Asking AI to explain Sunday observance when NT has no such command

SabbathBlessings said:

Sure there was....

It was shown it was a commandment of God prior to Mt Sinai


All of the Ten Commandments was shown in principle prior to Mt Sinai. I can give you examples of this if you would like.

Exo 16:26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

God used the seventh day and the Sabbath as interchangeable- God speaking here and relating this to Creation.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Why the word God used was "Remember" because it wasn't new God was relating it when it started back to Creation.

It doesn't show them necessarily not keeping other commandments as well, it doesn't mean they didn't exist. Where there is no law there is no sin. Rom4:15 we are shown plainly people sinned way before Mt Sinai and are told plainly the Ten Commandments are the "ministry of death" 2 Cor3:7 because the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 so breaking the Ten Commandments is sin 1John3:4 Rom7:7 Mat5:19-30 James2:11 how could they not be it is God's own personally written Testimony that He tells us plainly how to love God Deut6:5 and how to love our neighbor Rom13:9 Jesus came to magnify Isa42:21 not destroy Mat5:17-31

The bible is not meant to be read in chronological order and in doing so, one will come to a lot of wrong conclusions. It was written in repeat and enlarge and when the God of the Bible personally reveals something, I believe our response should be to believe Him as the apostles and prophets job were to testify about Him not speak over Him. And no one has a greater Testimony than God Himself Exo31:18




In your Bible, read them.

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And let’s not get off track of the original topic of this discussion. I quoted Colossians 2:16 to support my position that we are no longer obligated to observe the sabbath and your response was that Paul was only talking about the sabbaths that required animal sacrifices. Then I quoted Numbers 28:9-10 showing that animal sacrifices were required for keeping the Saturday Sabbath. So how are you going to continue to claim that Colossians 2:16 is not referring to the Saturday Sabbath?

BNR32FAN said:

And let’s not get off track of the original topic of this discussion. I quoted Colossians 2:16 to support my position that we are no longer obligated to observe the sabbath and your response was that Paul was only talking about the sabbaths that required animal sacrifices. Then I quoted Numbers 28:9-10 showing that animal sacrifices were required for keeping the Saturday Sabbath. So how are you going to continue to claim that Colossians 2:16 is not referring to the Saturday Sabbath?

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Yes and I already showed you the sabbaths Paul was speaking of that had to do with food and drink offerings that were hand written by Moses, not one of God's commandments, written by the Holy Spirit of Truth, that God said started from Creation and blessed, that no man can reverse Num23:20. This interpretation would literally countermand everything God said and make what God said was made for man, against man. If you wish not to allow the context that Paul gave on this passage to be ignored, suit yourself. Misunderstanding him came with a salvation warning, 2Peter3:16 Paul can't save us, only the blood of Jesus can, He said Remember and we honor Him when we do so. He taught the Sabbath would not end at His Cross Mat24:20-30 or ever Isa66:22-23

SabbathBlessings said:

Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to remember, recall, call to mind
   1. (Qal) to remember, recall
   2. (Niphal) to be brought to remembrance, be remembered, be thought of, be brought to mind
   3. (Hiphil)
      1. to cause to remember, remind
      2. to cause to be remembered, keep in remembrance
      3. to mention
      4. to record
      5. to make a memorial, make remembrance

Do your kids honor you when they remember what you ask of them or forget?


Yet they knew it was a commandment before Mt Sinai.


Exo 16:26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

The God of the Bible revealed "His commandments" Exo20:6 Deut4:13 it doesn't matter if its before or after He wrote them, they belong to God and no one has the power to take them away from Him. He said a power would try Dan7:25 that sadly most follow but not everyone Rev 12:17 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

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They knew that they weren’t supposed to gather the manna on Saturday because they had been told not to gather it on Saturday in that chapter. That’s all they had been told. They hadn’t been told that they are to do no work prior to Mt Sinai.

SabbathBlessings said:

Yes and I already showed you the sabbaths Paul was speaking of that had to do with food and drink offerings that were hand written by Moses, not one of God's commandments, written by the Holy Spirit of Truth, that God said started from Creation and blessed, that no man can reverse Num23:20. This interpretation would literally countermand everything God said and make what God said was made for man, against man. If you wish not to allow the context that Paul gave on this passage to be ignored, suit yourself. Misunderstanding him came with a salvation warning, Paul can't save us only the blood of Jesus can, He said Remember and we honor Him when we do so.

