BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

Strong in Him · Nov 10, 2025

keras said:
Yes, the pattern is that if a Prophecy which can happen literally, but does not conform to a pre-conceived belief, then it is dismissed

The pattern is that you're dismissing/ignoring what Scripture says because it doesn't fit with your beliefs.

The measurements are wrong for a modern nuclear bomb? No problem, Zechariah was only guessing the measurements.
The statement that the scroll and basket are two different objects? Ignore the fact that Hebrew probably uses two different words, and insist that they are both the same.

We should allow Scripture to shape us and not allow our ideas to shape/rewrite Scripture.

David Lamb · Nov 10, 2025

Strong in Him said:
The pattern is that you're dismissing/ignoring what Scripture says because it doesn't fit with your beliefs.

The measurements are wrong for a modern nuclear bomb? No problem, Zechariah was only guessing the measurements.
The statement that the scroll and basket are two different objects? Ignore the fact that Hebrew probably uses two different words, and insist that they are both the same.

We should allow Scripture to shape us and not allow our ideas to shape/rewrite Scripture.

I don't know Hebrew, but a look in the Concordance shows me that the Hebrew word translated "scroll" is m gillah. The Hebrew word translated "basket" is eyphah, which is the same word sometimes used for the measurement "ephah." So Hebrew definitely does use two completely different words for "scroll" and "basket."

Kathleen30 · Nov 10, 2025

keras said:
Yes, the pattern is that if a Prophecy which can happen literally, but does not conform to a pre-conceived belief, then it is dismissed and relegated to either- Just a spiritual pronouncement, - Already happened in the past, - or just a meaningless and inconsequential Bible passage.

Zechariah 9:1-6, has more to say about the Lords plans for the ME area. ....Gaza will write in terror...their leaders will be gone.....

Keras with the quotation of Zachariah 9:1-6 you mention. It goes on to mention the destruction of Tyre which had flourished under King Hiram the 1st from 1000BC. they boasted and trusted in their power as masters of the sea. Part of the prophecy you mention is already fulfilled prophecy. Alexander the Great through a monumental feat of engineering used some 20,000 men to build a causeway out to the island of tyre completed in332 BC. In 332 BC Tyre was no more . And Gaza did not fare much better in future campaigns. Much of what you are quoting is already fulfilled scripture. I thought I might bring that to your attention. Perhaps you did not know . I only point that out to you for you to perhaps further reevaluate your conclusion on such scriptures . Yours Kathleen

keras · Nov 10, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
Keras with the quotation of Zachariah 9:1-6 you mention. It goes on to mention the destruction of Tyre which had flourished under King Hiram the 1st from 1000BC. they boasted and trusted in their power as masters of the sea. Part of the prophecy you mention is already fulfilled prophecy. Alexander the Great through a monumental feat of engineering used some 20,000 men to build a causeway out to the island of tyre completed in332 BC. In 332 BC Tyre was no more . And Gaza did not fare much better in future campaigns. Much of what you are quoting is already fulfilled scripture. I thought I might bring that to your attention. Perhaps you did not know . I only point that out to you for you to perhaps further reevaluate your conclusion on such scriptures . Yours Kathleen

There are many Prophesies which have a dual fulfilment. Even triple. Tye remains as a city today.
This does not mean that a final and complete fulfilment won't happen in the future.

There are several Prophesies that say how the entire Middle East region, will be depopulated and cleansed. How the Lord Himself will send fire to achieve it. In a disastrous event, of a similar magnitude as Noah's flood.

keras · Nov 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
I don't know Hebrew, but a look in the Concordance shows me that the Hebrew word translated "scroll" is m gillah. The Hebrew word translated "basket" is eyphah, which is the same word sometimes used for the measurement "ephah." SoHebrew definitely does use two completely different words for "scroll" and "basket."

Sure; they are different objects.
The 'scroll' refers to the outer casing of a missile and the 'ephah', refers to its contents.

