- Apr 7, 2014
- 2,954
- 819
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Zions New Children
- Thread starter keras
- Start date
eclipsenow
Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
- Dec 17, 2010
- 10,220
- 2,708
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- Married
Tick.
Tick.
Cross. (Bzzzzzzt!)
We Christian peoples are those who already occupy the Holy Lands - because the gospel has gone out into the whole earth.
GRACE
Jesus so over-fulfils the OT law and sacrificial system so that we no longer need a high priest or temple - because Jesus replaces them. In the same way, the promises to Abraham that his children would be God’s people living God’s way in God’s land - and that this would bless the whole world, is fulfilled in Jesus living as the perfect Israelite, dying in our place, forgiving our sins, rising to new life to show that it worked, giving us hope of a new creation (as his body ran by the rules of the new reality as a guarantee of what was to come.)
KINGDOM
Jesus said his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus rebukes the disciples when they ask about an ethno-religious state in Israel and gets them to focus on the gospel going out to ALL people - even enemies - even the ends of the earth! Acts 1:8.
SUPER-TEMPLE
He told the woman at the well that because he is the living water, where we worship would soon be irrelevant - as long as it was in Spirit and truth. John 4. Jesus IS the perfect temple where God and mankind meet in perfect incarnation. He is Ezekiel’s “super-temple” - with the living water rushing out to make a new creation! Ezekiel’s super-temple cannot be literal - in the vision he stands on a mountain higher than Jerusalem to see the whole thing and this mountain does not exist. Amillennial Interpretation of Ezekiel 40-48 | Monergism
Zechariah 14 also visualises a terrible earthquake coming from the Mount of Olives - and then living water spreading out to renew the world. But as we have seen, this is all fulfilled in Jesus. He said if they had faith, they could say to this mountain fall into the sea! It’s a reference to the fact that Jesus is the one who splits the mountains - who makes the temple irrelevant.
PRIESTHOOD
1 Peter 2 shows we are all the priesthood and holy nation. That fulfils the end of Zechariah 14 where everyday cooking items are like the most precious items in the temple - the sacred and secular are now both sanctified in Christian life. WE are now the temple of God. 1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19. We are the ‘one humanity’ made from both Jews and Gentiles. Ephesians 2
LAND
Hebrews 11 shows even Abraham himself and other patriarchs were not really aiming for ‘the land’ - but for heaven! “16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them."
Just as Zechariah reminds Israel that Jeremiah’s prophecies of a Messiah at the end of 70 years of exile can only be fulfilled if they remain obedient and keep the covenant, which reinterprets Jeremiah’s prophecies in the unfolding plan of God for Israel - so the gospel does for the Old Covenant but in much more dramatic and universal ways.
Hebrews 12 puts the final nail in the coffin of the idea of a special land. Just as Jesus told the woman at the well, we no longer worship from special places, but special hearts. Wherever we are, when we pray we are united as if we were all standing in Jerusalem itself! But the billion plus Christians alive today physically would not fit! (Forget any crowd crushes in the Muslim Haj - this would be apocalyptic!) But of course - this is the advantage of the New Testament reality of the ‘spiritualised’ gospel fulfilment of Old Testament concerns and promises. Everything is so much bigger!
Hebrews 12:22 “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.”
Upvote
0
- Feb 7, 2013
- 15,518
- 2,652
- 84
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
Jeremiah 32:6-15 The Lord tells Jeremiah to buy a field and hide the deed of purchase in a sealed jar, to be preserved for a long time to come.
Verse 30 Israel and Judah provoked My anger by their idolatry, therefore...
Verse 36 .... the Land is given over to the sword, famine and pestilence.
Verse 37-43 God’s people, all the Israelites of God, gathered from all the lands to which I banished them. They will be My people and I shall be their God. [They became Christians and prospered, as Jacob and Moses Prophesied]
Verse 44 Then, once again, property will be bought and sold.
I would love to think that sometime soon, that jar will be found and proof of the Holy Land ownership established forever. Psalms 37:29, Matthew 5:5
Upvote
0
Guojing
Well-Known Member
- Apr 11, 2019
- 13,379
- 1,422
- Country
- Singapore
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
See acts 2:16-21 and understand the meaning of the "day of the lord".to Israel.
It has a very specific meaning
You can also refer to 1 peter 1:3-9 for the last day trial he was telling Israel about, 1 peter was written at around the acts 8 time period.