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So you think Paul was speaking on his own authority in Colossians 2? God also said the same thing about the Passover and yet He changed that as well.

BNR32FAN said:

So you think Paul was speaking on his own authority in Colossians 2? God also said the same thing about the Passover and yet He changed that as well.

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I think this is here for a reason,

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

When we start making the servant greater than the master, which not even Paul said he was. This interpretation would literally make Jesus contradict Himself and God's Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20 be of no value. Paul is not God, but a servant of God and not even Paul did what you claim he is teaching as he faithfully kept every Sabbath decades after the Cross. Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc.


Here's the context for Col 2:16 which starts in verse 14

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it

This is speaking of something that was handwritten, that was contrary and against man and was nailed to the Cross.

First, I am going to quote to the words of Jesus Christ, the one whose blood died for us and what did He say about His Sabbath, did He say it was going to end at the Cross.

Jesus speaking here...He connects in His own words that Sabbath would be kept decades after the Cross and connects it to His Second Coming

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be

Jesus said the Sabbath continues in the New Heaven and New Earth

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

So the Sabbath ending at the Cross is not something Jesus taught. Is Paul really countermanding Jesus Christ? Of course not

So lets be careful that we are not making Paul say something against what Christ taught. Jesus never once said the Sabbath commandment ended, not in teaching, not in actions. He kept the Sabbath Luke4:16 and said He is Lord of the Sabbath Mark2:28 what is the point of being Lord of something that no longer exist-the Sabbath ties to His creative power as the God who made heaven and earth Exo20:11 John1:1-3, the only God who has the power to sanctify a day Gen 2:3 the only God who has the power to sanctify us Eze20:12 the only God who has the power to bless a day Exo20:11 and bless us Isa56:2 and what God blesses, man cannot take away Num 23:20 what He does is forever and no one can add or take from it. Ecc 3:14 because man is not God.

So lets look at the context more carefully of Col2:14-17

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.


Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about something that is

1. handwritten
2. ordinances
3. against and contrary to us

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 what God makes for man is not against man. The Sabbath commandment was not "handwritten" it was written by the finger of God which is the Holy Spirit of Truth. Exo31:18. God called the Sabbath one of His commandments, it was not an ordinances handwritten by man. The weekly Sabbath was inside the ark of the covenant and God claimed the Sabbath as "His" "My holy day" Isa58:13 no one can take away God's blessing or the holy day of the Lord thy God.

Paul is clearly speaking of something handwritten, ordinances that was contrary and against.

2 Chr 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

This is something that is handwritten by Moses, not what God wrote that what He does is forever Ecc3:13

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

It what Paul is quoting
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

There is more than one Sabbath in the Scriptures. The weekly Sabbath that started at Creation according to the Testimony of God Exo20:11 this was before sin and points to our Creator so can't be a shadow of anything. There are also the annual sabbath(s) feasts days that have to do with food and drink offering that was handwritten by Moses, that was placed besides the ark, not what was inside the ark, God's Ten Commandments engraved by God Himself, which is what Paul was speaking about as clearly shown in context.

Jesus came to put an end to animal sacrifices and offerings Dan9:27 which is what the annual sabbaths were about. According to the Testimony of Jesus Christ, the weekly Sabbath continues for eternity. We were told there is a government that changed God's times and laws Dan7:25 that was not Paul, that was what we were warned about that sadly most follow many without even realizing

SabbathBlessings said:

I think this is here for a reason,

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

When we start making the servant greater than the master, which not even Paul said he was. This interpretation would literally make Jesus contradict Himself and God's Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20 be of no value. Paul is not God, but a servant of God and not even Paul did what you claim he is teaching as he faithfully kept every Sabbath decades after the Cross. Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc.


Here's the context for Col 2:16 which starts in verse 14

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it

This is speaking of something that was handwritten, that was contrary and against man and was nailed to the Cross.

First, I am going to quote to the words of Jesus Christ, the one whose blood died for us and what did He say about His Sabbath, did He say it was going to end at the Cross.