I am quite astounded at the reaction of some people to my understanding of Zechariah 5.
Zechariah was one of God's Prophets. He accurately Prophesied Jesus riding a donkey. Zech 9:9 He informs us that the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse were operating in ancient times; Zech 1:8-10 & 6:1-8
He saw how Iran has prepared nuke missiles, Zech 5, and he saw how the Lord will prevail over those attackers and protect His own peoples. Zechariah 9:13-16
THEN Zechariah 8:1-9 says how the Lords Holy peoples will inherit Zion and build the new Temple.
Why do people think all this is impossible?

keras · Nov 10, 2025

The Prophet Zechariah – The Lord Remembers:
Zechariah 1:1-21, Zechariah 2:1-12 The Lord was very angry with the forefathers of the Israelites for their sins and apostasy. They experienced the fulfilment of His threats and decrees against them and were punished as their deeds deserved1. But now, if you turn to Him, He will turn again to you. Do not be like your ancestors who failed to heed the prophets.

The Lord says: I am very concerned for Jerusalem and the holy Land and now I am exceedingly angry with those nations who have harmed My people and encroached upon their heritage2. They have caused distress and harm far beyond what I had planned for them. For they are My chosen flock and it is My holy Land.
[The ‘chosen people; now every faithful Christian. John 15:16, 1 Peter 2:9-10]

The Lord has sent me on a glorious mission to those peoples who have injured His people and plundered His Land. The Lord will shake His Right hand over His enemies3 and they, in turn will be injured and plundered.

Be silent before the Lord; all of humanity, for He comes out now from His dwelling place in heaven, to judge the nations4 and punish all His enemies. Four destroyers will come against the four empires that scattered Israel and Judah5 and those peoples who destroyed Jerusalem will in turn be destroyed.

Therefore I will come back to Zion with mercy and compassion. My House will be built again in Jerusalem6 and the Land will brim with prosperity7, for I will bless My righteous people and give them peace. Very soon Jerusalem will become so populated8, it will be too big for walls to surround it, but the Lord will be like a fire of protection around it and His glory will come back to the new Temple9. Many nations will be joined with the Lord and will become His people.

Rejoice now, My people, for I am coming to rescue you and My spirit will rest upon you10. Judah will be My special portion and I will make Jerusalem My choice.
Ref: REB, CJB, NIV. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.

1/ Both Israel and Judah were conquered and taken into exile as decreed: Ezekiel 4:4-6, Leviticus 26:18-28, Isaiah 9:11-13, Jeremiah 32:21-23
Ethnicity is now of no consequence. God's peoples are now the faithful Christians.

2/ All the unrighteous now living in all of the holy Land: Jer. 12-14, Isaiah 63:18 They will all be gone.

3/ God’s Right hand – the Lord Jesus: Psalms 2:7-9, Isaiah 41:10, Luke 3:22 His Day of vengeance and wrath, Isaiah 61:2

4/ The judgement/punishment of the nations: Hab. 3:12, Psalms 59:5, Rev. 6:12-17

5/ The four Empires: Assyria, Babylon, Rome and now Islam. Isa. 54:16 The Lord used other nations to destroy the first three, the fourth- He will destroy. Ezekiel 30:1-5, Psalm 83, Isaiah 13:9-13, Zephaniah 3:8, Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35

6/ The third Temple, built by the true Israelites: Ezekiel 40 – 44, Zech. 6:15

7/ All the holy Land from the Nile to the Euphrates will be regenerated and become fertile and productive. Ezekiel 36:8, Isaiah 35:1-2

8/ By the millions who love the Lord and keep His Laws: Isaiah 49:19-20, Ezekiel 37:26

9/ The Shekinah Glory will again reside in the Holy of Holies: Eze. 43:2, 2 Thess. 1:10

10/ The Lord will pour out His spirit upon His people: Eze 39:29, Isa. 59:21, Eze. 36:26

Hosea 14:9 Israel will again dwell in My shadow, they will grow and flourish like a vine. ‘in My shadow’, in the same way as He did for ancient Israel. This will happen before the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.
Isaiah 25:9 On that Day, the people will say: See this is our God, we waited for Him and He will deliver us. This is the Lord in whom we trusted, let us rejoice and exult in His deliverance.

