Trump’s team sees Europe’s ‘erasure.’

[Stopped_lurking]

I don't debate that way. I am aware that there are deceptive purposes in asking questions instead of proposing counter arguments, in a debate.

Those reasons are:

1) To see if the person can answer?
2) To prove that the person cannot answer.

...I'm not playing that game. I am only into arguments and counter arguments.

What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

 

[7thKeeper]

What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

Same in Finland. And oh boy is it looking bad for the right for election time next year currently thanks to how they've handled the economy.

 

[Landon Caeli]

What is your argument then, that we can see where Europe is headed by looking at the universities? That is too broad, and I'm not certain what commonalities you see across different countries in Europe. I asked questions to get to the specifics of what you want to discuss.

It doesn't seem to be borne out in reality either, in Sweden we switch between a right-wing or left-wing government quite often (every election or every other election). We don't shift out all the teachers between elections. It has been like this since 1991, shifting back and forth.

Oh, you don't shift all your teachers... i think you're being intentionally obtuse. I don't really have time to repeat myself, others can see what I said, and form their own opinions. I have no reason to persuade you.

 

[High Fidelity]

Europe is being invaded by Muslims. There's really no other way to put it.

It has to end. I don't agree with Trump on everything, but I'd rather leaders be bullish with solutions than weak.

Elections in the next few years in Europe will no doubt see right-wing parties surge and, hopefully, mass deportations. This is a generational issue, and if it isn't fixed very soon then it's just going to snowball.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Oh, you don't shift all your teachers... i think you're being intentionally obtuse. I don't really have time to repeat myself, others can see what I said, and form their own opinions. I have no reason to persuade you.

The interested reader will of course draw their own conclusions, that is a given. But on the face of it your argument seems to be wrong, as the policy determining body shifts much faster than the teachers. So I would believe there is at least some unstated premises in your argument, if it is not flat-out wrong.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Same in Finland. And oh boy is it looking bad for the right for election time next year currently thanks to how they've handled the economy.

My sister-in-law and her husband are both graduates of Teknillinen korkeakoulu-Tekniska högskolan, and each completed a PhD at Aalto University. My wife's nephew is planning to begin his master's studies at TKK next year. You truly have an excellent education system.

 

[7thKeeper]

My sister-in-law and her husband are both graduates of Teknillinen korkeakoulu-Tekniska högskolan, and each completed a PhD at Aalto University. My wife's nephew is planning to begin his master's studies at TKK next year. You truly have an excellent education system.

Really? I graduated from TKK as well, got my Masters there. Was planning on staying for PhD first but then decided to take up a job offer I got.

 

[Landon Caeli]

The interested reader will of course draw their own conclusions, that is a given. But on the face of it your argument seems to be wrong, as the policy determining body shifts much faster than the teachers. So I would believe there is at least some unstated premises in your argument, if it is not flat-out wrong.

To me, what the following link describes is an issue, in Europe, of political interference, at Universities, according to the 4th Monitoring Report on Academic Freedom. https://share.google/R581cZcgFXsMxCZxf

Evidence of a serious problem:
(PDF) Are universities left‐wing bastions? The political orientation of professors, professionals, and managers in Europe https://share.google/Dhi4MkEkP0zn34rDj

The following article shows in plain light, the attempt to analyze and pursue a direct framework for public opinion. Which has a serious backfiring effect:
Education and ideological polarisation: Cross‐country evidence and recommendations for higher education - Lee - 2025 - British Educational Research Journal - Wiley Online Library https://share.google/LxSqdmSZj8oNblKJA

 

[Landon Caeli]

Really? I graduated from TKK as well, got my Masters there. Was planning on staying for PhD first but then decided to take up a job offer I got.

According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

 

[Landon Caeli]

We talked earlier about George W Bush (Yale, Harvard attendee) being an ideologue in regards to globalization and Social Justice, and we've watched those ideological aspects increase into the current wokism (birthed on college campuses) of today, leading to Donald Trump...

