Is there a Christian political philosophy?

jonojim1337 said:

I think the problem is that some translations make you think one becomes a priest or a king by matter of faith, but if you’ve actually read the Bible then it is clear that there is an order of succession in both offices, even if the cornerstone of it all, is faith in Christ of course.

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I would not say it's an "order of succession" at all. "Order of succession" would mean that all the edicts of the earthly king originate with Christ.

Christ is the Head directly connected to His body as an entirely different chain of command, and the King is outside that chain of command.

Again, we are ambassadors of the Kingdom of Heaven assigned to the kingdoms of earth to proclaim the glories of our own King and nation.

fhansen said:

The real problem is people in general. Even the holiest of us will be imperfect relative to God. So some degree of corruption or compromise will always prevail here on this earth. But does that mean we should just give up and isolate ourselves?

Humans are both individual and social beings. Our relationship with God is individual but also corporate as the Body, with a unity, also yet imperfect in this life, that we were created to have.

So do we ignore injustice in this world, or, alternatively, simply depend on the goodwill of believers to somehow prevent or rectify injustices? Or, instead, does a just socieity unite together under some model of government and legislate against immoral behavior such as, say murder? Or against the excesses that capitalists might go to maximize profits, including the exploitation of labor, creation of monopolies, etc? Anyway, as long as people are involved there can be no perfect political or governmental system; they're all compromises that we must nonetheless use in order to promote the common good, hopefully guided by Christian principles to the best we can.

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Thats a good way of putting it and I agree. It seems that all of the political ideas and beliefs and wars are happening within a certain realm that is of the world.

As all humans know Gods laws you don't have to be a Christian to know this. But the world will have their ideas about what this represents and how we can order society and the world to apply this.

So for Gods Kingdom and Christs church as a community of Christians we are no of that realm in which these battles happen. We can pull out the value and moral similarities that come from politicial and civil ideologies. But they are not within the same realm and we can easily be overcome when trying to work within that worldly realm.

I think for Christians its a completely different realm and not of this world and as a community we have to be different in how we present the gospel and Christ to the world. If we mix it with world ideologies and within that frame we will lose. We will be competing on their terms.

So I think that means the only way to differentiate is Christ. It sounds simple but doing so is different to the war of words within the political arena. In fact it seems that todays arena is a post modernist one which undermines Christs truth by claiming there is no truth. So words themselves become the reality. You can't beat narratives about persoanl and subjective truths from experiences.

But what is the one thing everyone agrees on and which has turned people away from God. Its hypocracy. Its talking the talk and not walking the walk. They never see clearly the reality of Christ working within His church.

So logically if we apply this to Christians who are suppose to be the ones who are transfromed to be Christlike. If more Christians actually live what Christ taught in the bible then it stands to reason that Christians would not only have the words but live the words.

Thus being one group who cannot be accused as hypocrites.

Now that would doubly turn heads. Because not only for once is a group actually doing what they preach. But they are displaying what is suppose to be the very examples Peter says that will turn peoples heads to God without any words spoken.

Honouring Nero was problematic. Psychopaths almost never have remorse. Paul preaching to him was dangerous. He killed Paul. Nero may have been the beast, regarding his behaviour, imitating a rabid dog. Hitler took advantage of German honour for the government, expecting them to do what was right, under the illusion Hitler was a great guy. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was on the ball. Dietrich may have written about the best Christian politics.

I don't interpret scripture literally. Paul would not cut people out of the body of Christ but rebuke them, unlike Jesus' method of winning over prostitutes and tax collectors. Paul was a Pharisee, the opposing party. But he was given a trust.

Politicians must be sane, possibly permitting depression or OCD, harmless illnesses. Not narcissists, Machiavellians, sociopaths and psychopaths or even schizoid patients.

Bonhoeffer and Wilberforce were good and I like John Winston Howard, who cared for the families of the boys from Sydney who went overseas to join ISIS and died. John listed himself for prayer on evangelists websites. His privatisation policies were lucrative but maybe not the best in the end. John is centre right, keeping Medicare and other Centrelink services going. He followed GW Bush into war. It must have seemed right at the time.

Comparing the results of smoothing in Wilberforce's policies with K Marx's it was a lot less trouble.

9Rock9 said:

So, I want to explore political philosophy and how it relates to Christianity.

Ideally, our faith should inform our politics, but not the other way around. Yet, this unfortunately not the case in reality. I don't intend to turn this into a finger pointing game between the left and the right, I just want to explore options here.

Should the government enact policies that reflect Christian policies?