Kathleen30 · Nov 11, 2025

keras said:
There are many Prophesies which have a dual fulfilment. Even triple. Tye remains as a city today.
This does not mean that a final and complete fulfilment won't happen in the future.

There are several Prophesies that say how the entire Middle East region, will be depopulated and cleansed. How the Lord Himself will send fire to achieve it. In a disastrous event, of a similar magnitude as Noah's flood.

Keras that’s very true sometimes prophesies have dual fulfilment as with Tyre and the surrounding nations such as Egypt and Gaza and as mentioned in Ezekiel 26:14 and with Zech 9 : 1-6. But the scriptures were fulfilled nevertheless. Firstly with king Nebuchadnezzar’s destruction of much of the area from 586 BC -573 along with the siege of tyre of that period but never fully destroying the power base of the island of tyre itself. But the final fulfillment did come under Alexander the Great with his conquest of tyre and the neighbouring nations from 332 BC

Keras you mention that Tyre remains a city today and that it does under its new name Sur and people certainly still live there . But this is where we probably disagree. As it was never about the obliteration of the entirety of the people’s. It was about the obliteration of Tyre’s political standing as a power house mercantile nation. And even with the subsequent towns and settlements that arose out of the ashes they did not equate to the previous standing cities nor of Tyres once monumental standing. It was basically the end of the power of the Tyrian empire along with the fulfilment of where Scripture ended on the prophecy with the conquest of Tyre by Alexander the Great along with the judgements upon other surrounding nations like Gaza and Egypt too. So from what me has studied biblical prophecy isn’t always meaning the entire depopulation of peoples but rather in judgement of their their nation status as a sovereign influential power upon world events . Yours Kathleen

keras · Nov 11, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
But the scriptures were fulfilled nevertheless.

Not yet.
Isaiah 23:1-18 is instructive;
When Alexander the Great conquered ancient Tyre, he built a causeway out to the city. The people who were Israelites, mostly from the tribe of Asher, could see their demise was imminent, so they took to their ships and sailed away to settle in a far off land. Exactly as Isaiah 23:7b says.

In due course of time, they became great again. Their sea fortress; London, became the marketplace for the nations and they have founded colonies in distant places.

Now, be dismayed, for you have lost your military power and your Empire!
World Wars 1 and 2 bled the British Empire dry.

After the Lord has cleared and cleansed the Holy Land, they will support the new nation of Beulah, all the Lord’s faithful Christian peoples, living in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5
Tribute will be brought to them from America and Britain. Isaiah 18:7

The total and complete clearing and cleansing of ALL the Holy Land, as many Prophesies say; Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, Deuteronomy 32:34-43,
is yet to happen. Could be very soon!

Kathleen30 · Nov 13, 2025

keras said:
Not yet.
Isaiah 23:1-18 is instructive;
When Alexander the Great conquered ancient Tyre, he built a causeway out to the city. The people who were Israelites, mostly from the tribe of Asher, could see their demise was imminent, so they took to their ships and sailed away to settle in a far off land. Exactly as Isaiah 23:7b says.

In due course of time, they became great again. Their sea fortress; London, became the marketplace for the nations and they have founded colonies in distant places.

Now, be dismayed, for you have lost your military power and your Empire!
World Wars 1 and 2 bled the British Empire dry.

After the Lord has cleared and cleansed the Holy Land, they will support the new nation of Beulah, all the Lord’s faithful Christian peoples, living in all of the holy Land. Isaiah 62:1-5
Tribute will be brought to them from America and Britain. Isaiah 18:7

The total and complete clearing and cleansing of ALL the Holy Land, as many Prophesies say; Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, Deuteronomy 32:34-43,
is yet to happen. Could be very soon!