Perhaps it's time to consider our options in how we educate, and how those with higher education, including teachers, affect our young, and decide if political/ideological activism in education is snowballing out of control, and creating increased polarization.

With the topic of this discussion, we see Europe doing all the same at their Universities as it is in America, like a mirror image, and so, aside from which side of the Atlantic it originated from (I believe Europe) we see the prevention of differences in opinion and a lack of free speech being forced onto X, and we see Europe putting wokism into overdrive, doubling down on the pathway to total polarization not only in their own region, but in ours as well.

 

[Hans Blaster]

According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

We talked earlier about George W Bush (Yale, Harvard attendee) being an ideologue in regards to globalization and Social Justice, and we've watched those ideological aspects increase into the current wokism (birthed on college campuses) of today, leading to Donald Trump...

Perhaps it's time to consider our options in how we educate, and how those with higher education, including teachers, affect our young, and decide if political/ideological activism in education is snowballing out of control, and creating increased polarization.

You can't put increased polarization (splitting of opinions with little in the middle) and strong political bias (pushing towards one end of politics) on the same thing (higher education). Such does not compute.

 

[Landon Caeli]

You can't put increased polarization (splitting of opinions with little in the middle) and strong political bias (pushing towards one end of politics) on the same thing (higher education). Such does not compute.

If Universities are of the mindset that liberal policies are the cure for all societal ills, by and large, the polarization comes into existence by those who push back. Those who push back are then drilled even harder, to force them to understand "the right way", which causes them push back again, resulting in an increasing polarization effect.

I think that's understandable.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If Universities are of the mindset that liberal policies are the cure for all societal ills, by and large, the polarization comes into existence by those who push back. Those who push back are then drilled even harder, to force them to understand "the right way", which causes them push back again, resulting in an increasing polarization effect.

what?

I think that's understandable.

It is nonsense.

 

[Landon Caeli]

what?

It is nonsense.

I already provided evidence supporting my claims, by The Council of Europe, Research Gate, and the British Educational Research Journal. Here they are again:

https://www.coe.int/en/web/education/-/academic-freedom-under-threat-council-of-europe-calls-for-stronger-protection-at-high-level-stoa-conference

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337875925_Are_universities_left-wing_bastions_The_political_orientation_of_professors_professionals_and_managers_in_Europe

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.4081#:~:text=Abstract,and%20recommendations%20for%20higher%20education.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I already provided evidence supporting my claims, by The Council of Europe, Research Gate, and the British Educational Research Journal. Here they are again:

https://www.coe.int/en/web/education/-/academic-freedom-under-threat-council-of-europe-calls-for-stronger-protection-at-high-level-stoa-conference

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337875925_Are_universities_left-wing_bastions_The_political_orientation_of_professors_professionals_and_managers_in_Europe

https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.4081#:~:text=Abstract,and%20recommendations%20for%20higher%20education.

It's not the data (which I haven't read), it's the reasoning. "Because you disagree with me I have to be more extreme" is not good reasoning. [BTW, "researchgate" is not a source. It is a website where researchers post things. Kind of like "google docs". If it is a legit academic work there is a journal listed somewhere. (The same goes for PubMed, not a publisher or journal.)]

 

[Landon Caeli]

It's not the data (which I haven't read), it's the reasoning. "Because you disagree with me I have to be more extreme" is not good reasoning. [BTW, "researchgate" is not a source. It is a website where researchers post things. Kind of like "google docs". If it is a legit academic work there is a journal listed somewhere. (The same goes for PubMed, not a publisher or journal.)]

Maybe you're correct. Maybe polarization Isn't even really the problem. I mean, why would it be?

Maybe the problem is excessive activism.

 

[7thKeeper]

According to current research, higher education may lead to increased political and ideological polarization. It might explain why people feel the need to be so outspoken, and unshakable in their politics, like any kind of indoctrination would lead to.

