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keras · 2025-12-14T18:27:47-0600

eclipsenow said:
It depends on the verses we are looking at.

There is plenty of verses that prove that the Lords Christian peoples will go to live in all of the Holy Land. The culmination of the whole saga of the Middle East region.

At the great gathering into the promised Land, as described to us by the prophets, the Lord’s righteous people: every faithful Christian, will march proudly to music as they enter their heritage. Ephesians 1:10-14 Their Redeemer and Deliverer is waiting to show them His favour, He will guide and protect them, in the same manner as He did with their ancestors during the Exodus from Egypt. 1 Corinthians 10:1-5 The Land will blossom and flourish, Isaiah 35:1-10 and they will live there in peace and security, excepting for a 3½ year period of world control by the Anti- Christ ‘beast’. Rev 13:5
After that will come the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign. Matthew 24:30-31

Isaiah 30:18 Yet the Lord is waiting to show you His favour, He yearns to have pity on you. Happy are those who wait on Him!

Ezekiel 20:34-38 By My strong arm and outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from among the peoples and gather you from the lands where you have been dispersed. I shall bring you into a desert place and bring you into judgement, as I did with your ancestors out of Egypt. I shall pass you under the rod of judgement and count you as you enter Israel. Those who revolt and rebel against Me will not enter the Land.

‘outpoured wrath’ refers to the next prophesied event – the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath and vengeance, that destroys His enemies and cleanses the Land by fire. The Christian Israelites will then march into and take over all that area promised, so long ago to Abraham.

Ezekiel 36:8 You: Land of Israel – grow your trees and yield your fruit, for the homecoming of My people, Israel, is near.

Micah 4:6 On that Day, I shall gather those who are lost, I shall assemble the dispersed.

Micah 2:12 I will assemble you, the whole House of Jacob. [now every faithful Christian] I will gather you together with those remaining in Israel and herd them like sheep in a fold.

Jeremiah 3:22 Come back, you apostate people and I shall heal you. Here we are, our God, we are coming back to You.

Jeremiah 31:8-9 See how I bring My people from the ends of the earth, a vast company – they come home, weeping and repentant. I shall comfort them and lead them on smooth paths.

Isaiah 43:19 I am about to do something new, can you see it? I will make a path for My people.

Isaiah 58:11 The Lord will guide you, He will satisfy your needs in the desert and give strength.

Isaiah 62:10 Pass through the gates, clear a road for My people and mark their way.

Isaiah 42:16 Without fail, I shall lead the blind and guide My people along paths unknown to them.

Psalms 68:7-9 The Lord, leading His people, marching through the desert- the earth shakes and rain pours down. Isaiah 44:3

Isaiah 30:29 For you there will be joyful singing, as you march into Israel, the Holy Land of God.

Isaiah 40:26-31 Lift your eyes to the heavens, consider your Creator, He leads His people out – each summoned by name, none are missing. He gives strength to the exhausted and those who look to Him will not faint, they march as on eagles wings.

Obadiah 19:21 My people will possess the Negev, Samaria, Northern and southern Jordan and all the coastlands of the Mediterranean.

Isaiah 49:8-11 The Lord says: In the time of My favour, on the Day of Deliverance, I will come to your aid, you are My people destined to be a light to the nations and to restore the Land. Go free now and in the Land you will find food and water in plenty. It will not be too hot when the One who loves them will guide them along highways. My people, coming from all parts of the world, will shout for joy as they enter their Land. For God has comforted His people in their distress. Reference REB. Some verses abridged.

keras · 2025-12-14T18:35:02-0600

eclipsenow said:
Revelation is a waltz, not a timeline.

This idea is disproven by the many references to time periods in Revelation.

eclipsenow said:
It's a sermon on suffering that repeatedly reminds us the Lord will return one day and sort all this out, not a future timetable to decode like some B-Grade Dan Brown novel.

Revelation is the best information we have about our future. It is a sequence of events, interspersed with flashbacks. The truths of our future.
I would say that Dan Brown uses the Revelation format to peddle his fictional books.

eclipsenow · 2025-12-14T18:37:29-0600

You've got Revelation 6 all wrong.
Nerfing this to a mere CME is appalling!
Read. In. CONTEXT!

What is happening here? What is the question - the concern of the passage?

Revelation 6

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

The concern is justice.
It's not just Babylon, or Rome, or some modern nation (in the never ending futurist game of "pin-the-tail on the anti-Christ.")
It's universal.
It's judging the 'inhabitants of the whole earth.'

12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

This is the same Apocalyptic Symbolism for the challenging of worldly kingdoms and authorities - but escalated to a whole new scale - with stars falling, the heavens receding, and mountains and islands being moved!

