Antinomianism, definition and a Question "is this you"?

SabbathBlessings said:

These appear to be your words, not what Jesus said plainly Mark2:27-28 Isa56:6. Whoever we obey is who we serve. Rom6:16 Why Jesus said to live by His words, not mans and said not to add our words to His. This is telling Him what He says doesn't matter, our words mean more than His.

Click to expand...

No. Those are the words of Mark.

Isa. 56:6 is speaking of converted gentiles to Judaism as that was the way to keep His covenant since the old covenant was made with Israel not with the gentiles in general.

Rom. 6:16- keep reading. You are again reading your pet doctrine into scripture.

“But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

How are we freed from sin? Did the Mosaic law give anyone a way to repentance?

SabbathBlessings said:

There is no Scripture that says this

Click to expand...

Sure there is but it doesn’t work for you.

Hentenza said:

No. Those are the words of Mark.

Isa. 56:6 is speaking of converted gentiles to Judaism as that was the way to keep His covenant since the old covenant was made with Israel not with the gentiles in general.

Click to expand...

Where does it say this? This again appears to be your words trying to override what our Lord said plainly. When does EVERYONE mean Jews? Or where does it say only converted Gentiles to Jews? This is your own doctrine, nothing what the Lord spoke. There is a reason we are told not to add our words to His.

Hentenza said:

Rom. 6:16- keep reading

Click to expand...

Yes, for those who overcome, not everyone does Mat7:23

Hentenza said:

. You are again reading your pet doctrine into scripture.

“But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Romans 6:17-18 (NASB2020) - But thanks be to God that though yo | YouVersion

But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to r

bible.com

How are we freed from sin? Did the Mosaic law give anyone a way to repentance?

Sure there is but it doesn’t work for you.

Click to expand...

I can see why you wanted to change the argument once again. You couldn’t make your initial argument in Mar2:27-28 work without severely editing what Jesus said and instead of correcting our doctrine as we are told 2Tim3:16 just went to the next argument where the is Lord speaking again, and the words you claim He is saying is no where to be found in the Text.

SabbathBlessings said:

Where does it say this? This again appears to be your words trying to override what our Lord said plainly. When does EVERYONE mean Jews? Or where does it say only converted Gentiles to Jews? This is your own doctrine, nothing what the Lord spoke. There is a reason we are told not to add our words to His.

Click to expand...

Since the law was given to Israel and not the gentiles (Exodus 20:22) then those spoken about in Isaiah 56:6 are indeed converts to Judaism as they dwelled with Israel. Those were the gerim which adopted Israel’s ways include following the law, like Rahab and Ruth.

SabbathBlessings said:

Yes, for those who overcome, not everyone does Mat7:23

Click to expand...

And yet:

“Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭25‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

SabbathBlessings said:

I can see why you wanted to change the argument once again. You couldn’t make your initial argument in Mar2:27-28 work without severely editing what Jesus said and instead of correcting our doctrine as we are told 2Tim3:16 just went to the next argument where the is Lord speaking again, and the words you claim He is saying is no where to be found in the Text.

Click to expand...

How did I change the argument when I replied to your verse mining? You quoted Rom. 6:16 in an island and ignored what came next. I merely corrected your error. But, of course, you had to accuse me of something to detract from your mistake. That’s typical.

Btw- you never addressed my argument for Mark 2:27-28 but you insist that it doesn’t work. Just because you say so is not evidence.

Hentenza said:

Since the law was given to Israel and not the gentiles (Exodus 20:22) then those spoken about in Isaiah 56:6 are indeed converts to Judaism as they dwelled with Israel. Those were the gerim which adopted Israel’s ways include following the law, like Rahab and Ruth.

Click to expand...

Just like we are adopted in and part of the promises Gal3:26-29. Israel was never meant to be literal but represented God's people who He called Israel His son Exo4:22, if it was literal that would mean Adam.

Hentenza said:

And yet:

“Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭25‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 10:25-30 (NASB2020) - Jesus answered them, “I told you, a | YouVersion

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. My sheep listen to My v

bible.com

Click to expand...

