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Young earth vs Old earth?

Fervent

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If you apply all that science teaches us to scripture then you can’t believe half of what is written in it.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Miraculous occurrences are by definition outside of the domain of science. The issue comes when rather than accepting that YEC is entirely based on faith, advocates push muddled "science" that isn't science at all.
 
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Ellesmere

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If one believes in a God inspired universe, then arguing over tinelines (6 days vs 4 billion years) and mechanics (creation vs evolution) is largely academic and misses the real question we should be asking!

The fact remains that regardless of whether the CREATION STORY is literal or symbolic, we exist - the real question that should be our focus of attention is not be HOW WE GOT HERE but WHY ARE WE HERE - WHAT PURPOSE DO WE SERVE!
 
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BNR32FAN

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. Miraculous occurrences are by definition outside of the domain of science. The issue comes when rather than accepting that YEC is entirely based on faith, advocates push muddled "science" that isn't science at all.
Right, so since the earth was miraculously created we shouldn’t expect it to coincide with science. I agree that YEC is based on faith.
 
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Fervent

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Right, so since the earth was miraculously created we shouldn’t expect it to coincide with science. I agree that YEC is based on faith.
That's fine, but if you're going to take that position, then to be consistent you must disregard science as an inquiry into the Earth's past.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That's fine, but if you're going to take that position, then to be consistent you must disregard science as an inquiry into the Earth's past.
I wouldn’t say that science can’t tell us anything about the earth’s past, just that it can’t tell us when the earth’s was created. I would also say that we can’t look to science to explain the other miracles mentioned in the Bible either, like Jesus walking on water or being resurrected to life after being dead for 3 days. These beliefs also require us to disregard science.
 
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Fervent

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I wouldn’t say that science can’t tell us anything about the earth’s past, just that it can’t tell us when the earth’s was created. I would also say that we can’t look to science to explain the other miracles mentioned in the Bible either, like Jesus walking on water or being resurrected to life after being dead for 3 days. These beliefs also require us to disregard science.
If the scientific picture of history is so far off that it projects billions of extra years, why would you then trust science for other areas of history? We're not talking individual or momentary departures, but multiple undetected departures that renders science entirely untrustworthy.
 
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CoreyD

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They’re both saying the exact same thing.
Thanks.

You're asking how do I explain Genesis 2:3 in conjunction with Exodus 20:11?

The Bible explains.



The simple answer is...

Whereas, God refers to the Sabbath, or rest, of Genesis 2:3, at Exodus 20:11, that rest is not the same rest (Sabbath) the Israelites were commanded to observe.

How do we know?



Several scriptures... one being Hebrews 4:1-10, where Paul refers to Sabbaths (rests). Hebrews 4:1-10. Verse 4 refers to the same Sabbath (seventh day rest), as mentioned at Genesis 2:3 and Exodus 20:11.

How many Sabbath days do you count in those verses, and which one refers to Exodus 20:11?



I counted

  1. God's rest (Verses 1-5)
    • Note: Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached [The nation of Israel] did not enter because of disobedience (Hebrews 4:6 )
  2. The Sabbath, or rest in the Promised land (Verse 8)
  3. The Sabbath, or rest for the people of God (Verses 7-9)



Which one of those Sabbaths (rests) refers to the Sabbath (rest), as mentioned at Exodus 20:8?

If you are saying that this seventh day is the same as mentioned at Exodus 2:3, does that mean God rests on this day and works the other days?

How would you explain 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. ?
 
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CoreyD

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If the scientific picture of history is so far off that it projects billions of extra years, why would you then trust science for other areas of history? We're not talking individual or momentary departures, but multiple undetected departures that renders science entirely untrustworthy.
I have found that certain beliefs in science are not correct, and when it is discovered that "the "science" is wrong", people adjust, so I would not rely on so-called science that posit hypotheses as fact.
However, that said, I have found the Bible to be much more reliable where history is concerned. It's never been proven wrong.

Scientific finding tend to be corrected in later finds to line up with the Bible's historical event.
Interpretations of the Bible, have also been proven wrong, but if "science" is the tool to do that, then those who contradict the Bible, would be correct.

For example, there are persons who say Adam was not the first man, and is used in scripture to represent mankind... etc.
That contradict the scriptures, but they take such a position, in order for the Bible to agree with "science".
That's not right, is it?
 