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Note that they are NOT saying "Oh no - look what the sun has done!"
They're saying, "Oh no - GOD is here!"

Your Sci-Fi reading of this THEOLOGICAL passage may as well cut half the verses out of it, given the way your Hollywood reading nerfs it so much!

eclipsenow · 2025-12-14T19:16:40-0600

keras said:
There is plenty of verses that prove that the Lords Christian peoples will go to live in all of the Holy Land. The culmination of the whole saga of the Middle East region.

I did not ask for you to repeat your whole thesis across this thread again - as if I had not read it before in 5 years of you doing this! (It's full of the very errors I have critiqued above.)

I asked you to go back and look at the EXACT verses I quoted in their EXACT context - and you refuse to do so.
Because if you acknowledge those prophecies were about THOSE nations - then what else is?
Because if the promises of returning to Jerusalem were to THAT generation a lifetime AFTER THAT exile - then what else is?

But you are right in that sometimes Isaiah refers to more future focussed, gospel focussed, sometimes eternally focussed realities.
And sometimes he does not! Sometimes he's reminding Israel of what is coming for them - there and then - with Assyria and Babylon. Context is a thing! So by the time we get to Isaiah 13 we've already been warned that Israel is going to be destroyed, and by whom.

Yet Isaiah 13 goes onto say that the instruments of God's judgement against Israel will themselves be judged.

13 A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
2 Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,
shout to them;
beckon to them
to enter the gates of the nobles.
3 I have commanded those I prepared for battle;
I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath—
those who rejoice in my triumph.
4 Listen, a noise on the mountains,
like that of a great multitude!
Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
like nations massing together!
The Lord Almighty is mustering
an army for war.
5 They come from faraway lands,
from the ends of the heavens—
the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—
to destroy the whole country.
6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
7 Because of this, all hands will go limp,
every heart will melt with fear.
8 Terror will seize them,
pain and anguish will grip them;
they will writhe like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at each other,
their faces aflame.
9 See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
they will all return to their own people,
they will flee to their native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
18 Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants,
nor will they look with compassion on children.
19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the pride and glory of the Babylonians,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
there no nomads will pitch their tents,
there no shepherds will rest their flocks.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about.
22 Hyenas will inhabit her strongholds,
jackals her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.

Babylon's destruction = Day of the Lord.
Babylon's destruction = rise of the Medes.
Bablyon's destruction = sun and moon and stars not giving their light.
Babylon's destruction = as thorough as God's DIRECT judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah - but through the Medes. (Persians.)

So given how clear this is, how do you know your other "Dark Sun" passages are about Isaiah's unimaginably far, far future - when here he is clearly writing about the Assyrians (in previous chapters) and Babylonians and Persians?

More on that context

keras · 2025-12-14T22:53:52-0600

eclipsenow said:
So given how clear this is, how do you know your other "Dark Sun" passages are about Isaiah's unimaginably far, far future - when here he is clearly writing about the Assyrians (in previous chapters) and Babylonians and Persians?

Because: other than the smoke from their rape and pillage, the sun was not darkened when the A's, B's and P's, conquered Israel and Judah.

When we see a specific Bible verse saying the sun and moon will do something unusual and unprecedented, as Isaiah 30:26a does, is it right to just fob it off as 'it must have happened in the past', or 'it's just allegorical and meaningless'. ?
People who do that are guilty of playing fast and loose with scripture. Making it suit their preconceived beliefs.

eclipsenow said:
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Note that they are NOT saying "Oh no - look what the sun has done!"
They're saying, "Oh no - GOD is here!"

The great Day of the wrath of God and the Lamb comes and people dive for cover. Why? Because they see the approaching mass exploded out from the sun. Ezekiel 21:7 is a verse which tells us how people will be terrified as they see what is about to strike. They wet their pants in terror.
Rev 6 never says the people actually see God on His Throne.
We too, are warned to get under shelter, from the extreme temperature, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis. Isaiah 26:20-21

Strong in Him · 2025-12-15T01:44:32-0600

keras said:
More pretentious tripe.

Why are you saying that God using a star to guide the Magi and appearing to Saul as a bright light from heaven, is pretentious tripe?

keras said:
When many Prophesies say the sun will be darkened on the Day the Lord sends His fiery wrath, a perfectly feasible occurrence; then why deny it?

Who said I was denying it?
Wouldn't the sun being darkened be a celestial sign?

keras said:
I was referring to the 24th Day of Kislev, mentioned 3 times by Haggai. Which was the 14th December 2025.
It is a significant day in history and yet to happen. Seems we have got away with it once again.

It's a significant day in history that has already happened many times. It is not "yet to happen", it happens once a year.
IF something is going to happen on that day in the future (big "if") then it hasn't yet been fulfilled. It's not about us "getting away with" anything.

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness

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