Then 2 peter which was written near the end of peter life, he had to explain why that day of the lord did not arrive, and urge them to read Pauls ephistles for more info.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Feb 7, 2013
- 15,518
- 2,652
- 84
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
Zechariah 9:9-12 Rejoice with all your heart, Daughter of Zion. Your King is coming, mounted on a donkeys colt. He has won the victory.
The affirmation of Jesus as the King. He has conquered death.
He will banish all weapons of war and proclaim peace to the nations. His Rule will extend over all the earth.
As for My covenant people, I will free the captives. On this Day, I shall restore a double portion to you.
After His second coming – His Millennial rule. His faithful people gathered and blessed.
Zechariah 9:13-17 Judah and Ephraim, the sons of Zion – I have made you like a warriors sword, prepared for battle against the ungodly peoples.
Must be before His second coming, as weapons are prepared for battle.
Judah = the Jews. Ephraim = the 10 tribes scattered around the world.
The Lord will appear over them. [ Before His Glorious Return.]
His arrow will flash like lightning. [ A coronal mass ejection, sunstrike.]
The Lord will sound the trumpet and advance with the storm winds of the South. [The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. Ezekiel 20:47-48 ]
His troops will be protected, they will exult and destroy the enemy.
A great Day of battle, the evil neighbours of Israel destroyed. Jeremiah 12:14, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
On that Day, the Lord will save His people, like a flock. They will sparkle In His Land, like jewels in His crown.
After this event, all of His faithful Christian people will live in all of the holy Land.
What wealth is theirs! What beauty!
Plenty of good food and wine for all His people.
Reference; Revised English Bible, verses abridged.
The affirmation of Jesus as the King. He has conquered death.
He will banish all weapons of war and proclaim peace to the nations. His Rule will extend over all the earth.
As for My covenant people, I will free the captives. On this Day, I shall restore a double portion to you.
After His second coming – His Millennial rule. His faithful people gathered and blessed.
Zechariah 9:13-17 Judah and Ephraim, the sons of Zion – I have made you like a warriors sword, prepared for battle against the ungodly peoples.
Must be before His second coming, as weapons are prepared for battle.
Judah = the Jews. Ephraim = the 10 tribes scattered around the world.
The Lord will appear over them. [ Before His Glorious Return.]
His arrow will flash like lightning. [ A coronal mass ejection, sunstrike.]
The Lord will sound the trumpet and advance with the storm winds of the South. [The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath. Ezekiel 20:47-48 ]
His troops will be protected, they will exult and destroy the enemy.
A great Day of battle, the evil neighbours of Israel destroyed. Jeremiah 12:14, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
On that Day, the Lord will save His people, like a flock. They will sparkle In His Land, like jewels in His crown.
After this event, all of His faithful Christian people will live in all of the holy Land.
What wealth is theirs! What beauty!
Plenty of good food and wine for all His people.
Reference; Revised English Bible, verses abridged.
Upvote
0
- Feb 7, 2013
- 15,518
- 2,652
- 84
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
Apart from the fact that secular Jewish Israel opposes a Temple because of the strife it would cause, Bible Prophecy clearly states that the new Temple will be built by the Christian peoples. Zechariah 6:15, Isaiah 56:1-8, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Revelation 11:1-3, +
Jeremiah 8:5-12 Judah has no remorse or repentance, How can you say: We have the Law, when your scribes have falsified it? For all, high and low are out for ill-gotten gain, your prophets and rabbis are frauds, every one of them. This wicked race would rather die than live. They say: All is well; no, nothing is well, they will all fall with a great crash on the Day of Reckoning. You will be as dung spread on the ground. Then, I will give the Land to new owners.
THIS is scripture, believe it!
Upvote
0
eclipsenow
Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
- Dec 17, 2010
- 10,220
- 2,708
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- Married
Typical brushing aside of careful arguments and historical and biblical evidence.
Typical diversionary tactics to lead back to your own inevitable navel gazing conclusions.
That's absolutely false because the prophecies that were given centuries before in Deuteronomy were the ones being referenced by most of the prophets discussing destruction on Israel and the rebuilding of Israel a lifetime later. Not 35 lifetimes later as you would have it!
They often specifically named Assyria and Babylon, and the other smaller kingdoms around Israel.
These were fulfilled by the time of Jesus, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus walked around the streets of Jerusalem!
Diversionary tactic again.
See the above.
If Israel was not already rebuilt as the prophets said, how on earth was Jesus walking around in Israel and in Jerusalem and in the rebuilt temple?
It says obvious as the nose on our faces!