Keras when thinking upon the evacuation from Tyre, there certainly were evacuations prior to the attack that being mainly of the elderly, woman and children to conserve on resources such as water and food prior and during Alexander’s siege they certainly had many other colonies for safe haven to do so. But as to the tribe of Asher fleeing on the Tyrian flotilla. I not so sure about that. The tribe of Asher was one of the 10 tribes from the northern kingdom were they not . I thought when the Nothern kingdom fell in the 735-720 campaigns . They were uprooted and deported into Assyria as per Assyrian policy and integrated into many Assyrian townships. The 10 tribes locations were known well enough outside the boundaries of Israel and where they were located in some New Testament references prior to the destruction of the temple in 70AD. After that destruction much is lost in histoy.and the sand dunes of time

But back to Tyre . Israel certainly had good relations with Tyre. Some call it the golden age of Israel. More so with King David and king Solomon with the building of the temple, trade agreements and interaction of other pleasures with extra wives and concubines that King Solomon did very much enjoy with his friendship with Tyre . Whether Jews were a large part of the Tyrian community at the time of Alexander’s the Greats invasion of Tyre. And more so from the tribe of Asher’ I have not been able to ascertain. Yours Kathleen

keras · Nov 13, 2025

Kathleen30 said:
. Whether Jews were a large part of the Tyrian community at the time of Alexander’s the Greats invasion of Tyre

This is where confusion starts. Calling one of the 10 Northern tribes. - Jews.
The 10 tribes of Israel separated from the 2 tribes of Judah in King Rehoboam's time. They remain separated today.
We know who are Jewish; about half now occupying a small part of the Holy Land and the rest still in diaspora.

And although it is God's secret, we can identify most of the descendants of House of Israel, now scattered around the world, by the fact of their Christianity.
THEY are the people Jesus came to save; Matthew 15:24, He succeeded very well.
All will be revealed soon, but for sure - Only those faithful Christian peoples; Jew, Gentile and from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 7:9, will go to live in the Promised Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26

30 days

FreeinChrist · Nov 22, 2025

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up. Please avoid flaming.

keras · Nov 23, 2025

Jeremiah 8:10 I will give the Land to new owners:
Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.
On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.

This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is desecrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14
...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?
Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.
It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, is one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

Psalms 107 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, describe how the Lord will help His people to travel to the holy Land.

truthuprootsevil · Tuesday at 8:30 PM

keras said:
Many wrong beliefs have been accepted by Christians. Ideas and theories which have no proper Biblical support and in most cases are directly Spoken against.

1/ The Church is raptured to heaven:
Jesus said 3 times, that we must endure until the end. Matthew 24:13

The holy peoples of God are present in the Holy Land in the end times. Rev 13:7

The righteous will possess the Land and live there forever. Psalms 37:29

2/ Preterism -the belief that most Prophesies have happened in the past:
Disproved by the historical facts. What is Prophesied does not match past events.

Psalms 83 actually refers to past battles, as examples of future ones.

2 Peter 1:19 tells everyone to study the Prophesies for our enlightenment.

3/ An ethnic Jewish redemption:
Many Prophesies tell of the virtual demise of the Jews who are mostly those who wrongly call themselves Jews; Revelation 2:9b, Isaiah 22:14, Ezekiel 21:1-7

This false idea was made up to support the rapture;- Jewish Israel on earth and the Church in heaven. Neither is Biblical and neither will happen.

4/ AMillenniumism, - we are in the Millennium now:
This idea, is patently wrong as Jesus is not now ruling the world. Matthew 4:8-9
Revelation 20 mentions a thousand year period after Jesus Returns; 6 times.

The thousand years will be the Sabbath period, the last tranche of the 7000 year time for God’s Plan for mankind to be completed.

5/ We are in the new Covenant with God now:
Jesus fulfilled His part of the new Covenant at the Last Supper.

But it will not be until all the Christian peoples are gathered into all of the holy Land, that the holy people of God, will make the New Covenant with Him. Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 34:24-31, Isaiah 61:8, Hebrews 8:8-12, - all remain unfulfilled.

6/ A new Temple:
Those who say: We Christians are the Temple of God, - are correct for this 2000 year Church age. That truth does not preclude a new Temple being built in Jerusalem.