Jesus speaking here...He connects in His own words that Sabbath would be kept decades after the Cross and connects it to His Second Coming

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be

Jesus said the Sabbath continues in the New Heaven and New Earth

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

So the Sabbath ending at the Cross is not something Jesus taught. Is Paul really countermanding Jesus Christ? Of course not

So lets be careful that we are not making Paul say something against what Christ taught. Jesus never once said the Sabbath commandment ended, not in teaching, not in actions. He kept the Sabbath Luke4:16 and said He is Lord of the Sabbath Mark2:28 what is the point of being Lord of something that no longer exist-the Sabbath ties to His creative power as the God who made heaven and earth Exo20:11 John1:1-3, the only God who has the power to sanctify a day Gen 2:3 the only God who has the power to sanctify us Eze20:12 the only God who has the power to bless a day Exo20:11 and bless us Isa56:2 and what God blesses, man cannot take away Num 23:20 what He does is forever and no one can add or take from it. Ecc 3:14 because man is not God.

So lets look at the context more carefully of Col2:14-17

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This verse sets up the following verses and gives us a lot more context.


Paul is giving us the context as to what he is speaking about something that is

1. handwritten
2. ordinances
3. against and contrary to us

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark2:27 what God makes for man is not against man. The Sabbath commandment was not "handwritten" it was written by the finger of God which is the Holy Spirit of Truth. Exo31:18. God called the Sabbath one of His commandments, it was not an ordinances handwritten by man. The weekly Sabbath was inside the ark of the covenant and God claimed the Sabbath as "His" "My holy day" Isa58:13 no one can take away God's blessing or the holy day of the Lord thy God.

Paul is clearly speaking of something handwritten, ordinances that was contrary and against.

2 Chr 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

This is something that is handwritten by Moses, not what God wrote that what He does is forever Ecc3:13

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

It what Paul is quoting
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

There is more than one Sabbath in the Scriptures. The weekly Sabbath that started at Creation according to the Testimony of God Exo20:11 this was before sin and points to our Creator so can't be a shadow of anything. There are also the annual sabbath(s) feasts days that have to do with food and drink offering that was handwritten by Moses, that was placed besides the ark, not what was inside the ark, God's Ten Commandments engraved by God Himself.

Jesus came to put an end to animal sacrifices and offerings Dan9:27 which is what the annual sabbaths were about. According to the Testimony of Jesus Christ, the weekly Sabbath continues for eternity. We were told there is a government that changed God's times and laws Dan7:25 that was not Paul, that was what we were warned about that sadly most follow many without even realizing

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So then by this logic we should also be circumcised and celebrating the Passover because the apostles didn’t have the authority to overrule these commandments and if they had abolished these laws they would be contradicting God’s words that these were supposed to be observed forever just like all the rest of the sabbaths.

And as for the handwritten ordinances Paul said the same thing about the ministry of death written on stone tablets where he also reveals where his authority concerning the law comes from.

“Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995

According to this not only were the handwritten ordinances abolished but also the letter of the law written on stone tablets was also abolished.

SabbathBlessings said:

I think this is here for a reason,

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

When we start making the servant greater than the master, which not even Paul said he was. This interpretation would literally make Jesus contradict Himself and God's Blessing that no man can reverse Num23:20 be of no value. Paul is not God, but a servant of God and not even Paul did what you claim he is teaching as he faithfully kept every Sabbath decades after the Cross. Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc.

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All this is is an excuse to disregard scripture. Nobody is making the servant greater than the Master here because Paul was specifically chosen by God to deliver His message. Paul was just as much of a prophet as any of the other prophets including Moses. And none of those passages say that Paul kept the Sabbath, they say that he went and preached every sabbath. They weren’t commanded to attend the Synagogue on Saturday Sabbath they were commanded to rest.

BNR32FAN said:

So then by this logic we should also be circumcised and celebrating the Passover because the apostles didn’t have the authority to overrule these commandments and if they had abolished these laws they would be contradicting God’s words that these were supposed to be observed forever just like all the rest of the sabbaths.

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Circumcision is not one of the Ten Commandments Exo20:1-17 the Testimony of God Exo31:18, either is Passover, both of these came after sin and served a purpose. The Sabbath came before sin Exo20:11 and was always part of God's perfect plan. You are comparing apples to oranges and not allowing the context of the Bible to explain itself.

So instead of actually addressing the Scriptures in context, just went on to the next agreement.

BNR32FAN said:

And as for the handwritten ordinances Paul said the same thing about the ministry of death written on stone tablets where he also reveals where his authority concerning the law comes from.

“Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995

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Weird that you left out the verse that shows where the law of stone went.

