Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

Stopped_lurking · 2025-12-12T01:07:03-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I don't debate that way. I am aware that there are deceptive purposes in asking questions instead of proposing counter arguments, in a debate.

Those reasons are:

1) To see if the person can answer?
2) To prove that the person cannot answer.

...I'm not playing that game. I am only into arguments and counter arguments.

What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-12T01:24:19-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

Same in Finland. And oh boy is it looking bad for the right for election time next year currently thanks to how they've handled the economy.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T02:07:02-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

Oh, you don't shift all your teachers... i think you're being intentionally obtuse. I don't really have time to repeat myself, others can see what I said, and form their own opinions. I have no reason to persuade you.

High Fidelity · 2025-12-12T02:30:41-0600

Europe is being invaded by Muslims. There's really no other way to put it.

It has to end. I don't agree with Trump on everything, but I'd rather leaders be bullish with solutions than weak.

Elections in the next few years in Europe will no doubt see right-wing parties surge and, hopefully, mass deportations. This is a generational issue, and if it isn't fixed very soon then it's just going to snowball.

Stopped_lurking · 2025-12-12T02:37:06-0600

Landon Caeli said:
Oh, you don't shift all your teachers... i think you're being intentionally obtuse. I don't really have time to repeat myself, others can see what I said, and form their own opinions. I have no reason to persuade you.

The interested reader will of course draw their own conclusions, that is a given. But on the face of it your argument seems to be wrong, as the policy determining body shifts much faster than the teachers. So I would believe there is at least some unstated premises in your argument, if it is not flat-out wrong.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-12-12T07:50:47-0600

7thKeeper said:
Same in Finland. And oh boy is it looking bad for the right for election time next year currently thanks to how they've handled the economy.

My sister-in-law and her husband are both graduates of Teknillinen korkeakoulu-Tekniska högskolan, and each completed a PhD at Aalto University. My wife's nephew is planning to begin his master's studies at TKK next year. You truly have an excellent education system.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-12T09:13:47-0600

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
My sister-in-law and her husband are both graduates of Teknillinen korkeakoulu-Tekniska högskolan, and each completed a PhD at Aalto University. My wife's nephew is planning to begin his master's studies at TKK next year. You truly have an excellent education system.

Really? I graduated from TKK as well, got my Masters there. Was planning on staying for PhD first but then decided to take up a job offer I got.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T11:10:23-0600

Stopped_lurking said:
The interested reader will of course draw their own conclusions, that is a given. But on the face of it your argument seems to be wrong, as the policy determining body shifts much faster than the teachers. So I would believe there is at least some unstated premises in your argument, if it is not flat-out wrong.

To me, what the following link describes is an issue, in Europe, of political interference, at Universities, according to the 4th Monitoring Report on Academic Freedom. https://share.google/R581cZcgFXsMxCZxf

Evidence of a serious problem:
(PDF) Are universities left‐wing bastions? The political orientation of professors, professionals, and managers in Europe https://share.google/Dhi4MkEkP0zn34rDj

The following article shows in plain light, the attempt to analyze and pursue a direct framework for public opinion. Which has a serious backfiring effect:
Education and ideological polarisation: Cross‐country evidence and recommendations for higher education - Lee - 2025 - British Educational Research Journal - Wiley Online Library https://share.google/LxSqdmSZj8oNblKJA

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T11:17:42-0600

7thKeeper said:
Really? I graduated from TKK as well, got my Masters there. Was planning on staying for PhD first but then decided to take up a job offer I got.

According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T11:23:11-0600

We talked earlier about George W Bush (Yale, Harvard attendee) being an ideologue in regards to globalization and Social Justice, and we've watched those ideological aspects increase into the current wokism (birthed on college campuses) of today, leading to Donald Trump...

Perhaps it's time to consider our options in how we educate, and how those with higher education, including teachers, affect our young, and decide if political/ideological activism in education is snowballing out of control, and creating increased polarization.

With the topic of this discussion, we see Europe doing all the same at their Universities as it is in America, like a mirror image, and so, aside from which side of the Atlantic it originated from (I believe Europe) we see the prevention of differences in opinion and a lack of free speech being forced onto X, and we see Europe putting wokism into overdrive, doubling down on the pathway to total polarization not only in their own region, but in ours as well.