Men will come from far away to build it, Zechariah 6:15, and it will be greater than the former ones. Haggai 2:9. Ezekiel 40 to 43:17, specifies the construction of it.

7/ Jesus is the one and only Sacrifice for our sins:
True, but God does not change, Malachi 3:6, and He will require thank offerings and sacrifices for inadvertent sins, in the Temple. Ezekiel 43:18 to 46:24, Zechariah 14:16-21, and Daniel 9:27 proves that Temple sacrifices will be made again.

Isaiah 56:1-8….Their offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My Altar….

8/ Jewish Israelis own the holy Land:
They now have control of a small part of the holy Land, but they are in apostasy and punishment is Prophesied – with only a Christian remnant surviving. Romans 9:27

Jesus said: the Kingdom is taken from you and given to the peoples who bear the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43 I will uproot the evil neighbours and Judah too; I will uproot. Only those who follow the Way of Life, can live there. Jeremiah 12:14

I will give the Land to new owners…..Jeremiah 8:1-13 My chosen ones will live there Isaiah 65:9

9/ We Christians are conscious after death:
The dead know nothing; Eccl 9;5-6, and cannot praise God. Psalms 115:17

David sleeps in his grave ….. Acts 13:36

Only after the Millennium, at the Great White Throne Judgment, everyone who has ever lived will stand before God. Revelation 20:11-15 In a Spiritually aware state

10/ The Anti-Christ [beast] will be a Jew, he will purport to be the Messiah;
Nahum 1:11 From you Assyria, comes a wicked councillor, one who plots evil against the Lord. 2 Thess 2:4 He will sit in the Temple, demanding worship of himself; or the penalty of death. Revelation 13:8

11/ The Return of Jesus will be like a thief;- unexpected:
This belief is extremely presumptuous and is downright disgusting.

Jesus will Return in glory; with the trumpet blast of God, 1 Thess 4:16 and be seen by all. Revelation 1:7, Rev 19:11-21

The unexpected Day, will be the terrible Day the Lord sends Hs fiery wrath, which will come without warning, shocking everyone and changing the world. Rev 6:11-17

12/ The Sixth Seal is a localized event and is part of the Great Tribulation:
The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will commence all of the end time Prophesies.

Terrible signs in the sky with the seas roaring and surging, people will be terrified and not know which way to turn. Luke 21:25-26 & 35, it will come upon everyone the whole world over.

Isaiah 34:1-8 Listen; you peoples …the Lord ‘s anger is against all the nations. He gives them over to slaughter and destruction. The heavens will be rolled up, Revelation 6:14, and the mountains moved. For the Lord has a Day of vengeance with His Sword of retribution. Hebrews 10:27 & 30

In order for us to be prepared for the dramatic and testing times ahead we should be sure of what the Lord has told us, thru His Prophets. For the faithful and ready people, who know what to expect, it will be bearable. But to many the shock and terror may be unbearable.

Keraz

Doesn't return like a thief in the night simply means his "unexpected return," even when the whole world see him and his angels coming from the clouds, people won't be expecting him. Well that's what I hear the majority of preachers say. You may hear differently.

The Liturgist · Tuesday at 8:43 PM

keras said:
Jeremiah 8:10 I will give the Land to new owners:
Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction and trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.
On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.

This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is desecrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14
...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?
Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.
It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

The great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, is one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

Psalms 107 and Isaiah 66:18b-21, describe how the Lord will help His people to travel to the holy Land.

And you support for this other than your own interpretation / private experiences is … ?

According to 1 Corinthians 11:2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2:37, the Apostolic Tradition has authority - the beliefs of the traditional churches (Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican, Catholic, the Assyrian Church of the East - yes, did you know Assyrians are Christians and are indeed among the most persecuted Christians on Earth? And since Assyria no longer exists as a country, an alternative interpretation must be sought, but also there’s the whole thing of typological prophecy, which you’re ignoring in favor of a literalism that exceeds that of even Theodore of Mopsuestia), and other traditional liturgical churches - have a witness, a link to the Apostles, in the form of our worship services, our lectionary, the ancient Creeds, and other things.

keras · 2025-12-17T01:43:47-0600

truthuprootsevil said:
Doesn't return like a thief in the night simply means his "unexpected return," even when the whole world see him and his angels coming from the clouds, people won't be expecting him. Well that's what I hear the majority of preachers say. You may hear differently.

