Good day,
Good day, Dave
I have been doing a considerable amount of work with CHS as of late.
I really have no issue with the quote your have provided it it's context, always best to look at the work that helps understand the question.
In his sermon -
The Spurgeon Library | Faith and Regeneration
He is very clear on the Matter- "We must now pass on to show that WHEREVER IT EXISTS IT IS THE PROOF OF REGENERATION. There never was a grain of such faith as this in the world, except in a regenerate soul, and there never will be while the world standeth. It is so according to the text, and if we had no other testimony this one passage would be quite enough to prove it. "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." "Ah!" I hear thee say, poor soul, "the new birth is a great mystery; I do not understand it; I am afraid I am not a partaker in it." You are born again if you believe that Jesus is the Christ, if you are relying upon a crucified Saviour you are assuredly begotten again unto a lively hope."
The believer sees in the faith, which is simple as the movements of the needle, an indication that God is operating on the human mind, and the spiritual man discerns that there is an inner secret intimated thereby, which the carnal eye cannot decipher. To believe in Jesus is a better indicator of regeneration than anything else, and in no case did it ever mislead.
Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man.
Faith is always the result of the new birth (regeneration) not the cause.... Faith can never exist in the unregenerate.
Bunyan notes "Men that believe in Jesus Christ to the effectual receiving of Jesus Christ, they are born to it. He does not say they shall be born to it, but they are born to it; born of God, unto God, and the things of God, before they receive God to eternal salvation. "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Now unless he be born of God, he cannot see it. Suppose the kingdom of God be what it will, he cannot see it before he be begotten of God; suppose it be the Gospel
, he cannot see it before he be brought into a state of regeneration; believing is the consequence of the new birth, "not of blood, nor of the will of man, but of God."
John Gill -
Of Regeneration | Monergism
Regeneration is signified by "Christ being formed in the heart", #Ga 4:19 his image is stamped in regeneration; not the image of the first Adam, but of the second Adam; for the new man is after the image of him who has anew created it, which is the image of Christ; to be conformed to which God's elect are predestinated, and which takes place in regeneration, #Ro 8:29 Col 3:10. T
he graces of Christ, as faith, and hope, and love, are wrought in the hearts of regenerate persons, and soon appear there; yea, Christ himself lives in them; "Not I", says the apostle, "but Christ lives in me"; he dwells by faith there; Christ, and the believer, mutually dwell in each other.
In Him
Bill
Hey Bill
It's been busy, sorry for the delay.
Bill, I believe that you're reading more into what Spurgeon is said than what he is meant. I could be wrong, but I don't think that he meant that the way that you're taking it. One reason is the quote that I provided. That would be a direct contradiction. Though, people do change their minds. We all have our learning curves on record stored on the internet for all to see with some of the same discrepancies. But consider that the verse he's quoting is also misunderstood and taken way beyond the text by many, even still today. I think it's safe to say that Spurgeon meant what he said, he just didn't mean it in the way that you're taking it. I'll explain....
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.
This passage is often quoted as proof that one must be born again to believe. I think that mistranslation was pointed out very eloquently by Dr. Sam Storms. I believe that he is one of the consensus who believes that the new birth precedes faith. I thank him for his honesty.
Dr. Storms wrote:
"John says in 5:1 that whoever is presently believing in Christ has in the past been born or begotten of God. I.e., a present action of believing is evidence of a past experience of begetting. Is John then saying that new birth or regeneration always precedes and causes saving faith in Christ? Although I believe regeneration (new birth) does precede and cause faith, I do not believe that is John’s point here.
When one examines these texts where the terminology of regeneration is used, one finds that John is concerned with describing the consequences or fruit of the new birth:
Question: “How may I know that regeneration has occurred? How may I know if someone has been born again?”
Answer: “That person will not practice sin (3:9; 5:18). That person will practice righteousness (2:29). That person will love the brethren (4:7). That person will believe in Christ (5:1). And that person will overcome the world (5:4).”
John’s point is simply that these activities are the evidence of the new birth and hence of salvation. Their absence is the evidence that regeneration has not taken place. He makes this point, not because he wants to demonstrate the cause/effect relationship between regeneration and faith, but because he wants to provide the church with tests by which to discern between true and spurious “believers.”" – Dr. Sam Storms
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The same John in his Gospels wrote this as the purpose of his Gospel. John 20:31 (so they may believe)
"but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name."
And later, John wrote this as the purpose of his Epistle, 1 John 5:13 ( to believers, so that they may know they are saved)
" These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."
This verse, 1 John 5:1, if we do not go beyond the text, is really not in conflict with those who believe that being born again is the result of faith. It IS going beyond the text to use it as a proof text to, as Dr. Sam Storms wrote,
"demonstrate the cause/effect relationship between regeneration and faith"
It's really simple. If you believe, you have been born again. Why? Because the initial result of believing is to be born again. If you are presently believing then you have previously been born again when that faith started.
The quote above by DR. Sam Storms was taken from this link
In an earlier post <here> we presented many passages which clearly indicate the ordo salutis (the order of salvation), as expressed by the apostle John when he wrote, “I have written th…
soteriology101.com
I think Spurgeon is saying the same thing. He's just confirming faith as an evidence of an existing regeneration and not trying to prove a cause/effect relationship.
1 John 5:1, John 1:12-13, and John 3:3, none of these actually say what is claimed by todays reformed believers. Yet they build a complete theology based on their definition of mainly these three verses and redefine the Bible with it. These are assumptions, built on assumptions. And when you look to find the foundation of what all these assumptions are built on, there is only more assumptions. Added to that, there is a complete disregard for the nature of the relationship between man and the Holy Spirit from the OT, to the NT. The promises made. The transition at the birth of the Church when these promises began to be realized. These are all ignored.
God is responsible for our changed heart, the moment our life begins in Him. I think that Scripture is clear that the life in question begins when we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That's a problem if the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is received as a result of faith (Galatians 3:2-3). So what motivates that faith? Is it the flesh? Is it God, by other means? To solve that problem, there are those who have the Holy Spirit entering a believer before faith, thus making that life begin before faith. It's an easy fix, but that idea is nowhere found in Scripture and is in fact hostel to Scripture. This is what Spurgeon was criticizing in the quote that I supplied earlier.
Also, the passage that you quoted Romans 8:29, I started a thread on that. In short, it's speaking of OT true believers, the sheep, given to the Son by the Father, Whom He shall not lose one of them, already declared righteous, these were already known by the Father and predestined to be conformed to Christlikeness (NT faith). If you're interested, here's a link.
"The Meaning of Foreknew in Romans 8:29" You may ask why this is in the dispensationalism forum. It's because it has everything to do with the transition from the old Testament to the New Testament. I copied this out of a book that I once owned called "The Five Points of Calvinism, Defined...
www.christianforums.com
Dave
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