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Fervent

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I have found that certain beliefs in science are not correct, and when it is discovered that "the "science" is wrong", people adjust, so I would not rely on so-called science that posit hypotheses as fact.
However, that said, I have found the Bible to be much more reliable where history is concerned. It's never been proven wrong.
Science doesn't really contain "beliefs" it contains models that conform to the available evidence. As for whether the Bible has been "proven wrong", that's not really an area that I think would lead to much fruitful conversation in the current context.
Scientific finding tend to be corrected in later finds to line up with the Bible's historical event.
Interpretations of the Bible, have also been proven wrong, but if "science" is the tool to do that, then those who contradict the Bible, would be correct.
Yes, science builds models based on the best available evidence. As new evidence is found that either challenges current theories or supports alternative theories the model is adjusted. That's kind of the whole point of the scientific process.
For example, there are persons who say Adam was not the first man, and is used in scripture to represent mankind... etc.
That contradict the scriptures, but they take such a position, in order for the Bible to agree with "science".
That's not right, is it?
Nope, but given that whether or not there even was a "first couple" is dubious scientifically, whether or not it can be fit with the Biblical text isn't really all that relevant. What generally ends up happening with people trying to make the two fit together is YECs perpetuating dubious "science" and selectively examining the evidence discarding any contrary evidence and focusing on evidence they believe fits with a model built on late 19th century early 20th century interpretations of Genesis that are themselves out of sync with prior interpretations of the Genesis narratives.
 
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FaithT

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I used to believe in an old Earth. Not too sure now...
I know you told someone to google why you changed your mind, but I’d like to know, too. I’ve struggled with this from time to time, too and really would like to know what made you change your mind. Feel free to send me a PM.
 
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Lost4words

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I know you told someone to google why you changed your mind, but I’d like to know, too. I’ve struggled with this from time to time, too and really would like to know what made you change your mind. Feel free to send me a PM.
I just researched the subject that's all....
 
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tdidymas

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I posed this question years ago to anyone who believes in a 6k year old universe: How do you explain historical events in the universe which are observed today, which we see measured or calculated had to have happened long before 6k years? I've read quite a bit of material on attempts to explain it scientifically, but none of the answers were credible from a scientific standpoint. Case in point is supernovas, which have been observed up to 10BLY away.

If the U is younger than 10B yrs, then how can we observe an event that had to have happened 10B yrs ago? God does not cause confusion, which means He doesn't create cosmic events that never actually happened. It tells me that the traditional "literal" interpretation of Gen. 1 is wrong, and that section of scripture needs to be interpreted better. It seems to me that only those who insist on the 6k yr old U theory are the ones who are creating the "war" between science and religion.

So, if anyone has an expert explanation of how supernova events happened only 6k years ago which appear to have happened 167k yrs ago and up to 10B yrs ago, that we are just now observing in our stable universe, bring it on. If this question is off topic because the title is about Earth, let me know. But I think it's fundamentally the same.
 
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Lost4words

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So have I but I’ve yet to find anything to convince me that the earth, and even more so the entire universe, is 6000 years old or so.
Each to their own I guess
 
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FaithT

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Each to their own I guess
Well, I’d still really like know what it was that turned your belief around. I mean, there must’ve been a thing or two that you read that made you change your mind.
 
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Lost4words

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Well, I’d still really like know what it was that turned your belief around. I mean, there must’ve been a thing or two that you read that made you change your mind.
It just all made sense to me....
 
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stevevw

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I have believed in both at some point. Its a strange thing that people can come to two completely different beliefs. Sort of like the flat earth situation.

I think theres plenty of evidence for an old earth. Not just in the overall scheme of how the universe came to be and then produced intelligent conscious life. But even within our own recorded history for which we have access to.

We know the Egyptians span millenia and go back to 3000BC and that they had a neolithic culture before that which can be traced back to archeological evidence. Such as the gradual evolution of pottery and tools which took time.

So thats already gets us near to the point of creation and we have not included all the other stuff like Dinos and everything else. Not to mention discoveries like Gobekli Tepe which go back to around 9000BC.

But then I thought why does it matter. Why does the age of the earth matter to God being the creator of what we see. Rather its that God did create what we see regardless and thats the mystery.

I say this because I think to some extent the reality can both scenarios. God could create however He chooses to create. Its just the starting point. But both rely on Gods invisible creation laws and order whether that was from the very beginning or along the way.

Whereever God would have chosen to create reality at a certain stage that then moved forward. The same principle could be applied in reverse. So whatever stage God introduced His creation. I think that same stage would have been reached if God had done this from the beginning. Logically there can be no deviation.
 
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