No we mustn't because MOST were fulfilled over 2,000 years ago.
I'm not gonna bother discussing various Old testament passages with you cos it never does any good.
Until you can explain how we know Jesus was actually the Messiah from Old testament prophecies - when you intentionally throw other ancient prophecies about Babylon thousands of years out of context - I'm not going to bother.
You don't even realise the consequences of your false teaching. The side effect is you undermine the very gospel itself by completely disregarding how the Old testament prophecies were meant to be read. Unless of course there's a prophecy about a little baby that is to be born in a manger in our generation? Should we follow that person?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Feb 7, 2013
- 15,518
- 2,652
- 84
- Country
- New Zealand
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
Your 'careful arguments'. simply don't cut it.
Your post #150, is directly below mine #149, where I quote Jeremiah 8:5-12. A Prophecy that is obviously unfulfilled.
Then the Holy Land was destroyed by the Romans. 70-135 AD.
That was part of Ezekiel 21:14 Prophecy, where the 'Sword of slaughter' will strike Jerusalem; the Jews three times. One/ Babylon, 2/ Rome and the third soon to come; from the Lord. As graphically described in Ezekiel 21:1-7
For sure; there will be consequences. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 explains it.
I read and understand the Prophesies as they are Written. I have a whole library shelf of reference books, like Herodotus, Gibbon, etc, to ascertain what has happened in ancient times. As I see it; most remain yet to happen.
That most people disagree with a future fulfilment of the Prophesies, this is because they have chosen to believe false teachings and the Lord has blinded them to the truths. Many scriptures confirm this. Matthew 11:25 is just one of them.
So it is difficult but not impossible to understand Gods plans for our future. Wait for the Day! Zephaniah 3:8
Upvote
0
eclipsenow
Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
- Dec 17, 2010
- 10,220
- 2,708
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Anglican
- Marital Status
- Married
What on earth are you TALKING about? It's OBVIOUSLY fulfilled.
Did you know archaeologists have discovered thousands of jars with baby bones and ashes in them from the babies the Israelites sacrificed to pagan gods? Do you know how the story ends? Have you even read the book through from start to finish, and read historical commentaries on it?
Did you know, in the very last chapters of Jeremiah where the king of Judah's sons are slaughtered before him and then his eyes are poked out (so that the last thing he ever saw was the death of his sons) - this whole awful general saga of Jerusalem being captured by horrible people doing horrible things is a fulfilment of Deuteronomy?
Our church covered Jeremiah recently. It's one of the biggest books of the bible - so they chose something like 7 representative passages - and quickly summarised a lot of the material in between. But one thing stood out. Amidst all the awful details of how Jerusalem was judged and starved for abandoning God, and the temple was sacked, and the king and his sons eventually executed - there's this one bit of hope.
The murdered prince's grandfather is kept alive!
Chapter 51 is how the book of Jeremiah ends.
31 In the thirty-seventh year of the exile of Jehoiachin king of Judah, in the year Awel-Marduk became king of Babylon, on the twenty-fifth day of the twelfth month, he released Jehoiachin king of Judah and freed him from prison. 32 He spoke kindly to him and gave him a seat of honor higher than those of the other kings who were with him in Babylon. 33 So Jehoiachin put aside his prison clothes and for the rest of his life ate regularly at the king’s table. 34 Day by day the king of Babylon gave Jehoiachin a regular allowance as long as he lived, till the day of his death.
That last detail is remarkable! Archaeologists have found the Babylonian ration tablets that confirm (to secular people) that this all happened!
It's like God winking at us through historical evidence. "See doubters - this happened!"
And why is it important?
Because the prince's grandfather - Jehoiachin - is how the line of David continued through all this much prophesied, much warned CATASTROPHE!
And you want to undermine all this and say "Oh just ignore all that - it doesn't fit my own end times table?"
How dare you?
Except Israel had ALREADY abandoned God in generations of apostasy and idol worship of the pagan gods, sacrificing their babies.
Except Israel had ALREADY been destroyed by the Assyrians and Babylonians.
Except Israel had ALREADY RETURNED as prophesied by Moses.
(They were returned roughly within a human lifetime - as the prophets YOU want to RIP out of context explained!)
These are the 3 fulfilments your chaotic navel-gazing timetable destroys and contradicts.
Your timetable fights the way the Old Testament hangs together in itself - over emphasising things that are already fulfilled as to do with OUR future - while undervaluing those rare passages that actually DO paint a picture of the last things.
Inconvenient, hey?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