One could argue yes, since a Christian government could provide a moral foundation for an otherwise secular society and arguably improves everyone's lives. On the other hand, one can say that the government would just bastardize Christianity and use it as a weapon for social control.

What about libertarianism? The Bible says to help the poor and needy. Yet, does that mean we should petition the government to do it, or is charity a personal responsibility for us as Christians, and thus we should not outsource it to the state?

Should there be a government? There are verses that seem to advocate for submitting to earthly authorities. Then again, many of these earthly authorities have, and sometimes still do, put innocent people to death. It can also be argued that the government has a monopoly on force and violence.

What are your thoughts?

I'm personally undecided, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what others think to help me find out where I stand.

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If the government is doing their job, they will always enact policies that support/reflect Christian ideologies/policies. True governance is from God and is supported by people when they follow His Will instead of satan's. Liberalism is supposed to be about the Liberties God has given to us while conservativism is supposed to be about how God Conserves His Law between people and Him.

Can we have a theocratic Christian Ideology amidst so many secular citizens?

One can form the best ideas, but get few votes and it is better to appeal to the masses, avoiding compromise.

I don't think there can be a Christian theocracy. I think the fallen world is designed to be open to all ideas and beliefs.

I think Christianity tried to be a theocracy after it was made the State religion of the Roman empire. But look how that turned out.

Fundementally I think governments are meant to be the arbitors of truth and what is right and just. But it seems when they abandon God then other ideas about how society and the world should be ordered fill the void.

I think primarily there are two positions to take. One that acknowledges a higher power and one that places humans as the power.

I think most ideologies and politics stems from this divide philosophically.

In thinking about the idea of Christian philosophy further in relation to politics.

I have been wondering what intellectual or philosophical era we are in at the moment. Christianity is always immersed in the secular politics which is based on norms and culture ect. As well as the overarching worldview at the time ie modernis and Postmodernist thinking.

We are supposed to be in a Post Modernist period. This will influence even Christian thought in how Gods word is applied.

But with recent events I am wondering if we have not entered a new period of world consciousness and thought. Not just another era of worldviews and thought. But a more comprehemsive period which is basically spiritual. All eras of thinking and philosophy have now culminated in the present time.

I say this because I think since Christ there has been a gradual progression towards the anti Christ in the guise of political ideologies and philosophies.

As time went on the secular ideology became the dominant norm and way the world thought. Thus we had the eras of intellectual periods and evolving political philosophy to replace Gods Kingdom.

In fact the world has been so successful that it went on to dominate societies order underpinning policies, laws, norms and institutions. Even the church.

As a result the worlds ideology and philosophies have been allowed to play out and be exposed. What we now see is the chaos of those secular political philosophies and intellectual thought. As a result we are seeing many insitutions and even entire regimes and nations breaking down, and toppling either by self implosion or by the need to take drastic action to stop the chaos.

This we are at a point where the world (satan) has been exposed. His ideas were allowed to flourish and they failed. This has caused a rethink, a reset and a reproving of many peoples ideas and beliefs. Some are realising and acknowledging the truth.

But for the ongoing world which will not die and will continue to defy the truth and Christ. What next. They have nothing. They have been exposed for the unreality and lies that were told in the promise of a new and beautiful earthly utopia.

While at the same time we are seeing amazing transitions of long held dictatorships and evils being exposed or brought into awareness and many rising in hope and change. And peace deals being made with long term enermies. Many in the church reproving their faith and standing up for Christ and Christians.

Hense are we now entering a time where bot sides now know this is a spiritual battle and a fight for truth and the oder of the world and reality. It seems to me this may be the case in that those who represent the worid are now doubling down and resorting to violence. Almost as though they know they are false but now just want to stop the truth at any cost.

All the cards are on the table now. Hense I think this is now beyond a postmodernist era, or just political philosophy. Its a post postmodernist era. But I am not sure what period we are in. Its seems a crazy mixture of everything and nothing. But I do know its very spoiritual. Its gloves off and everything is on the table.

This is not just for individual nations either. I think this is happening on a world scale. Bringing in all ideologies and cultures. Even Russia and China are speaking in spiritual terms about teh uultimate order of the world. The same with Isreal and Gaza.

This I think is an unprecendent and pivotable period going forward.

timf said:

Political engagement has been a "tar baby" for many Christians to draw them into worldly and fleshly entanglement. We know that Satan sets the course of the world (Eph 2:2).

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Yet we're supposed to obey authority, because governing authorities are placed by God.