The links in the above post might help in understanding this - and do consider that it might be a widespread problem.

Now the link I provided previously showed the reasons for the fine X received. Could you explain to me why you think that Twitter pre-Elon would have fall afoul of regulations that weren't then in place, or more importantly why this is supposedly somehow the EU being against free speech? We know the exact reasons behind the fine.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Now the link I provided previously showed the reasons for the fine X received. Could you explain to me why you think that Twitter pre-Elon would have fall afoul of regulations that weren't then in place, or more importantly why this is supposedly somehow the EU being against free speech? We know the exact reasons behind the fine.

No, it seems like you were correct.

But it's against the rules to copy and paste an entire article, so I could only offer a couple snippets as a sample for this discussion. I regret choosing those two snippets.

Read the article. There's a lot more involved.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

To me, what the following link describes is an issue, in Europe, of political interference, at Universities, according to the 4th Monitoring Report on Academic Freedom. https://share.google/R581cZcgFXsMxCZxf

It is a potential problem everywhere, here is the actual reports (Academic Freedom Monitor 2024: Overview of de jure academic freedom protection | Panel for the Future of Science and Technology (STOA) | European Parliament and Academic Freedom Monitor 2024: Analysis of de facto state of academic freedom in the EU - Country overview | Panel for the Future of Science and Technology (STOA) | European Parliament ), read them and realize that it is variable across the EU member states with Hungary being most problematic. Table taken from the de facto report (second link).

Here you can find the AFI scores for other countries: https://academic-freedom-index.net/research/Academic_Freedom_Index_Update_2025.pdf

Let’s just say that the EU as a whole is not perfect but doing well, status A is seen as complete complete academic freedom.

Evidence of a serious problem:
(PDF) Are universities left‐wing bastions? The political orientation of professors, professionals, and managers in Europe https://share.google/Dhi4MkEkP0zn34rDj

This is the direct measurement of left-right selfplacement from the article below (it is from the ESS dataset I think), the numbers are after standardization so they have mean 0 and variance 1, higher value indicates left-leaning selfdescription. The article and figure contains alot of other information, but this part is consistent with conclusions.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-4446.12716

So professors are a little more left-leaning than other professionals, but the differences within the group are as big as for other professionals. It is not an homogenous group.

The following article shows in plain light, the attempt to analyze and pursue a direct framework for public opinion. Which has a serious backfiring effect:
Education and ideological polarisation: Cross‐country evidence and recommendations for higher education - Lee - 2025 - British Educational Research Journal - Wiley Online Library https://share.google/LxSqdmSZj8oNblKJA

The article (https://bera-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/berj.4081#:~:text=Abstract,and recommendations for higher education.
) shows that the polarization in Europe is variable and for most countries less than what they report for the US see the slope numbers in Table 1.

Below is the post that started this discussion, how are the reports and articles you presented connected to it? None of them includes a meaningful time series, so how can we say things are changing in any direction?

The difference is that policy lags behind. We can see where things are headed, in the near future, by looking at the Universities, and the kinds of clubs, societies, programs and mood shifts within them. Policy might take 5 or more years to catch-up, but it eventually does. I think it can be figured out right here, where Europe is headed, but it's not going to be a simple task. We'll have to put in the time, together.

Universities teach the grade/high school teachers, who, in turn, teach the children. This is the catalyst for widespread political and ideological change in any given society. And it doesn't take long.

 

[7thKeeper]

No, it seems like you were correct.

But it's against the rules to copy and paste an entire article, so I could only offer a couple snippets as a sample for this discussion. I regret choosing those two snippets.

Read the article. There's a lot more involved.

I have never once referred to the article in my posts, I even copied the exact reasons for the fine in a quote here in the first post I made and several times pointed out they were there. There's nothing else behind this fine, except X not abiding by regulations in a market where they operate. It's just Elon crying that he can't do whatever he wants.