Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

1. 1 Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
38. II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
39. II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
    
    In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:
40. Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”
41. Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”
    
    In the Psalms, death is a sleep:
42. Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”
43. Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”
    
    Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:
44. Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”
    
    Jesus described death as “sleep”:
45. Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”
46. Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”
47. Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”
48. John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”
    
    At Jesus’ crucifixion:
49. Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”
    
    Luke reiterates I Kings:
50. Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”
    
    Paul describes death as sleep:
51. I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”
52. I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”
53. I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”
54. I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

1. 1 Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
38. II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
39. II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
    
    In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:
40. Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”
41. Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”
    
    In the Psalms, death is a sleep:
42. Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”
43. Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”
    
    Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:
44. Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”
    
    Jesus described death as “sleep”:
45. Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”
46. Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”
47. Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”
48. John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”
    
    At Jesus’ crucifixion:
49. Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”
    
    Luke reiterates I Kings:
50. Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”
    
    Paul describes death as sleep:
51. I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”
52. I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”
53. I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”
54. I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

eleos1954 said:

It's not my private interpetation i


No it's not opinion ... it's from scripture

1. 1 Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
38. II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
39. II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
    
    In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:
40. Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”
41. Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”
    
    In the Psalms, death is a sleep:
42. Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”
43. Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”
    
    Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:
44. Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”
    
    Jesus described death as “sleep”:
45. Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”
46. Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”
47. Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”
48. John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”
    
    At Jesus’ crucifixion:
49. Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”
    
    Luke reiterates I Kings:
50. Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”
    
    Paul describes death as sleep:
51. I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”
52. I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”
53. I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”
54. I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

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eleos1954 said:

No it's not opinion ... it's from scripture .... look them up yourself

1. 1 Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”
2. II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""
3. I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”
4. I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”
5. I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”
6. I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”
7. I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”
8. I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”
9. I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”
10. I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”
11. I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”
12. I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”
13. I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”
14. I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”
15. II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”
16. II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”
17. II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”
18. II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”
19. II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”
20. II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”
21. II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”
22. II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”
23. II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”
24. II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
25. II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
26. II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
27. II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
28. II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”
29. II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”
30. II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”
31. II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”
32. II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”
33. II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”
34. II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”
35. II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”
36. II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”
37. II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”
38. II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”
39. II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”
    
    In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:
40. Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”
41. Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”
    
    In the Psalms, death is a sleep:
42. Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”
43. Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”
    
    Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:
44. Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”
    
    Jesus described death as “sleep”:
45. Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”
46. Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”
47. Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”
48. John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”
    
    At Jesus’ crucifixion:
49. Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”
    
    Luke reiterates I Kings:
50. Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”
    
    Paul describes death as sleep:
51. I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”
52. I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”
53. I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”
54. I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

The corresponding scriptures are noted ... ignore them if you want.

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Acts 7:59-60 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” Then he fell on his knees and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” H | New American Standard Bible - NASB

They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” Then he fell on his knees and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” H

bible.com

2PhiloVoid said:

This particular forum is, and has never been, a discussion about 'Universalism.' In fact, NO ONE here is advocating for it. It's good to be clear on what the actual focus point is.

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Dan1988 said:

My Minister, is appointed by the Lord, to teach me, to lead me and to watch over me, just as a Shepherd watches over his flock. The Lord raised him up and ordained him for this purpose, so I am obliged to submit myself to his authority because he is responsible to God for my soul.

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Dan1988 said:

Being a member of the Body of Christ, means that I'm a sheep and my Minister is the Shepherd. So I don't have the authority to challenge his teaching, so when He instructs me to have no fellowship with those who reject the gospel, then I must obey or, face disciplinarily action, including excommunication.

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Dan1988 said:

To understand what the Lord Jesus meant by saying "love your enemy", you first need to understand what the word "love" means. I'd suggest you do a bible study on what it means, but I'll just give you a brief overview here>>>

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 "Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things".

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Dan1988 said:

I still don't know what point you were trying to make,

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Dan1988 said:

I'm not sure what you believe about tithes and offering in the Church, but I can tell you that God takes this Church ordinance very seriously.

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2PhiloVoid said:

And you would be extremely wrong to think that philosophy is, in whole, mutually exclusive to Christian theology.

You might want to keep in mind that, actually, the undertaking of biblical systematic theology REQUIRES the application of some points of the wide (very, very wide) field of Philosophy.

