didn't use my words in the post you are replying to, God said it, not me. Sunday is not in Scripture as a holy day, this is a man-made holy day that competes with the holy day of God in His own words Isa58:13 Exo20:10 Mar2:28. Sunday did not come with the sanctification of God or His blessing, its a man-made tradition that competes with one of God's commandments which Jesus addressed this concept plainly Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13. Life is about choices and which voice we are going to obey, the apostles said we ought to obey God over man. You claim Paul did away with God's weekly Sabbath commandment, yet he still kept every Sabbath thirty years later after the Cross. Jesus said the Sabbath would not end at His cross Mat24:20-30 or ever Isa66:23.

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Except all of this hinges on your unsupported claim that Paul was not referring to the Saturday Sabbath in Colossians 2:16. He made no distinction of Sabbath days in that passage.

“When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭13‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul makes absolutely no distinction between sabbath days in this passage. So your whole argument hinges on your claim that he was not referring to the Saturday Sabbath when what he actually wrote was “a Sabbath day”.

BNR32FAN said:

Except all of this hinges on your unsupported claim that Paul was not referring to the Saturday Sabbath in Colossians 2:16. He made no distinction of Sabbath days in that passage.

“When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭13‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul makes absolutely no distinction between sabbath days in this passage. So your whole argument hinges on your claim that he was not referring to the Saturday Sabbath when what he actually wrote was “a Sabbath day”.

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I have already provided the context to this passage saying you just do not agree, is not a biblical argument. The Greek here is sabbath(s) not the Sabbath, as there are more than one, there is no eating, drinking, food and drink offerings in the Sabbath commandment, those are all related to the annual sabbath(s) feast days. Jesus said His Sabbath, the holy day of the Lord, would not end, I believe Him over the interpretation that makes Paul contradict Jesus and makes him the beast system who thought to change God’s times and laws Dan7:25

The weekly Sabbath was never a shadow to come as it started at Creation before sin Exo20:11 God in the Sabbath. commandment, points us back to Creation why He said Remember Exo20:8-11 when God made everything according to His perfect plan and the Sabbath points to God our Creator and Sanctifier Exo20:11 Eze20:12 are you really going to say that He was against us- God’s blessing and sanctification and what He made for us is against mankind. The Sabbath points us to the only God we are told to worship Rev14:7 Exo20:11, but animal sacrifices and feast days that some were also called sabbath(s) are shadows Heb10:1-15 Paul had no choice but to name them here but was careful to distinguish between the two, but sadly some people just do not seem to care, even if it contradicts Jesus and what Paul and the apostles themselves kept faithfully.


The Bible plainly tells us the laws that were against us:

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

The Ten Commandments are never called a witness against us in all of Scripture. They are written by the Holy Spirit Exo31:18

The Bible plainly tells us what the shadow laws are:

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The law that was added because of sin cannot be the same law that describes what sin is. Jesus came to end animal sacrifices and offerings which includes the annual feast days and annual sabbaths that all had animal sacrifices. The Ten Commandments stands on another foundation written personally by the God of the Bible, placed inside His ark of the covenant under the mercy seat of God, where justice and mercy will come together soon. I personally would not want to remove a jot or tittle of what Jesus covers, but God does grant us free will.