The glorious Return of Jesus will not be a surprise to anyone with a Bible, as it will come exactly 1260 days after the 'beast' desecrates the Temple.

It will be the soon to happen, sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath, that comes 'like a thief'. Some years before Jesus Returns, as set out in Revelation.

The Liturgist said:
And you support for this other than your own interpretation / private experiences is … ?

The support for Gods people going to live in all of the Holy Land is;
1/ That area is special to God; Deuteronomy 11:11-12
2/ It was Promised to Abrahams descendants, who are now every faithful believer in God and Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29
3/ We Christians are the Holy peoples of God and Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7 say we are present in Jerusalem during the period of Satanic world control.

The Liturgist · 2025-12-17T02:53:37-0600

keras said:
The glorious Return of Jesus will not be a surprise to anyone with a Bible, as it will come exactly 1260 days after the 'beast' desecrates the Temple.

It will be the soon to happen, sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath, that comes 'like a thief'. Some years before Jesus Returns, as set out in Revelation.

The support for Gods people going to live in all of the Holy Land is;
1/ That area is special to God; Deuteronomy 11:11-12
2/ It was Promised to Abrahams descendants, who are now every faithful believer in God and Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29
3/ We Christians are the Holy peoples of God and Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7 say we are present in Jerusalem during the period of Satanic world control.

Again, that’s your interpretation, but 2 Peter 1:20 devalues that. I think it not unreasonable in light of 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2:37, etc, to request some Patristic context beyond merely asserting scripture says X (which is debateable; you’ve presented a subjective interpretation of prophetic texts rendered even more problematic by your claim that the New Testament assertion, in inspired Scripture, that Christ our True God will return “like a thief in the night” is wrong and even “disgusting” - despite being stated not only in the Pauline epistles but in canonical Gospel verses like Matthew 24:43, and indeed Revelation 16:15.

The problem here is that you seem to be not only cherry picking verses to interpret literally, but even which verses are sound and which ones are “disgusting” which is why I ask for clarification, since right now, it seems like you’re asking us to believe a doctrine not taught by any extant church because of a private revelation, even contra scriptura.

truthuprootsevil · 2025-12-17T10:13:20-0600

keras said:
The glorious Return of Jesus will not be a surprise to anyone with a Bible, as it will come exactly 1260 days after the 'beast' desecrates the Temple.

I'm not for sure about that, there are many who wear the cloak of Christians and lack true belief. As the Lord said many serve them with their lips but their hearts so far from him.
Matthew 15:8 These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. Matthew 15:8 - Tradition and Worship

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Matthew 7:21 - A Tree and its Fruit

Jesus said no one knows the DAY or the HOUR so how can it be said it would be 1260 days after the beast desecrates the temple, that statement seems to imply absoluteness.
Matthew 24:36 KJV - But of that day and hour knoweth no - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:36 - King James Version

keras said:
It will be the soon to happen, sudden and shocking Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath, that comes 'like a thief'. Some years before Jesus Returns, as set out in Revelation.

Not sure what you're saying. You seem to be saying the Lord will send his wrath "like a thief" and the return of Jesus will not be like a thief.

keras said:
The support for Gods people going to live in all of the Holy Land is;
1/ That area is special to God; Deuteronomy 11:11-12
2/ It was Promised to Abrahams descendants, who are now every faithful believer in God and Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29
3/ We Christians are the Holy peoples of God and Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7 say we are present in Jerusalem during the period of Satanic world control.

Are you speaking of the thousand year the people will spend with Jesus.