2 Cor 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God

ink is what man wrote on parchment, the Ten Commandments was written by the Spirit of the living God Exo31:18 Luke 11:20, Mat12:28

not on tablets of stone (Ten Commandments) but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

And it tells us where the Ten Commandments went, tablets of the heart the New Covenant Heb8:10

The location changed, not God's laws as He promised Psa89:34 Mat5:18-19 because you can't make what the Holy Spirit of Truth wrote more perfect, but God can help us keep them through His ministration Jphn14:15-18, if we do not rebel. Sadly, many refuse to allow God to write His laws in their hearts Rom8:7-8

BNR32FAN said:

According to this not only were the handwritten ordinances abolished but also the letter of the law written on stone tablets was also abolished.

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Not in Scripture. But if you wish to believe that we can break God's Holy Law, that can be between you and He. Not something He says His faithful do. Rev 14:12 Rev 12:17 Rev22:14

SabbathBlessings said:

I think this is here for a reason,

2 Peter 3: 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

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Follow the verse to completion. Paul’s writings are hard to understand because untaught and unstable people twist his words to their own destruction. Paul’s epistles are not hard to understand at all but they do destroy your pet doctrine.

BNR32FAN said:

All this is is an excuse to disregard scripture. Nobody is making the servant greater than the Master here because Paul was specifically chosen by God to deliver His message. Paul was just as much of a prophet as any of the other prophets including Moses.

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Sure they are, why this verse is there. Than show me one verse by God Himself where He took away the blessing and sanctification of His holy day, the Sabbath. Man cannot reverse this, man is not God. Jesus was on earth 40 days after His death, where did He once say there was a change to His commandment? He saw His faithful disciples first right after He rose and they kept the Sabbath according to the commandment after His death Luke23:56, where did He tell them they no longer needed to keep this commandment of God? Jesus ratified His covenant at His death, nothing can be changed or added, He rose because Jesus is God.

Where Jesus misspoke and said His Sabbath continues on decades after the Cross Mat24:20-30 and for eternity Isa66:23 that Paul just wiped out and countermanded Jesus. Where God said He would not alter the words of His covenant Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle and Jesus came to destroy His own laws, not magnify, which He promised Isa42:21 Paul just decided to countermand God and change God's times and laws I am sure he know about would happen in Dan 7:25 and make Jesus say:

The Sabbath was made for (insert against) mankind Mark2:27 which this interpretation is not Biblical and editing the words of Jesus Christ.

I provided clear context through Scripture you are free to make a biblical argument why you disagree. Just saying so, its not the same.

SabbathBlessings said:

as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

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Yes, we’ve seen this argument from you before, but what St. Paul writes about the Sabbath is easy to understand, so no, you don’t get to use 2 Peter 3:16 as a get-out-of-jail card for those parts of St. Paul you don’t understand.

The portions St. Peter referred to were those portions exploited by the followers of Simon Magus, Nicolas the Deacon, Cerinthus and later Marcion of Sinope, who taught that Jesus Christ was not Son of the God of the Old Testament but an emanation of a true God, the Hebrews being accused of worshipping an evil and incompetent demiurge. This heresy was opposed by all of the Apostles who encountered it, and we find references to it in the writings of St. Peter, St. Paul and St. John.

The problem remains eisegesis on your part - rather than reading the NT as a coherent whole, you hunt for individual verses to support your doctrine. This is actually contrary to the teachings of Ellen G. White, who promoted critical thinking, insofar as eisegesis shows a lack of objectivity.

Also the fact remains - most worshippers on Saturday and most worship services conducted are by Roman Catholics, which deflates the Sabbatarian narrative that falsely accuses Rome of a litany of evils and of Sabbath-suppression (apparently the Roman Catholic Church didn’t get the memo, since RCC priests are required to celebrate Mass and the daily prayers (Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and so on) every Saturday, and the laity didn’t either, given the large number of devotional services such as novenas and rosaries and Eucharistic adoration that happens on the Sabbath.

SabbathBlessings said:

Than show me one verse by God Himself where He took away the blessing and sanctification of His holy day, the Sabbath.

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So you’re denying the Pauline epistles are God-breathed?

Because if so, that’s a serious problem.

In part because the argument you use for Sola Scriptura was written by St. Paul.

Inspired by God means written through the Holy Spirit - there is no hierarchy of accuracy among scriptural texts - a text is either inspired, or not.