And yet you teach that those who follow Jesus do not listen to His words Mark2:27 or follow in His example Luke4:16 1John2:6 or believe His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 that He promised not to alter His words Psa89:23 Deut4:13 why He says to hold fast My covenant Isa56:6 not toss it aside.

Hentenza said:

Btw- you never addressed my argument for Mark 2:27-28 but you insist that it doesn’t work. Just because you say so is not evidence.

Click to expand...

How does one address an argument that doesn't exist in Scripture. Trying to reason with someone who thinks their words are the same as God's words, is not fruitful.

This usually goes into the same place, and we are not able to reason together, so I am moving on. God will sort this out soon enough.

SabbathBlessings said:

Just like we are adopted in and part of the promises Gal3:26-29. Israel was never meant to be literal but represented God's people who He called Israel His son Exo4:22, if it was literal that would mean Adam.

Click to expand...

So the people calling themselves Israel that waited at the bottom of the mountain and that Moses addressed were not Israel?

What is not literal is Exodus 4:22 even though Israel was indeed Gods first born but it does not refer to Adam.

SabbathBlessings said:

And yet you teach that those who follow Jesus do not listen to His words Mark2:27

Click to expand...

Nope. Never taught that but you do as you ignore verse 28. You refuse to give up your legalistic ideology.

SabbathBlessings said:

or follow in His example Luke4:16 1John2:6 or believe His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 that He promised not to alter His words Psa89:23 Deut4:13 why He says to hold fast My covenant Isa56:6 not toss it aside.

Click to expand...

Already addressed these.

SabbathBlessings said:

How does one address an argument that doesn't exist in Scripture. Trying to reason with someone who thinks their words are the same as God's words, is not fruitful.

Click to expand...

Exactly. Your argument is not scriptural. You read your doctrines into the scriptures and then pretend that error works. You need to actually read what the result of Jesus redemptive sacrifice means and what the actual definition and application of justification is.

SabbathBlessings said:

This usually goes into the same place, and we are not able to reason together, so I am moving on. God will sort this out soon enough.

Click to expand...

We can’t reason together because you are a hostage to your legalistic doctrines. The Bible is super clear that the law is not part of the new covenant and that Christ nailed it to the cross. But you want believers to return to the law that profits nothing so that they can save themselves and become slaves again.

I know that you are not moving on because you can’t stand it not having the last word. Another trait of legalism.

Legalisms is the opposite to Antinomianism and just as destructive if not more. The definition of Legalism is as follows:

FTG’s Expanded Explanation: Legalism treats moral behaviors and obedience to God’s Law as to how you achieve salvation. This leads to a primary emphasis on behavior modification and rarely focuses on heart transformation. Legalism aims to fix someone’s behavior without ever focusing on their heart and is the opposite extreme of another term we’ve defined: Antinomianism. Since people who are antinomian believe that there is no need to obey the Law of God because we are under grace, people who practice legalism believe that keeping religious laws will make them good enough to earn grace. Legalism is practiced by religions which teaches that you must perform certain acts to keep your salvation. Legalism adds human rules to the Law of God. Legalism believes that your good works save you and keep you saved. Legalism knowingly or unknowingly makes your relationship with God a set of religious rules, rather than a desire for obedience out of genuine love for God. Legalism leads to a lifestyle of rule-keeping and outward moralism but does not save your soul.


The SDA church requires strict adherence to parts of the law. The consider those that do not strictly keep the Jewish sabbath to be sinners because they consider the 4th commandment to be strictly a moral commandment. In addition to the sabbath keeping they also keep the dietary laws. A good portion of the SDA adherents become vegetarians because they buy into the error that the early inhabitants of earth only ate veggies and they keep the Mosaic law in relation to prohibited foods like pork or shell fish. They also require a relatively strict lifestyle and dress.

The arguments in the op and other proponents center on the arguments that those for antinomianism would make but that is not what non legalists are arguing but an attempt to show that either one agrees with the legalism of the SDA or one is a heretic. The argument, of course, fails.