Revelation 20:4-6 NKJV - The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 - Bible Gateway Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 20:4-6 - New King James Version

Satan already has control of this world, Paul refers to Satan as God of this world
2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The Light of the Gospel

Strong in Him · 2025-12-17T10:32:53-0600

truthuprootsevil said:
Not sure what you're saying. You seem to be saying the Lord will send his wrath "like a thief" and the return of Jesus will not be like a thief.

I think Keras believes there will be a "day of the Lord" - which was what OT Jews were looking forward to - aka outpouring of God's wrath, THEN Jesus will return.
I haven't worked out how our Lord's return will be "as a thief in the night" and on a day and hour that no one is expecting, and be in about 15-20 years time after certain other things have happened.

No doubt Keras has some sort of explanation; whether it is Scriptural, is another matter.

keras · 2025-12-17T13:11:43-0600

Time for some genuine understanding:
Two Days of the Lord:
1/ 1 Thessalonians 4:16 When the Command is given, when the Archangels voice is heard, when God’s Trumpet sounds, then the Lord Himself will descend from heaven...
This prophesies the glorious Return of Jesus to gather His faithful Christian peoples to where He is; in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:30-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:17

2/ 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 About dates and times, my friends, there is no need to write to you. For you know perfectly well that the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.
While other people are saying: Now we have peace and safety, then; sudden destruction will come upon them.... and there will be no escape.
Are these prophesies talking about the same event?

The Book of Revelation is where we can find a sequence of the end times events.
In Revelation 6:12-17, the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, by fire, storms, earthquakes and tsunamis is described, plus over 100 other prophesies also describe this Day of vengeance, His fury and anger against the nations. The Lord is not seen on this Day. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4 BEFORE the Return!

The Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath, as the Son of Man, is the sudden, shocking and unexpected Day, a world changer, which will set the stage for the establishment of a One World Govt. Daniel 7:23-27, Revelation 13:1-8
The faithful Christian peoples, will pass safely through this literal Day of worldwide disaster. We are told what to do: Call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13

The Day of the Lord’s glorious Return; As the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Much has to happen before we get to Revelation 19:11-13, where Jesus is described as coming in garments already splashed in blood. Got from His previous Day of vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 63:1-6 and Revelation 14:17-20
It will NOT be unexpected; heralded by God and the angels and NOT a surprise, as He will Return exactly 1260 days, [42 months] after Satan desecrates the Temple. Daniel 9:27b, Revelation 13:5

Jesus destroys the attacking armies at Armageddon by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan. He just separates the nations at this time. Matthew 25:31-33
Jesus then commences His thousand year earthly reign, on David’s Throne, in the new Temple in Jerusalem. As Isaiah 65:18-25, Zechariah 14:16-21 describe.

Conclusion: 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Thess 5:1-3 are about 2 separate Days, several years apart. Paul; like the other Prophets, doesn’t put them into their correct sequence.
The final Judgment happens after the Millennium. Matthew 25:46, Revelation 20:11-15 Then comes Eternity.

Who believes that Amos 5:18-20 is a Prophecy about the glorious Return?
Suss it out and get over your wrong beliefs: There are TWO forthcoming Days of the Lord. One in wrath, the next in Glory. Simple, really!

keras · 2025-12-17T13:41:50-0600

truthuprootsevil said:
Not sure what you're saying. You seem to be saying the Lord will send his wrath "like a thief" and the return of Jesus will not be like a thief.

Correct. That IS what the Bible Prophets tell us.

truthuprootsevil said:
Are you speaking of the thousand year the people will spend with Jesus.

No, that comes after Jesus Returns.
The 3 points I said in #335, will happen soon after the Lords Day of fiery wrath. At least ten years before the Return.
Many Prophesies tell about the holy Land being lived in by Gods faithful peoples. How God will destroy a huge army that attacks them, [Gog from Magog] And how the Lord will take them to a place of safety on earth, for the 3 1/2 year period of Satanic control. Rev 12:14

I have said and I say again; it is somewhat disgusting to compare the glorious Return of Jesus, to the actions of a thief.

BUSTED - 12 False theories refuted:

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