The Liturgist said:

So you’re denying the Pauline epistles are God-breathed?

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No I am denying the interpretation of pitting Paul against what Jesus who is God said about His Sabbath and holy day.

The Liturgist said:

Because if so that’s a serious problem.

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Yes it is making the servant greater than the Master. John13:16 Why we have a salvation warning about Paul's writings that many would twist to their own destruction in the inspired word of God.

The Liturgist said:

Yes, we’ve seen this argument from you before, but what St. Paul writes about the Sabbath is easy to understand, so no, you don’t get to use 2 Peter 3:16 as a get-out-of-jail card for those parts of St. Paul you don’t understand.

The portions St. Peter referred to were those portions exploited by the followers of Simon Magus, Nicolas the Deacon, Cerinthus and later Marcion of Sinope, who taught that Jesus Christ was not Son of the God of the Old Testament but an emanation of a true God, the Hebrews being accused of worshipping an evil and incompetent demiurge. This heresy was opposed by all of the Apostles who encountered it, and we find references to it in the writings of St. Peter, St. Paul and St. John.

The problem remains eisegesis on your part - rather than reading the NT as a coherent whole, you hunt for individual verses to support your doctrine. This is actually contrary to the teachings of Ellen G. White, who promoted critical thinking, insofar as eisegesis shows a lack of objectivity.

Also the fact remains - most worshippers on Saturday and most worship services conducted are by Roman Catholics, which deflates the Sabbatarian narrative that falsely accuses Rome of a litany of evils and of Sabbath-suppression (apparently the Roman Catholic Church didn’t get the memo, since RCC priests are required to celebrate Mass and the daily prayers (Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and so on) every Saturday, and the laity didn’t either, given the large number of devotional services such as novenas and rosaries and Eucharistic adoration that happens on the Sabbath.

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All this and not one verse from God saying we can profane His Sabbath commandment, when He throughout the entire Bible said not to.

BNR32FAN said:

All this is is an excuse to disregard scripture. Nobody is making the servant greater than the Master here because Paul was specifically chosen by God to deliver His message. Paul was just as much of a prophet as any of the other prophets including Moses. And none of those passages say that Paul kept the Sabbath, they say that he went and preached every sabbath. They weren’t commanded to attend the Synagogue on Saturday Sabbath they were commanded to rest.

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Paul was chosen to spread the gospel after Jesus ratified His covenant at the Cross, not change God's times and laws Dan7:25

The Sabbath commandment is to keep the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8 and we rest from our works Exo20:10 so we can focus on God Isa58:13 and the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 which is all part of Sabbath-keeping and seen in the life of Jesus and the apostles. If the Sabbath didn't exist after the Cross, we would no longer see the name God gave the seventh day, which is the Sabbath Exo20:11. The only day God gave a name in the entire Bible and claimed it as His- My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God Isa58:13 who is greater than God to change what is His? Only what He warned us about.

Since the OP is making his argument for sabbath keeping from AI I decided to ask AI if the Saturday sabbath keeping was required for the Christian. Here is the AI response.

AI Overview

No, most Christians are not
required to keep the Saturday Sabbath, as the New Testament doesn't command it, viewing the Old Covenant Sabbath as fulfilled in Christ and pointing towards Sunday worship (resurrection day) or a general spiritual rest, though some denominations (like Seventh-day Adventists) still observe Saturday, and others see it as a matter of personal choice or spiritual discipline. The Apostle Paul suggests Christians shouldn't let others judge them for how they observe specific days (Colossians 2:16-17).
Why Most Christians Don't Keep Saturday

• Fulfilled in Christ: The Sabbath was a sign of the covenant with Israel; in Christ, believers find true rest, making the literal day less critical.
• New Covenant Freedom: The New Testament emphasizes freedom in Christ, moving focus from Jewish ceremonial laws to Christ's work.
• Sunday Worship: Early Christians shifted to Sunday (the first day of the week) to commemorate Jesus' resurrection.
• Spiritual Rest: The core principle of rest and honoring God is seen as applicable daily, not just on one specific day.

Denominations That Do (or Emphasize) the Sabbath

• Seventh-day Adventists: Teach that the Sabbath (Saturday) remains a perpetual sign of God's creation and covenant, binding on all Christians.
• Some Baptists/Other Groups: Hold to the "Lord's Day" (Sunday) as the Christian Sabbath, requiring rest from secular labor.