Hans Blaster · 2025-12-12T11:53:52-0600

Landon Caeli said:
According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

Landon Caeli said:
We talked earlier about George W Bush (Yale, Harvard attendee) being an ideologue in regards to globalization and Social Justice, and we've watched those ideological aspects increase into the current wokism (birthed on college campuses) of today, leading to Donald Trump...

Perhaps it's time to consider our options in how we educate, and how those with higher education, including teachers, affect our young, and decide if political/ideological activism in education is snowballing out of control, and creating increased polarization.

You can't put increased polarization (splitting of opinions with little in the middle) and strong political bias (pushing towards one end of politics) on the same thing (higher education). Such does not compute.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T12:13:58-0600

Hans Blaster said:
You can't put increased polarization (splitting of opinions with little in the middle) and strong political bias (pushing towards one end of politics) on the same thing (higher education). Such does not compute.

If Universities are of the mindset that liberal policies are the cure for all societal ills, by and large, the polarization comes into existence by those who push back. Those who push back are then drilled even harder, to force them to understand "the right way", which causes them push back again, resulting in an increasing polarization effect.

I think that's understandable.

Hans Blaster · 2025-12-12T12:34:13-0600

Landon Caeli said:
If Universities are of the mindset that liberal policies are the cure for all societal ills, by and large, the polarization comes into existence by those who push back. Those who push back are then drilled even harder, to force them to understand "the right way", which causes them push back again, resulting in an increasing polarization effect.

what?

Landon Caeli said:
I think that's understandable.

It is nonsense.

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T12:42:46-0600

Hans Blaster said:
what?

It is nonsense.

I already provided evidence supporting my claims, by The Council of Europe, Research Gate, and the British Educational Research Journal. Here they are again:

https://www.coe.int/en/web/education/-/academic-freedom-under-threat-council-of-europe-calls-for-stronger-protection-at-high-level-stoa-conference

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337875925_Are_universities_left-wing_bastions_The_political_orientation_of_professors_professionals_and_managers_in_Europe

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.4081#:~:text=Abstract,and%20recommendations%20for%20higher%20education.

Hans Blaster · 2025-12-12T13:00:05-0600

Landon Caeli said:
I already provided evidence supporting my claims, by The Council of Europe, Research Gate, and the British Educational Research Journal. Here they are again:

https://www.coe.int/en/web/education/-/academic-freedom-under-threat-council-of-europe-calls-for-stronger-protection-at-high-level-stoa-conference

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337875925_Are_universities_left-wing_bastions_The_political_orientation_of_professors_professionals_and_managers_in_Europe

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.4081#:~:text=Abstract,and%20recommendations%20for%20higher%20education.

It's not the data (which I haven't read), it's the reasoning. "Because you disagree with me I have to be more extreme" is not good reasoning. [BTW, "researchgate" is not a source. It is a website where researchers post things. Kind of like "google docs". If it is a legit academic work there is a journal listed somewhere. (The same goes for PubMed, not a publisher or journal.)]

Landon Caeli · 2025-12-12T13:35:50-0600

Hans Blaster said:
It's not the data (which I haven't read), it's the reasoning. "Because you disagree with me I have to be more extreme" is not good reasoning. [BTW, "researchgate" is not a source. It is a website where researchers post things. Kind of like "google docs". If it is a legit academic work there is a journal listed somewhere. (The same goes for PubMed, not a publisher or journal.)]

Maybe you're correct. Maybe polarization Isn't even really the problem. I mean, why would it be?

Maybe the problem is excessive activism.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-12T14:13:07-0600

Landon Caeli said:
According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

Now the link I provided previously showed the reasons for the fine X received. Could you explain to me why you think that Twitter pre-Elon would have fall afoul of regulations that weren't then in place, or more importantly why this is supposedly somehow the EU being against free speech? We know the exact reasons behind the fine.

Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

Should the EU stay together?

Yes, absolutely, because the whole entire world benefits from a united Europe

No

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Stonecutter no. 51

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Stonecutter no. 51

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