You would be right to say that I don't hold to Sola Scriptura, and I'd go on record to in fact say that in order to be saved, no one needs to. God is bigger than the rag tag collection of letters and books we call the New Testament, after all, and I'll continue to take my measures for what constitutes 'good theology' from many Christian scholars (and ministers) rather than ................... only one local minister.

And in saying all of the above, I'll continue on in my viewpoint and do so with the same outlook and attitude of Copernicus who said, and I quote, "There may be babblers, wholly ignorant of mathematics, who dare to condemn my hypothesis, upon the authority of some part of the Bible twisted to suit their purpose. I value them not, and scorn their unfounded judgment.”


I beg to differ on this point. How can anyone have "sound theology" by believing in a social bubble, with little or no education in the area of Hermeneutics, Biblical Exegesis, and Church History??? ............ by special pleading about one's special, personal revelations or by the special abilities of one's singular local minister? I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously. I never said salvation is exactly congruent with "how well" we know the Scriptures. It's also not exactly congruent with a set of presuppositions attuned solely and only to, shall we say, a more Calvinistic leaning.


And neither is God impressed with anyone's SPIRITUAL ZEAL that persists without KNOWLEDGE.

Well then, with that, have a Merry Christmas!

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Dan1988 said:

I don't understand why you're having such great difficulty in distinguishing the difference between the Lord Jesus who said He is the Truth, and fact about nature. It's as though you've lumped the Lord Jesus, together with His creatin. I'm sure you know that the Lord Jesus created everything that exists, but He's not a part of any created thing, He is separate and outside of His creation.

The sun is a thing, it only serves the purpose it was created for, but it is an inanimate object and it is truly dead. It must obey The Lord Jesus, so it is governed by the fact that it must rise and set at the same time everyday. That is a fact, no different to any other fact which the created order must obey. But the Lord is the Truth, He is not a fact!!!

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Dan1988 said:

Here's why I keep well away from Philosophy, Psychology, secular science or anything else that is based on mans wisdom.

Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death".

I'm never going to die again, once was enough, so why would I dabble in witchcraft or sorcery.

Philosophy has nothing to offer Born again believers, neither do the Shepherds of other flocks. Why would I turn my back on my Shepherd, to go after other Shepherds or worse still, Philosophers.

Here's what the bible says about those who do this.

Judges 2:17 "And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so."

I don't want to be like those who go whoring after other gods. God hands them over to the false gods and they are lost.

"Sola Scriptura" is Gods Living Word. It is the power to save, in fact it's the only way we can learn about who God is. Everyone who is saved and everyone who will be saved, is saved by the same old gospel. So the Bible is not a rag tag bunch of ancient weightings. It's Gods Living Word.

If you try to add anything to the simplicity of the Bible, then you will be swept away by every wind of doctrine.

There is only one way to learn, sound theology. And that is, you must be indwelt by the holy Spirit, (He leads Gods people, into all truth).

Those who are not lead by the Hoy Spirit, will surely fall for Satan's deception. He deceived Adam and Eve, and they were much wiser, than anyone today, but Satan is far wiser than any man, so deceiving unprotected men is super easy for Him.

It's getting close to midnight, so I'm goanna sign out for now, and I'm going to wish you a blessed Christmas, instead of a merry one. I think "merry" happy and the worlds gets happy after they have consumed some kind of external/artificial substance.

My sheppherd forbids any type of drugs or alcohol or any other type of sinful activities. My Church still has a Christmas party and a new years eve party. We still have great fun without abusing any substance's

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Mark Quayle said:

What is currently called Calvinism didn't start with Calvin.

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2PhiloVoid said:

Oh, ok. Please excuse me, then, while I go burn my Philosophy degree diploma.................................

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2PhiloVoid said:

And you would be extremely wrong to think that philosophy is, in whole, mutually exclusive to Christian theology.

You might want to keep in mind that, actually, the undertaking of biblical systematic theology REQUIRES the application of some points of the wide (very, very wide) field of Philosophy.

You would be right to say that I don't hold to Sola Scriptura, and I'd go on record to in fact say that in order to be saved, no one needs to. God is bigger than the rag tag collection of letters and books we call the New Testament, after all, and I'll continue to take my measures for what constitutes 'good theology' from many Christian scholars (and ministers) rather than ................... only one local minister.

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