In Summary
While the Old Testament commanded the Saturday Sabbath for Israel, most Christian traditions believe this obligation passed away with the Old Covenant, shifting emphasis to Christ and Sunday worship, with the underlying principle of rest remaining vital, though flexible

My AI said this when I asked it only to go by the Bible

Great question — Colossians 2:16 is often cited in discussions about whether Christians are still required to keep the Sabbath commandment (the Fourth Commandment). Let's look at the verse carefully, in its full context, and then assess whether it refers to the weekly Sabbath from the Ten Commandments or ceremonial sabbaths in the Law of Moses.

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Colossians 2:16–17 (NKJV)​

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

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Key Questions:​

1. What kind of “sabbaths” is Paul talking about?​

Let’s break the phrase down:

“festival, new moon, or sabbaths”

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This phrase appears in many places in the Old Testament, often in this same order, and always refers to ceremonial observances:

• 1 Chronicles 23:31
• 2 Chronicles 2:4
• 2 Chronicles 31:3
• Nehemiah 10:33
• Ezekiel 45:17
• Hosea 2:11

These texts link festivals, new moons, and sabbaths as ceremonial observances — part of the Mosaic (Levitical) system, not the weekly seventh-day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments.


That’s why Paul says in Col. 2:17:

"which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."

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In other words, these ceremonial laws pointed forward to Christ and found their fulfillment in Him.

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2. Is the weekly Sabbath also a shadow?​

There’s a strong distinction between:

• The weekly Sabbathwas:
  • Given at Creation (Genesis 2:2–3)
  • Reinforced in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8–11)
  • Not instituted as a shadow, but as a memorial of creation
• The ceremonial sabbaths(e.g., Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets) are:
  • Called sabbaths too (see Leviticus 23)
  • Fall on various days, not necessarily the seventh day
  • Shadows pointing to Jesus' work

Therefore, when Paul talks about “sabbaths which are a shadow”, he refers to these ceremonial sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment.

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3. Did Jesus or the Apostles abolish the weekly Sabbath?​

• Jesus kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16)
• The disciples kept the Sabbath after Jesus' death (Acts 13:42, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4)
• Hebrews 4:9 says:
  

  "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest [Greek: sabbatismos] for the people of God."

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✅ Conclusion:​

Colossians 2:16 does not cancel the weekly Sabbath commandment.
It refers to ceremonial sabbaths, along with food and drink offerings, and religious festivals that were shadows pointing to Christ.


The Fourth Commandment Sabbath is not a shadow, but a memorial of creation and a sign of God’s sanctifying work (Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12).

2. But Which Commandment Does God Emphasize Most in the Bible?​

✅ The Fourth Commandment (Sabbath) is the only one God:​

• Calls "My holy day" (Isaiah 58:13)
• Links to Creation (Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 20:11)
• Uses to test Israel's obedience before Sinai (Exodus 16)
• Commands to remember as a sign between Him and His people (Ezekiel 20:12, 20)
• Institutes as a covenantal sign (Exodus 31:13–17)

The Fourth Commandment is the most directly spoken about by God throughout the Bible. It is personally claimed by Him, reaffirmed repeatedly, and tied to His identity as both Creator and Sanctifier.

When I asked AI “using the bible only does the chistian required to keep the saturday sabbath” this is the response.

AI Overview


Based
only on the Bible, most Christian traditions teach that Christians are not required to keep the Saturday Sabbath, as it was part of the Old Covenant Law given to Israel, fulfilled in Christ, and the New Testament emphasizes freedom from the Law and worship on the "Lord's Day" (Sunday) or daily, with specific day observance left to individual conscience (Romans 14:5; Colossians 2:16-17). While Jewish believers initially observed both, the early church met on Sunday, celebrating Christ's resurrection, and Paul warned against judging others on Sabbath observance.
Key Biblical Points for Not Requiring Saturday Sabbath:

• Fulfillment in Christ: Colossians 2:16-17 calls the Sabbath a "shadow of things to come," with Christ being the "substance" (reality).
• Freedom from the Law: Christians are under the "law of Christ" (the Spirit), not the old Mosaic Law which included the Sabbath (Romans 6:14; Galatians 6:2).
• New Covenant: The Sabbath was a sign of the covenant between God and Israel, not the Church, which is under a new covenant (Hebrews 8).
• Individual Conscience: Romans 14:5 encourages Christians to decide for themselves if they observe a day, as long as they are convinced in their own mind, highlighting liberty, not obligation.

The Christian "Sabbath" (Rest in Christ):

• Hebrews 4:9-10 speaks of a spiritual "Sabbath rest" that remains for God's people, a rest from sin found in Christ, rather than a specific day of rest from work.

Early Church Practice:

• The early followers of "the Way" kept the Jewish Sabbath but also gathered on the first day of the week (Sunday) for worship (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:1-2).

Conclusion from Scripture:
The New Testament teaches that while rest is good, the strict Saturday Sabbath observance isn't a mandatory command for Christians; believers are free from the Law's requirements and find their true rest in Christ, with Sunday (the Lord's Day) becoming the focus of Christian gathering.

I guess that why we should not go by AI but instead what God says as obviously AI shows different results and the Lords day is not shown in Scripture as day one anywhere in Scripture, so obviously this AI was not using Bible only.

I asked it this question to use the Bible only and this was the result:

Great question — and you asked Bible only, so we’ll do exactly that: let Scripture define Scripture and avoid later church tradition.


The phrase is in:

Revelation 1:10
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day…”

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The Bible does not give a verse that directly says, “The Lord’s day means ___.”
So we have to identify what day the Bible itself calls the Lord’s.


There are two biblical uses of “the Lord’s day” language in Scripture:

1. The weekly day that belongs to the Lord (Sabbath)
2. “The day of the Lord” (judgment / end-time event)

Only one fits Revelation 1:10 best — but I’ll show both from Scripture.

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✅ 1) The Bible calls the Sabbath “the Lord’s” day​

A) God calls the Sabbath “My holy day”​

Isaiah 58:13
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath… and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD…”

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So the Sabbath is explicitly called:

• the holy day of the LORD
• i.e., the Lord’s day (His day)

B) Jesus says He is Lord of the Sabbath​

Mark 2:28
“Therefore the Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath.”

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If Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, then the Sabbath is literally the Lord’s day.

C) The Sabbath is called the LORD’s in the Ten Commandments​

Exodus 20:10
“But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God.”

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So three times in Scripture the Sabbath is plainly labeled as belonging to the Lord:

• “Sabbath of the LORD” (Exo 20:10)
• “holy day of the LORD” (Isa 58:13)
• “Lord of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:28)

✅ This is the clearest Bible-only definition of a day that belongs to the Lord.

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✅ 2) The Bible also has a phrase: “the day of the Lord” (judgment)​

This is a different phrase, but related.

Joel 2:31
“Before the great and terrible day of the LORD…”

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1 Thessalonians 5:2
“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.”

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That phrase means:

• the time of God’s judgment
• the end-time intervention of God

But notice: Scripture normally says “the day of the LORD” (with “of”), not “the Lord’s day” (possessive).


Revelation does use “day of the Lord” style language elsewhere (judgment themes), but Revelation 1:10 is simply describing what day John was on when he received the vision.

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✅ Which one fits Revelation 1:10 best (Bible-only reasoning)?​

Revelation 1:10 is a timing statement:​

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day…”

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It sounds like:

• a particular day John recognized and could name
• not a prophetic event (like the end-time Day of the Lord)

And the Bible’s clearest “Lord’s day” is:

• the Sabbath, because it is explicitly called God’s day, and Christ is Lord of it.

So Bible only, the strongest conclusion is:

The “Lord’s day” in Revelation 1:10 is the Sabbath — the seventh day — because Scripture explicitly calls it the LORD’s day / holy day, and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.

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Bible-only summary (simple)​

The Lord’s day = the day that belongs to the Lord.​

And Scripture identifies that day as:

• the Sabbath (Exo 20:10; Isa 58:13; Mark 2:28)

While “the day of the Lord” is:

• the end-time day of judgment (Joel 2:31; 1 Thess 5:2)

God blessed and sanctified only one day. Gen2:3 Exo20:11 man can't sanctify a day nor can they bless and sanctify themselves Isa66:17, we need God Isa56:2 Eze20:12 Eze20:20

Guess all will get sorted out at His soon return.

SabbathBlessings said:

I guess that why we should not go by AI but instead what God says as obviously AI shows different results and the Lords day is not shown in Scripture as day one anywhere in Scripture, so obviously this AI was not using Bible only.

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But you don’t go by what God says but by your interpretation of scripture. Not the same thing.